Is Iraq a quagmire for the US led coalition

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Like Clinton on Fox news?

yup

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Did you expect the entire Muslim world to welcome you with open arms? I guess we shouldn't have invaded Germany because well.........then Germans everywhere might get pissed off.

We were told that Iraqis would be welcoming the invading force with open arms, cheering and would be throwing flowers. Turned out to be another thing the Administration was wrong about.

[freeflir29 0]

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Turned out to be another thing the Administration was wrong about.

In your narrow uninformed view..........maybe.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_people



Just so you don't have to scroll.......


"The Kurds, with an estimated population of about 30 million people........"


I can tell you from experience that damn near ALL of the Kurds ARE like Rush Chairman Eric Stratton. "Damn glad ta meet ya!" I know people here that would protect me like one of their own children. So please stop spouting about shit that you don't know about.

[Hayfield 0]

"Yep............keep spouting the Dem line. "You're doing it all wrong...........you're doing it all wrong!!!" and not have ANY clue how to do it better. Dems talk........Republicans do. I guess Dems see it as.......if you don't DO anything and keep blaming everyone else.......that just HAS to work! Kept Clinton in office for 8 years."

Now the truth is out. Another brainwashed right wing supporter that tells people, "they don't know what they're talking about" and points fingers elsewhere because they cant deal with "their" party being wrong. Learn to speak German, the bullshit sounds more convincing that way.
What gets me is how effective the Bush/right have been in villifying the left. It's the right that cuts soldiers combat pay, VA benefits, and social programs for their families. Its the right that tells guys "tough shit, stay longer cause we said so" because they can't get enlistment quotas filled. They've been lying about low enlistment numbers for 3 years, now they cant hide it anymore and must ease enlistment criteria (age, education, etc.). Yes, repubs act, with the son's and daughters of the poor, not their own.
PS When I was young and didn't read enough, I enlisted and was a Republican. Education (not liberal bias in college profs or the media) cured me of most right wing tendencies.

PPS: I have yet to meet a returning Iraq vet who thinks things are going well (except those on FOX news).

"Remember the First Commandment: Don't Fuck Up!"
-Crusty Old Pete

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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In your narrow uninformed view..........maybe.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_people



Just so you don't have to scroll.......


"The Kurds, with an estimated population of about 30 million people........"


I can tell you from experience that damn near ALL of the Kurds ARE like Rush Chairman Eric Stratton. "Damn glad ta meet ya!" I know people here that would protect me like one of their own children. So please stop spouting about shit that you don't know about.

The Kurds are a very distinct sub-group. The majority of which want to seperate from Iraq.

Are you sure the administration meant just the Kurds when they said Iraqis would welcome them with open arms?

Looks like theer are very many Iraqis who aren't so happy. If that wasn't the case, you would be out of a job.

[Amazon 7]

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PPS: I have yet to meet a returning Iraq vet who thinks things are going well (except those on FOX news).

Hey I know a FEW returning contractors from Halliburton.. etc.... they LOVED it... then again.. they are making HUGE amounts of money that they could not make here in the US of A.

Personally I think our troops are underpaid and put their asses on the line for way too little return monitarily. Perhaps if they were paid more.. More of the RIGHT WINGERS who are prattling on about patriotism would find it more advantageous to serve( since money seems to b e a far more motivating factor than does patriotism for them....isnt that RIGHT _________( name left out to protect the guilty party who claimed he would NEVER join the military because the pay is so poor.. but constantly spouts the right wing party/patriotism line.)

[Hayfield 0]

War profiteering makes me f'ing sick. War profiteers should die from anal bleeding and rot in hell.

"Remember the First Commandment: Don't Fuck Up!"
-Crusty Old Pete

[freeflir29 0]

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"they don't know what they're talking about"

How many days have you spent in Iraq or Afghanistan?

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points fingers elsewhere because they cant deal with "their" party being wrong.

