SpeedRacer 1 #26 September 26, 2006 Quote>>Soldiers use it as a first resort because the military is ALREADY a last resort. >Not these days Bill. Not even close. Which is sad, and is one reason (IMO) that we are in the current quagmire. >With the USSR we had the option of deterrance. Right. "You attack us and we destroy you." They didn't attack us (other than via weaker proxies that weren't much of a threat) and we just sat back and let them disintegrate. We could have easily done the same with Saddam. I am hoping that that's what we'll do with Iran. we've got two more years of the Bush administration to get through, though. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #27 September 26, 2006 QuoteWe could have easily done the same with Saddam. Maybe.............maybe not. Castro has done OK and he doesn't have oil. We don't have that option against terrorist threats like "Al Qaeda." QuoteWhich is sad, and is one reason (IMO) that we are in the current quagmire. Maybe..........the military is having to learn. They learned a lot in Bosnia and Kosovo but that was child's play compared to this place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #28 September 26, 2006 Quote Maybe.............maybe not. Castro has done OK and he doesn't have oil. Uh Clay dear.... you need to keep up on CURRENT EVENTS.... http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/08/Worldandnation/Cuba_seeks_oil_near_K.shtml Cuba pumps about 80,000 barrels of oil a day in Havana and Matanzas provinces, but it is of poor quality and meets less than half of the country's needs. Thus there has been considerable excitement about fields off the northwest Cuban coast that could contain 4.5-billion to 9-billion barrels of oil - almost as much as in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska. Hows your Spanish???? Could be some job security there Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #29 September 26, 2006 QuoteCuba pumps about 80,000 barrels of oil a day in Havana and Matanzas provinces, but it is of poor quality and meets less than half of the country's needs. So.........that's about enough to keep Castro in Cigars. Not exactly an export power house like Iraq. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #30 September 26, 2006 You have to read the rest Clay.... FOCUS...... now look at the REST of the article... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #31 September 26, 2006 Quotenow look at the REST of the article... OK..........I did............AGAIN. It talks about PLANNED exploration and one Senators bills to try and curtail Chinese involvement. I doubt that has brought much money to Cuba just yet. It MAY in the future.......but hasn't effected the last 43 years of that country existing. They have been propped up by the USSR and South American countries. What's your point? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #32 September 26, 2006 My point is.. we usually dont go play militarily in third world shitholes.. unless they have oil.... and it looks like they have LOTS of oil... in the not so very distant future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #33 September 26, 2006 Quoteand it looks like they have LOTS of oil... in the not so very distant future. Sorry........didn't make that leap in the conversation. I have been saying that I wish next time we chose a war it was closer to home and in a place that was more fun. I hear Havana is a blast! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #34 September 26, 2006 >Castro has done OK and he doesn't have oil. Good example. A horrible communist threat, just off our coast! One that could lob IRBM's at Florida and take us out! Clearly (at least to the people during the missile crisis) a much larger threat than some Iraqi insurgents will ever be. Yet we left them alone (for the most part.) And we not only survived, but started just ignoring them - and we came through just fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #35 September 26, 2006 Turns out Iraq has just added fuel to the jihadist movement. Looks like the wonderful decision by your president to start a "humanitarian" mission has seriously hindered his War on Terror. Another job well done Mr. president. From the Declassified Key Judgments of the National Intelligence Estimate “Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States” dated April 2006: (Clay you may want to note this report isn't 10 years old) The Iraq conflict has become the cause celebre for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement. Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves, and be perceived, to have failed, we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight. and: Four underlying factors are fueling the spread of the jihadist movement: (1) Entrenched grievances, such as corruption, injustice, and fear of Western domination, leading to anger, humiliation, and a sense of powerlessness; (2) the Iraq jihad; (3) the slow pace of real and sustained economic, social, and political reforms in many Muslim majority nations; and (4) pervasive anti-US sentiment among most Muslims all of which jihadists exploit. Three out of four of those factors were in place before Bush decided to start his war in Iraq. The War in Iraq quickly became a fourth. Now do you understand how Iraq has just added fuel to the fire? Edited to add: Actually read all the Key Findings, maybe they will make you pause and rethink some things: http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/Declassified_NIE_Key_Judgments.