The Pope must die, says Muslim

[StreetScooby 5]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23367232-details/The+Pope+must+die%2C+says+Muslim/article.do

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A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".

Such a peaceful religion...

Guess they don't have "turn the other cheek" in their holy book.

We are all engines of karma

[miked10270 0]

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A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".

Guess they don't have "turn the other cheek" in their holy book.

Any more than certain other "Christian" Churches & ministries such as Ian Paisley's Orangemen?

Not that I'm defending Choudray's remarks, just pointing out that extremist vicious bigotry isn't the exclusive preserve of Islam, and is no more representative of the religion than Paisley is of the Protestant churches.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Stumpy 284]

Did you not read the first 4 words of that quote?

If you replace "Muslim" with "Christian" you will find similar crap.

I know a LOT of muslims who don't want to kill anyone. But they aren't newsworthy

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[mnealtx 0]

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Did you not read the first 4 words of that quote?

If you replace "Muslim" with "Christian" you will find similar crap.

I know a LOT of muslims who don't want to kill anyone. But they aren't newsworthy

The difference is that the local Presbyterian church isn't running through the streets attacking Muslims and burning mosques en mass

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Darius11 12]

Let me ask you a few questions.

Do you think you are making an intelligent correlation between someone described as a notorious extremists and the rest of the Muslims world?

If you do know that is a stupid way to look at things then why do you?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[micro 0]

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Did you not read the first 4 words of that quote?

If you replace "Muslim" with "Christian" you will find similar crap.

I know a LOT of muslims who don't want to kill anyone. But they aren't newsworthy

I think they ARE newsworthy and they should get there asses on TV and loudly protest the insanity that's going on in the Muslim world! But no, they aren't doing that, are they? Just like another poster said in the other thread about when that quack Pat Robertson said that Chavez should be murdered... He was loudly called to task by MANY in the Christian world.

Where is the outrage among the peaceful MUSLIMS? I know they are out there... I've met some of them .

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[Andy9o8 2]

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Let me ask you a few questions.

Do you think you are making an intelligent correlation between someone described as a notorious extremists and the rest of the Muslims world?

If you do know that is a stupid way to look at things then why do you?

I agree with you completely.
But with all due respect to you, Darius, when it comes to your own pet issue (and we all know what that is), you invariably discuss it with the same manner of sweeping, one-sided generalizations, to the point where nobody wants to discuss it with you anymore. I urge you to recognize that.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Did you not read the first 4 words of that quote?

If you replace "Muslim" with "Christian" you will find similar crap.

I know a LOT of muslims who don't want to kill anyone. But they aren't newsworthy

I think they ARE newsworthy and they should get there asses on TV and loudly protest the insanity that's going on in the Muslim world! But no, they aren't doing that, are they? Just like another poster said in the other thread about when that quack Pat Robertson said that Chavez should be murdered... He was loudly called to task by MANY in the Christian world.

Where is the outrage among the peaceful MUSLIMS? I know they are out there... I've met some of them .

Fair question. I think the answer might be:

a. In countries where they're in the majority, they're afraid to speak out for fear of ostracism or even retribution – not unlike many people in the pre-civil rights South (U.S.) who didn't openly speak out about racial discrimination for much the same reason.

b. In (especially Western) countries where they're in the minority, they feel so embattled by the general anti-Muslim sentiment, which they resent as unfair, that they're not willing to risk adding fuel to the fire of bigots. Do we see you publicly criticizing the Catholic church? Not likely. Darius publicly criticizing the Palestinians? Not likely. Falxori publicly criticizing Israel? Not likely. John R. publicly criticizing the NRA? Not likely. Windcatcher publicly criticizing evangelicals? Not likely.
Same basic dynamic.

[Stumpy 284]

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The difference is that the local Presbyterian church isn't running through the streets attacking Muslims and burning mosques en mass

My local mosque members aren't running through the streets attacking Christians and burning churches en masse either.

It seems its very easy for Christians to get extremely high and mighty about how peace loving and tolerant they are. And forgetful obviously....

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Darius11 12]

Can you bring up a single instance where I have generalized a whole religion, nation, or race?

Do so and I will gladly recognize it.


Even with the Israelis (Which is an issue I am very passionate about, as you know) I mention the government and not all Jews or Israelis, but feel free to prove me wrong.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Michele 1]

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a. In countries where they're in the majority, they're afraid to speak out for fear of ostracism or even retribution – not unlike many people in the pre-civil rights South (U.S.) who didn't openly speak out about racial discrimination for much the same reason.

Fair comparison. My only difficulty with it is the fact that we (the US and Western cultures) are constantly being told that radical fundamentalist islamic people are not the majority...if one allows that claim to stand, then your comparison fails.

But see, I agree with you. There is a majority of radical muslims in some countries. Because of that, I'll agree with your comparison, and say that some are frightened and indeed intimidated by a more vocal, violent majority.

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b. In (especially Western) countries where they're in the minority, they feel so embattled by the general anti-Muslim sentiment, which they resent as unfair, that they're not willing to risk adding fuel to the fire of bigots.

That I can agree with in a general sense.