I happen to think that the political wrangling that was necessary to get support for this front of the war was ludicrous. It has OBVIOUSLY blown up in the Republicans face. However, Dems are now so busy running around playing political bullshit games and only worrying about their own asses getting "The Power" back that they have lost sight of all the very GOOD reasons to do what we have done. I DO believe that invading Iraq was morally the right thing to do. You can argue all you want but it isn't going to change my mind.

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It's the right that cuts soldiers combat pay, VA benefits, and social programs for their families.

Where the hell have you been since 1977? You are either dumb or just lieing. Since then the Dems have done NOTHING but cut the military and the Republicans try and build it back up. I served from 1991 to 2000 and saw nothing but my pay and benefits getting robbed at every turn. Yeah........Thanks Bill Clinton. One of the reasons I got out. Why stay in for 20 years to only get 38% of my base pay. BUSH........fixed that later and put everyone back to 50% retirement IIRC.

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and must ease enlistment criteria (age, education, etc.)

Ummm........there's a war on. All those kids that used to sign up for the easy college money thinking they might have to run a little one weekend a month and two weeks a year are scared. It's bound to drive enlistment down now that people realize that war isn't a movie with Tom Hanks in it.

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Yes, repubs act, with the son's and daughters of the poor, not their own.

And at least they do their best to support them. Some made a huge row over the lack of armor for HMMV's. Clinton had AC-130's available during the Somalia conflict yet ordered them removed. Republicans had to spend millions more to up armor most of the tactical and transport vehicles in Iraq and Afghanistan. Which the Dems bitched about because it cost money. You did as well I am sure.

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Its the right that tells guys "tough shit, stay longer cause we said so" because they can't get enlistment quotas filled.

No..........that's military commanders making a decision. Doesn't have SHIT to do with politics.

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When I was young and didn't read enough, I enlisted and was a Republican. Education (not liberal bias in college profs or the media) cured me of most right wing tendencies.

I'm neither young or uneducated. I have served this country either in the military or federal law enforcement for all but 2 of the last 15 years. What contribiutions have you made?

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PPS: I have yet to meet a returning Iraq vet who thinks things are going well (except those on FOX news).

Going well? It's a WAR stupid. No war "goes well." Stop smoking so much weed and come back to reality.

[billvon 3,132]

>In your narrow uninformed view . . .

Enough with the PA's.

[freeflir29 0]

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Are you sure the administration meant just the Kurds when they said Iraqis would welcome them with open arms?

I never said that.........you did. I know MANY Iraqis.....MANY who are NOT Kurdish and they are happy as can be that the US came here. Sure......they wish things were better and that the violence would stop just like everyone else does but they thank Allah every day that Saddam is gone. One in particular........he was scheduled for EXECUTION THE DAY the Army rolled into Baghdad. Americans are his best friends now. BTW.......he was a political prisoner..........not a criminal.

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Looks like theer are very many Iraqis who aren't so happy.

You wouldn't be happy either if you didn't have water or power or fuel because shit heads keep blowing it up. That's a VERY general statement. There are plenty of Americans that aren't happy with Bush. DO they go around blowing shit up every day?

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If that wasn't the case, you would be out of a job.

Wrong again. I do Executive Protection. I CHOOSE to be here. I could probably work ANYWHERE in the world I wanted. Many places for the same or very close to the same amount of money some places more. Once again......I CHOSE to come to Iraq. So.......AGAIN..........please know what you are talking about before you speak.

[juanesky 0]

Clay you should not get worked up about comments like these. We both know as so many others that is better to actually do something about these "nice " Islamic fascist than nothing at all, ala El Jefe Clintonista.

Hayfield is a little confused about the fact that most armed forces personnel are well trained, and go to schools, and opt to educate themselves further.

I love it when I hear all kinds of insults, but with not a single tangible solution/alternative is offered, except for the bitching of course.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[freeflir29 0]

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name left out to protect the guilty party who claimed he would NEVER join the military because the pay is so poor.. but constantly spouts the right wing party/patriotism line.

