Richards 0 #1 September 18, 2006 Apparently this is art. http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/17/painted.elephant.ap/index.html I think I have to go with the animal activists on this one. Should this sort of thing be allowed? Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #2 September 18, 2006 I feel bad for the elephant - kinda, but I don't see how it is abused. Humiliated maybe, but I don't know if is really abused. I do hope it took a big dump in the gallery. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #3 September 18, 2006 The losers who think of stuff like this need to get a life and a real job. "Oooh, Angelina Jolie and Brad Peeett are at my opening. Wizzout zem my credeebeeleetee goes out ze door." The losers who bitch about degrading animals like this need to get a life and a real job, and stop thinking they know how an elephant feels. What, did the elephant say, "You know, sir, I feel degraded having to wear this paint. It puts me under stress, and I think I am losing my mind. Can you refer me to a therapist who can help me cope with my plight?" My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #4 September 18, 2006 QuoteThe losers who think of stuff like this need to get a life and a real job. "Oooh, Angelina Jolie and Brad Peeett are at my opening. Wizzout zem my credeebeeleetee goes out ze door." The losers who bitch about degrading animals like this need to get a life and a real job, and stop thinking they know how an elephant feels. What, did the elephant say, "You know, sir, I feel degraded having to wear this paint. It puts me under stress, and I think I am losing my mind. Can you refer me to a therapist who can help me cope with my plight?" which side are you on? I can't tell. judyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #5 September 18, 2006 QuoteHumiliated maybe Do you think Elephants can feel humiliated?"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #6 September 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteHumiliated maybe Do you think Elephants can feel humiliated? yes I do. Have you ever seen a dog hide after a bad haircut? I have. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #7 September 18, 2006 What a horrible abuse of a noble animal! I can't believe people use animals as canvases. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #8 September 18, 2006 I think it's kinda silly, but I don't see how it harms the animal. If elephants humiliate so easily, then we obviously have a lot of other issues where they're concerned that impact them more harshly than the paint job.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #9 September 18, 2006 According to the article, Tai is both female and used often in movies. Humiliation? I don't know; seems the elephant would need to understand what it looks like to others for that. Depression? Absolutely. From Wikipedia: QuoteSocial behavior Elephants live in a very structured social order. The social lives of male and female elephants are very different. The females spend their entire lives in tightly knit family groups made up of mothers, daughters, sisters, and aunts. These groups are led by the eldest female, or matriarch. Adult males, on the other hand, live mostly solitary lives. The social circle of the female elephant does not end with the small family unit. In addition to encountering the local males that live on the fringes of one or more groups, the female's life also involves interaction with other families, clans, and subpopulations. Most immediate family groups range from five to fifteen adults, as well as a number of immature males and females. I already knew this and many other reasons from legitimate sources why elephants used for art and entertainment is cruel, but well, everyone here seems to love their Wikipedia. One doesn't need to be an animal psychic to understand years of research, observation and logical deduction.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #10 September 18, 2006 In the wild dogs are pack animals, interacting with one another every day in a social hierarchy. Maybe everyone should get rid of their pet dogs then. (actually PETA thinks they should). Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #11 September 18, 2006 A dog, unlike an elephant, has been known to form simliar bonds to humans. Of course, my dog still loves other dogs, too. He goes to doggie day care where he plays all day w/ other dogs twice/week. The other days we usually take him to dog park and we ALWAYS play with him.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #12 September 18, 2006 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Humiliated maybe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you think Elephants can feel humiliated? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yes I do. Have you ever seen a dog hide after a bad haircut? I have. Judy Since we're projecting Human emotions on animals, and using your experience with a dog, how do you know it didn't make the elephant feel "Pretty"? It might have loved getting all dolled up......."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #13 September 18, 2006 Be warned... they NEVER forget!! Humiliate one of these wonderfull beasties and if he gets the chance to turn the tables, there'll be twubble..... big twubble. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #14 September 18, 2006 yes I do. Have you ever seen a dog hide after a bad haircut? I have. I don't know how people conclude from a dog's hiding that the dog is "humiliated." Maybe the dog just feels cold.... linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #15 September 18, 2006 Do you believe an animal can feel happy or sad or mad? Certainly they can. My cat hisses when mad. Purrs when happy/content. My doggie wags his tail, jumps up and down and licks my face when he's happy. Why not then other emotions? A dog has a measured & proven level of intelligence. It must then understand enough to know it is happy when it gets a treat. Pigs have a measured & proven level of intelligence at the same level as a dog. I wish I could stay and provide links (to those who seem to be less research-inclined) but I haven't the time today. The science is there though, proven & waiting to be read. Of course, if one doesn't believe in science than I have no argument for such a person (except perhaps on a sheer moral level in many cases), but then I hope such a person has never taken antibiotics for that nasty virus they once had either.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #16 September 18, 2006 QuoteIn the wild dogs are pack animals, interacting with one another every day in a social hierarchy. Maybe everyone should get rid of their pet dogs then. (actually PETA thinks they should). In most households dogs ARE at the top of the ladder. Tell me, when was the last time you saw a dog pick up people poop?"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #17 September 18, 2006 Quotehow do you know it didn't make the elephant feel "Pretty"? It might have loved getting all dolled up....... That could be true. It actually may have liked the application of the "make-up". Its just it looks so sad, but I don't think I've seen an elephant that looks real happy either. Oh what do I know. I still hope it took a big dump in the gallery. judyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #18 September 18, 2006 If the elephant didn't like it she would have trampled the artist.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #19 September 18, 2006 I love, love, love that you care about the elephant.Sadly, the opposition won't put much weight into the "he feels humiliated in make-up" argument. There is FAR more to it than that to argue, though, thankfully. Frankly, though I'm not for painting elephants, that's not even close to the issue/s I have with such a display.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #20 September 18, 2006 QuoteIf the elephant didn't like it she would have trampled the artist. Yes, of course. Why didn't I think of that. Please research Tai's training (or any other elephant used in entertainment, please).Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #21 September 18, 2006 QuoteWhy not then other emotions? I never said they were incapable of emotions. I asked Judy if she thought the Elephant felt humiliated. Too often people project human emotions on animals, when there is no real inter-species correlation. My dog appears "happy" when I pet her. To compare it to human happiness. while understandable, is still probably inadequate. To say that an elephant feels "humiliated" imho, is a stretch. We have no idea what the elephant is thinking."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #22 September 18, 2006 QuoteI never said they were incapable of emotions. I asked Judy if she thought the Elephant felt humiliated. Too often people project human emotions on animals, when there is no real inter-species correlation. I agree.Lucky for Judy's argument on behalf of the elephant, the elephant's possible humilation is the least of my worries as far as her actual welfare is concerned. I really, really have to go now---Damn you Richards for talking animal rights before I really, really have to go.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #23 September 18, 2006 What about spanking monkeys? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #24 September 18, 2006 QuoteWhat about spanking monkeys? Oppressive. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #25 September 18, 2006 QuoteWhat about spanking monkeys? Won't that make you go blind? judyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