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Do we see you publicly criticizing the Catholic church? Not likely. Darius publicly criticizing the Palestinians? Not likely. Falxori publicly criticizing Israel? Not likely. John R. publicly criticizing the NRA? Not likely. Windcatcher publicly criticizing evangelicals? Not likely.

We often see Micro criticizing the Catholic Church, we have seen Darius on occasion criticizing the violence of the fundamentals (although often that's not the case), Falxori does indeed criticize the Israeli government. Can't say much for John R or Windcatcher, though.

The difference, I believe, lays in a free society. We in most western cultures are free to express ourselves without too much fear of violent recriminations; that is not the same in a muslim based society, where if you don't spout the party line, you're stoned, ostracized, or put to death.

Problem, that. Don't you think? There very well may be some people in those muslim countries who disagree with the fundamentalist islamic interpretation, but cannot speak out because they will be killed.

Ciels-
Michele

Ciels-
Same basic dynamic.

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[miked10270 0]

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The difference is that the local Presbyterian church isn't running through the streets attacking Muslims and burning mosques en mass

OUR "Local Presbyterian Church" is too busy shooting Catholics to deal with Mosques (yet)!

Hence my earlier Ian Paisley references.

As for the question about what the quiet majority of Muslims are doing - they're being quite. It just isn't news. "Muslims understand Pope's comments" won't sell any media advertising. Pics of Muslims going to work like nothing's happened won't sell, regardless of the fact that that's exactly what 99%+ ARE doing.

Media coverage is given out based on who's making the most noise, not how sensible or representative they are.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Do you think you are making an intelligent correlation between someone described as a notorious extremists and the rest of the Muslims world?

There seems to be alot of Muslim extremists around these days, and the rest of the Muslim world is doing NOTHING about them.

We are all engines of karma

[Darius11 12]

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The difference, I believe, lays in a free society. We in most western cultures are free to express ourselves without too much fear of violent recriminations; that is not the same in a muslim based society, where if you don't spout the party line, you're stoned, ostracized, or put to death.

Problem, that. Don't you think? There very well may be some people in those muslim countries who disagree with the fundamentalist islamic interpretation, but cannot speak out because they will be killed.

Great point.
The problem in many countries in the Middle East is that the extremists have the power and all the guns.
They are the government

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

I think you should apply the same logic we apply to our local news.
The crazy evil shit that happens is what you hear of. If I just view the local RI news as what Rhoad Island is like. Then I would think everyone has guns and are shooting each other all the time basically it’s the wild wild west with drugs. However this is not true.

News is no different then any other business they cayter to what makes them money.
So the average Muslim who is at work right now like my self we are not news worthy. The crazy fuck screaming death to America will always get a reaction.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[StreetScooby 5]

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The problem in many countries in the Middle East is that the extremists have the power and all the guns.

So, we're right being concerned about them.

We are all engines of karma

[Amazon 7]

SU PRISE SU PRISE SU PRISE

[StreetScooby 5]

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SU PRISE SU PRISE SU PRISEUnimpressed

LOL!

We are all engines of karma

[Darius11 12]

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The problem in many countries in the Middle East is that the extremists have the power and all the guns.

So, we're right being concerned about them.

Off course we should be concerned about any extremists who tries to impose their views on us, but we should not try to tell them or force to be like us either. We are also not so perfect.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[beowulf 1]

I think this calls for a regime change in all of those extremist countries! Yeah that's a good idea.

Show me which muslim country that isn't extremist?!

[billvon 3,120]

>The difference is that the local Presbyterian church isn't running
>through the streets attacking Muslims and burning mosques en mass.

Neither is the local mosque.

[DJL 235]

That's a really shitty way for the paper to put it. As if that's the concensus of all Islam.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 3,120]

>I think they ARE newsworthy and they should get there asses on
>TV . . . .

If you go to a TV station and say "put my peace-loving ass on TV" they won't do it - not when there's a bombing to cover. You have to blow shit up to get on TV - which is why you see more TV coverage of muslims (and US forces) who blow shit up.

>and loudly protest the insanity that's going on in the Muslim world!
>But no, they aren't doing that, are they?

They are.

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Muslims here decry religious extremism
Chicago Sun-Times

http://www.suntimes.com/output/terror/cst-nws-fatwa30.html

In light of bomb attacks in London and Egypt, Muslim interest groups in Chicago on Friday joined Muslims nationwide in publicly decrying acts of violence performed for religion's sake.

Several Muslim interest groups here officially endorsed the fatwa, or religious decree, issued by the Fiqh Council of North America against religious extremism.
-----------
CONTRA COSTA TIMES – February 9, 2006

Bay Area Muslims denounce cartoons, violence
By Nathaniel Hoffman

Two Bay Area Muslim groups on Wednesday condemned published caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad and the violent reactions to the cartoons that have spread through the Muslim world this week.
------------
A Muslim woman's 'Call for Reform'
By Rich Barlow, Globe Staff | February 21, 2004

Canadian journalist Irshad Manji makes a manifesto for Muslim moderation.