Jeanne..........is that pointed at me? I said I would NEVER join the military? If you meant me you must have meant "again" because I served for almost 10 years. The reason I wouldn't go back in the military is that no...........I won't work for that low of pay ever again. I have built a very nice resume with a lot of blood, sweat, tears, time, and MY MONEY. I expect a return on that investment. I wouldn't expect you would go back in the military either. Your career has moved on.........I would hope.

[wmw999 2,602]

I'm sure there are many who want us there. Are there more than the ones who don't? And the ones who "want us there" -- what do they mean by that? Saddam gone, electricity flowing again, democracy, monarchy, communism, theocracy, schools, a Kurdish state, union with Iran?

I'll bet there are Iraqis with all of those opinions.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Amazon 7]

ITs not you dear.. I KNOW your background as do you know mine...

That was aimed DIRECTLY at one of my FAVORITE Chickenhawks

[freeflir29 0]

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ITs not you dear.. I KNOW your background as do you know mine...

Oh..........sorry..........I was so busy throwing punches in this bar fight I got carried away.

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I'll bet there are Iraqis with all of those opinions.

No doubt about that. That's why I laugh so hard when people make comments like that.

[Amazon 7]

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Oh..........sorry..........I was so busy throwing punches in this bar fight I got carried away.

Hey no prob.... I can take a pretty good punch.... just as long as I can return it with equal vigor

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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How many days have you spent in Iraq or Afghanistan?

How many have you served in Iraq or Afghanistan (round two for Iraq only, since the first one has no bearing on what we are currently discussing)?

How many of those did you not sit behind a computer?

Those questions aren't really relevant, are they?

[billvon 3,132]

>but they thank Allah every day that Saddam is gone.

That is indeed nice. Unfortunately, the violence is far worse now than when Saddam was in power, and people are being tortured and killed in record numbers.

>.he was scheduled for EXECUTION THE DAY the Army rolled into
> Baghdad. Americans are his best friends now.

That's great. But there are also people like Dilawar, an innocent cabbie that the US arrested and tortured to death. I have a feeling his family would have preferred that the US hadn't decided to intervene in their lives.

That's the problem with the US occupation in Iraq. You mention that many people disliked Saddam, which is certainly true. Due to our actions, we are now becoming more hated than even that dictator. And that, as recent reports indicate, will mean a future of increased terrorism directed against the US.

This isn't because Iraqis are all evil extremists; it's because the great majority are a lot like you and me. You mentioned previously that US citizens who disagree with Bush don't blow things up. What if Bush was responsible for the torture and death of your wife? Your father? Your son? I think at some point most people would decide that perhaps violence isn't such a bad idea.

> I do Executive Protection. I CHOOSE to be here.

That's great! But as he mentioned, if people there didn't need protection due to the increasing violence, you would not have been able to choose that job.

[freeflir29 0]

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Those questions aren't really relevant, are they?

How's it irrelevant? People are spouting on and on about how they know what's best. They know that the Iraqi people hate America. They know this and they know that............how'd they learn all this? Correspondence? Sooty Please!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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How's it irrelevant? People are spouting on and on about how they know what's best. They know that the Iraqi people hate America. They know this and they know that............how'd they learn all this? Correspondence?

Or declassified key findings of an Intelligence community report. They contradict what you keep saying here. Are you telling me that your intelligence agencies are wrong again? Do they not know what they are talking about? Do you know better because you work executive protection in Iraq?

[freeflir29 0]

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and people are being tortured and killed in record numbers.

So the US has killed and tortured RECORD numbers of civilians? Ummm.......you SURE about that Bill? Saddam was in power for a LONG time and killed A LOT of people. Are you sure we have surpassed him? I'm not.

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But there are also people like Dilawar, an innocent cabbie that the US arrested and tortured to death.

