Clinton's seizure during Fox News Sunday interview

[warpedskydiver 0]

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The one thing we can count on from the Dems is a swift retreat of
> our troops within our own boarders in hopes they will leave us all
> alone.

The one thing we _know_ we can count on from republicans is a lot more coffins. When that's your default, any new option starts to sound better.

Yeah Bill.........I'd much rather YOU be fighting terrorists at the mall in your home town than our soldiers doing it 7000 miles OUTSIDE the US.

Clay don't you know that all it takes is some martial arts classes to combat terrorism?

[Channman 2]

> Funny - several of the democrats running in this election are recently returned Iraq and Afghanistan vets. It would be interesting to hear the ensuing conversation if you told them they were not interested in fighting the war on terror.

These few individuals may well be strong on defence of our Nation with respect to the war on terror.

However if elected they would be brought into line by their Dem. Leadership, for a quick "RETREAT", phrased as redeployment with Jack, Nancy, Harry, Teddy, Chucky, Charles, .....list is far to long to write here leading the way.

>The one thing we _know_ we can count on from republicans is a lot more coffins.

Without going through a large list here as well, the Dems have been very much responsible for almost three thousand coffins in a single day.

Running from those who want to kill you only makes you safe for alittle while. Facing them and removing them as a threat can give you peace that can last for many years.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Yeah Bill.........I'd much rather YOU be fighting terrorists at the mall in your home town than our soldiers doing it 7000 miles OUTSIDE the US.

Scary how many people believe those two to be mutuallyexcuslive. Fear is such a strong motivator.

[freeflir29 0]

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Scary how many people believe those two to be mutuallyexcuslive.

I find the "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" crowd pretty alarming myself. "If we just hide and pretend they don't exist nothing bad will happen.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I find the "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" crowd pretty alarming myself. "If we just hide and pretend they don't exist nothing bad will happen.

Of course there are all kinds of options in between.....your problem is that only one scenario has you making a mint as a mercenary.

[Amazon 7]

I love it when people backpeddle away from the talking points that they have been spouting for YEARS that I have known them.


Oh I SOOOO hope the Christian Science Monitor is on their approved reading list since we need to send them back to Neo Con 101. ( God forbid we get some unapproved link since they would never read anything from there) With so much quacking around here there must b e a few DUCKS in the house.

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

Neocon 101

Some basic questions answered.

What do neoconservatives believe?
"Neocons" believe that the United States should not be ashamed to use its unrivaled power – forcefully if necessary – to promote its values around the world. Some even speak of the need to cultivate a US empire. Neoconservatives believe modern threats facing the US can no longer be reliably contained and therefore must be prevented, sometimes through preemptive military action.

Most neocons believe that the US has allowed dangers to gather by not spending enough on defense and not confronting threats aggressively enough. One such threat, they contend, was Saddam Hussein and his pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. Since the 1991 Gulf War, neocons relentlessly advocated Mr. Hussein's ouster.

Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel, which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region. They also see Israel as a key outpost of democracy in a region ruled by despots. Believing that authoritarianism and theocracy have allowed anti-Americanism to flourish in the Middle East, neocons advocate the democratic transformation of the region, starting with Iraq. They also believe the US is unnecessarily hampered by multilateral institutions, which they do not trust to effectively neutralize threats to global security.

What are the roots of neoconservative beliefs?
The original neocons were a small group of mostly Jewish liberal intellectuals who, in the 1960s and 70s, grew disenchanted with what they saw as the American left's social excesses and reluctance to spend adequately on defense. Many of these neocons worked in the 1970s for Democratic Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a staunch anti-communist. By the 1980s, most neocons had become Republicans, finding in President Ronald Reagan an avenue for their aggressive approach of confronting the Soviet Union with bold rhetoric and steep hikes in military spending. After the Soviet Union's fall, the neocons decried what they saw as American complacency. In the 1990s, they warned of the dangers of reducing both America's defense spending and its role in the world.

Unlike their predecessors, most younger neocons never experienced being left of center. They've always been "Reagan" Republicans.