"Islam is on very thin ice with me," she writes in "The Trouble With Islam: A Muslim's Call for Reform in Her Faith" (St. Martin's Press). She says that while other religions also contend with fundamentalist extremism, Islam's is particularly acute.
-----------------
Dutch Muslims rally against violence

Wednesday 10 November 2004, 10:07
Theo van Gogh's funeral has been telecast live

Muslims in the Netherlands have rallied to condemn violence and called for unity after an outspoken filmmaker was killed by a suspected Dutch Muslim.

A 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan has been charged with last week's murder of Theo van Gogh, who had been accused of insulting Islam.

Van Gogh is due to be cremated later on Tuesday in a ceremony to be broadcast live on television.

Hundreds of people have laid flowers, candles and notes at the spot where Van Gogh was killed. They also left cactuses, a tribute to the filmmaker's prickly nature, and bottles of beer. Dozens of people circled the site on Tuesday.

About 60 young Dutch Muslims wearing orange T-shirts reading "We won't put up with extremism any more" cycled through Amsterdam stopping at mosques to protest against the killing.
----------------------
10/28/04 - MUSLIMS SPEAK AGAINST TERRORISM

01 November 2004

Queen Noor of Jordan is urging Muslims to speak out against the "ranting" of extremists who use Islam to justify beheadings and suicide bombings against innocent civilians.

In a recent interview, Queen Noor denounced the twisting of Islam by extremists. "What I believe are the vast majority of moderate Muslim clerics. . . .do not at all subscribe to the distorted ranting of these militant extremist groups and abhor the form that their zealotry has taken in terms of beheadings and suicide bombings and the killings of innocents, because these are forbidden in Islam," said Queen Noor.
-----------------

[micro 0]

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>I think they ARE newsworthy and they should get there asses on
>TV . . . .

If you go to a TV station and say "put my peace-loving ass on TV" they won't do it - not when there's a bombing to cover. You have to blow shit up to get on TV - which is why you see more TV coverage of muslims (and US forces) who blow shit up.

>and loudly protest the insanity that's going on in the Muslim world!
>But no, they aren't doing that, are they?

They are.

----------
Muslims here decry religious extremism
Chicago Sun-Times

http://www.suntimes.com/output/terror/cst-nws-fatwa30.html

In light of bomb attacks in London and Egypt, Muslim interest groups in Chicago on Friday joined Muslims nationwide in publicly decrying acts of violence performed for religion's sake.

Several Muslim interest groups here officially endorsed the fatwa, or religious decree, issued by the Fiqh Council of North America against religious extremism.
-----------
CONTRA COSTA TIMES – February 9, 2006

Bay Area Muslims denounce cartoons, violence
By Nathaniel Hoffman

Two Bay Area Muslim groups on Wednesday condemned published caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad and the violent reactions to the cartoons that have spread through the Muslim world this week.
------------
A Muslim woman's 'Call for Reform'
By Rich Barlow, Globe Staff | February 21, 2004

Canadian journalist Irshad Manji makes a manifesto for Muslim moderation.

"Islam is on very thin ice with me," she writes in "The Trouble With Islam: A Muslim's Call for Reform in Her Faith" (St. Martin's Press). She says that while other religions also contend with fundamentalist extremism, Islam's is particularly acute.
-----------------
Dutch Muslims rally against violence

Wednesday 10 November 2004, 10:07
Theo van Gogh's funeral has been telecast live

Muslims in the Netherlands have rallied to condemn violence and called for unity after an outspoken filmmaker was killed by a suspected Dutch Muslim.

A 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan has been charged with last week's murder of Theo van Gogh, who had been accused of insulting Islam.

Van Gogh is due to be cremated later on Tuesday in a ceremony to be broadcast live on television.

Hundreds of people have laid flowers, candles and notes at the spot where Van Gogh was killed. They also left cactuses, a tribute to the filmmaker's prickly nature, and bottles of beer. Dozens of people circled the site on Tuesday.

About 60 young Dutch Muslims wearing orange T-shirts reading "We won't put up with extremism any more" cycled through Amsterdam stopping at mosques to protest against the killing.
----------------------
10/28/04 - MUSLIMS SPEAK AGAINST TERRORISM

01 November 2004

Queen Noor of Jordan is urging Muslims to speak out against the "ranting" of extremists who use Islam to justify beheadings and suicide bombings against innocent civilians.

In a recent interview, Queen Noor denounced the twisting of Islam by extremists. "What I believe are the vast majority of moderate Muslim clerics. . . .do not at all subscribe to the distorted ranting of these militant extremist groups and abhor the form that their zealotry has taken in terms of beheadings and suicide bombings and the killings of innocents, because these are forbidden in Islam," said Queen Noor.
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Too bad they're not getting the same airtime as the violent douche bags... whose fault is that? media? douche bags? pope? god? the debbil?

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[mnealtx 0]

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>The difference is that the local Presbyterian church isn't running
>through the streets attacking Muslims and burning mosques en mass.

Neither is the local mosque.

You're being obtuse, Bill. I'd love to know how many of the imams in those local mosques were urging peace and understanding before their adherents went out and rioted/burned.

Contrast that with Robertson...for all his talk, his parishioners didn't stream out of the church to burn the local mosque, and you well know it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706