Wow.......you sure like to use that word. I don't know Dilawar Bill. Do you? How do we know he was innocent? Just a question. Undoubtedly, innocent people will be killed by US military forces in Iraq. No matter how hard we try we just can't stop people from doing STUPID things. Like NOT stopping for a clearly marked check point. I have no idea what Dilawar's story is so why don't you tell me.

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What if Bush was responsible for the torture and death of your wife? Your father? Your son? I think at some point most people would decide that perhaps violence isn't such a bad idea.

Bill..........comparing the "Insurgency" in Iraq to you and I is ludicrous. Yes.......I can tell you that ocassionally there ARE retalliatory attacks on people that have done some really dumb shit. This is rare though and insurgents aren't in it because someone has harmed them or their families. It's normally either about power or ideaology. Nice story though. It sounds good.

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if people there didn't need protection due to the increasing violence

Bill.....I would still be here. I would just operate very differently.

[freeflir29 0]

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They contradict what you keep saying here.

No......I don't think it does. What you seem to not grasp is that Iraq is a pretty damn large country. You keep making generalizations about the Iraqi population. I'm telling you that those generalizations are false or at least GROSSLY misleading. Your generalizations are right up there with "Mexicans are lazy, White people can't dance, and only black people like fried chicken and watermellon." BTW.......I LOVE fried chicken and watermellon and if I drink enough I will SWEAR I can dance.

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Or declassified key findings of an Intelligence community report.

Or hearsay leaked by democrats. I saw Bush on the news today and he says he told the agency that put out that report to declassify the whole thing. Since the Democrats readily put National security at the back of the bus behind politics. AGAIN. Lets not write a book report on War and Peace from what someone who didn't like the author's competition and only read 10 pages told you about it over a beer. Funny that liberals have already ran over the hill yelling to the roof tops about it though. Or sad really.

[Amazon 7]

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Or hearsay leaked by democrats. I saw Bush on the news today and he says he told the agency that put out that report to declassify the whole thing. Since the Democrats readily put National security at the back of the bus behind politics. AGAIN. Lets not write a book report on War and Peace from what someone who didn't like the author's competition and only read 10 pages told you about it over a beer. Funny that liberals have already ran over the hill yelling to the roof tops about it though. Or sad really.

MMM OK.. so when Bushies boy leak the name of a CIA Operative for political purposes its ok.....

Bushie wagging his tounge about leaking information for political purposes...on this one.. is TOTAL HYPOCRISY

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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No......I don't think it does. What you seem to not grasp is that Iraq is a pretty damn large country. You keep making generalizations about the Iraqi population. I'm telling you that those generalizations are false or at least GROSSLY misleading. Your generalizations are right up there with "Mexicans are lazy, White people can't dance, and only black people like fried chicken and watermellon."

Which generalization is that? That most Iraqis would prefer the Americans to leave? You might be right, then you might also be wrong, since there really is no way of polling. There does seem to be a very violent and relatively large part that is very actively resisting. Then there are 30 million who have just said, we don't belong to Iraq anymore.

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Or hearsay leaked by democrats.

I am not sure how published key findings are hearsay. I have not heard that the whole report will now be published. Yesterday the decision was made to declassify the whole report. I have linked to the key findings in another thread. Did you read them, or do you prefer to continue on with your own hearsay?

[freeflir29 0]

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so when Bushies boy leak the name of a CIA Operative for political purposes its ok.....

No it wasn't. Unfortunately, that isn't the first time I have seen that either. I lost yet another friend last year due to some idiots from DC.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Republicans had to spend millions more to up armor most of the tactical and transport vehicles in Iraq and Afghanistan. Which the Dems bitched about because it cost money.

The people I hear bitching the most about insufficient armor, salary, medical benefits, payday lending predation etc. were/are from the left. The people who finance additional armor (money for the troops!!!!) through supplemental "emergency" spending bills laden with earmarked bridges and railways to nowhere happen to be from the right.