What is the difference between a neoconservative and a conservative?

Liberals first applied the "neo" prefix to their comrades who broke ranks to become more conservative in the 1960s and 70s. The defectors remained more liberal on some domestic policy issues. But foreign policy stands have always defined neoconservatism. Where other conservatives favored détente and containment of the Soviet Union, neocons pushed direct confrontation, which became their raison d'etre during the 1970s and 80s.

Today, both conservatives and neocons favor a robust US military. But most conservatives express greater reservations about military intervention and so-called nation building. Neocons share no such reluctance. The post 9/11-campaigns against regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq demonstrate that the neocons are not afraid to force regime change and reshape hostile states in the American image. Neocons believe the US must do to whatever it takes to end state-supported terrorism. For most, this means an aggressive push for democracy in the Middle East. Even after 9/11, many other conservatives, particularly in the isolationist wing, view this as an overzealous dream with nightmarish consequences.

How have neoconservatives influenced US foreign policy?

Finding a kindred spirit in President Reagan, neocons greatly influenced US foreign policy in the 1980s.

But in the 1990s, neocon cries failed to spur much action. Outside of Reaganite think tanks and Israel's right-wing Likud Party, their calls for regime change in Iraq were deemed provocative and extremist by the political mainstream. With a few notable exceptions, such as President Bill Clinton's decision to launch isolated strikes at suspected terrorist targets in Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998, their talk of preemptive military action was largely dismissed as overkill.

Despite being muted by a president who called for restraint and humility in foreign affairs, neocons used the 1990s to hone their message and craft their blueprint for American power. Their forward thinking and long-time ties to Republican circles helped many neocons win key posts in the Bush administration.

The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 moved much of the Bush administration closer than ever to neoconservative foreign policy. Only days after 9/11, one of the top neoconservative think tanks in Washington, the Project for a New American Century, wrote an open letter to President Bush calling for regime change in Iraq. Before long, Bush, who campaigned in 2000 against nation building and excessive military intervention overseas, also began calling for regime change in Iraq. In a highly significant nod to neocon influence, Bush chose the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) as the venue for a key February 2003 speech in which he declared that a US victory in Iraq "could begin a new stage for Middle Eastern peace." AEI – the de facto headquarters for neconservative policy – had been calling for democratization of the Arab world for more than a decade.

What does a neoconservative dream world look like?

Neocons envision a world in which the United States is the unchallenged superpower, immune to threats. They believe that the US has a responsibility to act as a "benevolent global hegemon." In this capacity, the US would maintain an empire of sorts by helping to create democratic, economically liberal governments in place of "failed states" or oppressive regimes they deem threatening to the US or its interests. In the neocon dream world the entire Middle East would be democratized in the belief that this would eliminate a prime breeding ground for terrorists. This approach, they claim, is not only best for the US; it is best for the world. In their view, the world can only achieve peace through strong US leadership backed with credible force, not weak treaties to be disrespected by tyrants.

Any regime that is outwardly hostile to the US and could pose a threat would be confronted aggressively, not "appeased" or merely contained. The US military would be reconfigured around the world to allow for greater flexibility and quicker deployment to hot spots in the Middle East, as well as Central and Southeast Asia. The US would spend more on defense, particularly for high-tech, precision weaponry that could be used in preemptive strikes. It would work through multilateral institutions such as the United Nations when possible, but must never be constrained from acting in its best interests whenever necessary.

[freeflir29 0]

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your problem is that only one scenario has you making a mint as a mercenary.

Now is about the time you need to shut the fuck up.

[micro 0]

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I find the "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" crowd pretty alarming myself. "If we just hide and pretend they don't exist nothing bad will happen.

Of course there are all kinds of options in between.....your problem is that only one scenario has you making a mint as a mercenary.

easy there fella...

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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easy there fella...

Why....didn't say anything wrong....

[micro 0]

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easy there fella...

Why....didn't say anything wrong....

then by all means, keep on flappin.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Done "flappin" on the subject. Just pointing out he has some inherrent benefit to continuing the status quo, which would in all likelihood bias his view on the underlying political situation.

[mnealtx 0]

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your problem is that only one scenario has you making a mint as a mercenary.

What part of the whole mercenary discussion in the other thread did you not get... or is it just the whole "having to have sunlight pumped in via the navel" issue??

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I am not sure which thread you are referring to?

[freeflir29 0]

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Just pointing out he has some inherrent benefit to continuing the status quo

Actually I don't there genius. If the war ended tomorrow and all the US Military Forces went home my job would just be all the more needed. So......if you want to try and insult me you should probably know about that of which you speak.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Not quite sure where the insult is. If I was trying to insult you, I would be a bit more clear about it...like you are, I just don't get insulted by certain people.

[juanesky 0]

Maybe, (and this is a long shot), it is because you inferred he is a mercenary.....But that is just me, and probably about 99.99% of people posting on these forums.

Don't worry, you probably won't get warned with PA.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Amazon 7]

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Actually I don't there genius. If the war ended tomorrow and all the US Military Forces went home my job would just be all the more needed. So......if you want to try and insult me you should probably know about that of which you speak.

Face it Clay.. the war on terror has been VERY VERY good for business... especially so for a few DIZZY DOT COMMERS

[Lefty 0]

Wow, so there is a definition!

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[freeflir29 0]

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Face it Clay.. the war on terror has been VERY VERY good for business... especially so for a few DIZZY DOT COMMERS

It certainly has. No denying that. I didn't start it though..........and neither did Bush. The Western propensity for short memory is amazing. Do any of you Bush/Iraq War bashers remember what pissed old Osama off in the first place? What made him start his "jihad" against the west?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Maybe, (and this is a long shot), it is because you inferred he is a mercenary.....

I thought he was there as a private contractor fighting? He brags about killing people there and he brags about how much money he is making doing it.

To me that makes him a mercenary...didn't realize that was such a touchy word for some people. If he doesn't like the label, maybe he shouldn't be bragging about the aforementioned?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Do any of you Bush/Iraq War bashers remember what pissed old Osama off in the first place? What made him start his "jihad" against the west?

Osama had nothing to do with Iraq. As a matter of fact SH and OBL couldn't stand eachother. The question makes no sense since there is no connection.

[Amazon 7]

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It certainly has. No denying that. I didn't start it though..........and neither did Bush.

Are you fucking serious.... DUDE all he had to do was stay on message and FIND Bin Laden in Afghanistan and Pakistan....but he is too fucking incompetent to do that. He had the support of the whole world.. ... We actually had a chance of WINNING the war on terror....INSTEAD.... He listened to the PNAC Neo con HEROS who wanted to go after Saddam no matter WHAT.. how many different stories have they floated now about WHY???... It was personal it was to out do his daddy... to show his daddy he was not a whimp after all.. and he and his boys dragged our country into it. A lot of good american kids have died on the throne of all that right wing psuedo- patriotism.. that did not have to.

One war at a time was just not good enough for them.

[mnealtx 0]

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I am not sure which thread you are referring to?

Here's the nutshell:

Security contractors != mercenaries. They are not hired to fight on the main line of battle - they are a DEFENSIVE asset, not an offensive asset.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[freeflir29 0]

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Osama had nothing to do with Iraq.

Actaually he did. Of course you are thinking that I am now about to spout a bunch of crap about an Al Qaeda/Saddam link........but I'm not. Your short memory decieves you.

He offered to "defeat" Saddams forces when they were threatening Saudi Arabia. Shockingly........they turned his offer down in favor of the US offer to put troops between the Kingdom and Saddam's forces. That's where it all started. Osama was now pissed because American troops were occupying the "Holy Land." So......he swore to get back at the west............and here we are today. It was the FIRST Iraq war that started all this shit. Not this one. This one has merely been a catalyst and venue.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

That sounds a bit like:

They are not POWs, they are illegal combatants.