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #36 September 26, 2006 QuoteNow do you understand how Iraq has just added fuel to the fire? Ummmm............I never said it didn't. I don't really think it changed THAT much though. Just one more thing for the muslim world to bitch about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #37 September 26, 2006 actually read the whole report, it isn't overly flattering. Actually let me re-phrase that. It is flattering of the soldiers on the ground, however pretty clearly states that it is extremely detrimental to the War on Teror. Personally, I think the War on Teror is far more important than the War in Iraq. What do you think Clay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #38 September 27, 2006 They aren't mutually exclusive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #39 September 27, 2006 QuoteThey aren't mutually exclusive. Didn't you argue earlier that Iraq was a Humanitarian Mission to free the poor people of Iraq from their despotic and inhumane leader? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #40 September 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteWe could have easily done the same with Saddam. Maybe.............maybe not. Castro has done OK and he doesn't have oil. We don't have that option against terrorist threats like "Al Qaeda." I keep getting lost here. Are we talking about the Iraq fiasco or the "war" on terrorism? I'm reading these posts and they're as confusing as a Bush speech Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #41 September 27, 2006 QuoteQuote Maybe.............maybe not. Castro has done OK and he doesn't have oil. Uh Clay dear.... you need to keep up on CURRENT EVENTS.... http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/08/Worldandnation/Cuba_seeks_oil_near_K.shtml Hows your Spanish???? Could be some job security there There Fixed it for you. Don't forget that the only cars actually running in there besides the military, are cabs (very few) and government, besides getting a lot of oil from Venezuela. By the way how have you been?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #42 September 27, 2006 QuoteDidn't you argue earlier that Iraq was a Humanitarian Mission to free the poor people of Iraq from their despotic and inhumane leader? Sure did.........I mentioned that it was one of MANY good reasons to invade Iraq. QuoteAre we talking about the Iraq fiasco or the "war" on terrorism? It has become one in the same. Merely a differen't front in the same war. If you can't see that you have no business even discussing this subject. Go read Billy's thread here in SC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #43 September 27, 2006 QuoteSure did.........I mentioned that it was one of MANY good reasons to invade Iraq. Ahh yes, bullshit baffles brains....seems to be working for many. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #44 September 27, 2006 Yep............keep spouting the Dem line. "You're doing it all wrong...........you're doing it all wrong!!!" and not have ANY clue how to do it better. Dems talk........Republicans do. I guess Dems see it as.......if you don't DO anything and keep blaming everyone else.......that just HAS to work! Kept Clinton in office for 8 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #45 September 27, 2006 Quote QuoteAre we talking about the Iraq fiasco or the "war" on terrorism? It has become one in the same. Merely a differen't front in the same war. If you can't see that you have no business even discussing this subject. You should try to get a job back in the states as a Bush speech writer. Hmmm...on second thought, this last one was more Cheney's style, inaccurate, repetitive of the "official" mantra and dismissive. Great for selling the Kool aid (see attached) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #46 September 27, 2006 I'll give you that one. It was funny.........but we can do this ALL day. Bill Clinton FINALLY takes an interest in terrorism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #47 September 27, 2006 QuoteYep............keep spouting the Dem line. "You're doing it all wrong...........you're doing it all wrong!!!" and not have ANY clue how to do it better. Dems talk........Republicans do. I guess Dems see it as.......if you don't DO anything and keep blaming everyone else.......that just HAS to work! Kept Clinton in office for 8 years. People usually go on a little tirades when they have nothing more to add to the debate. Usually indicates nothing more productive is to add and the debate has been lost. The discussion was about how invading Iraq has worsened the War on terror and global terrorism. Your little tirade about different political parties really serves no point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #48 September 27, 2006 QuoteI'll give you that one. It was funny.........but we can do this ALL day. Bill Clinton FINALLY takes an interest in terrorism. Pretty good. But you'll have to admit that that vision of heaven is more appealing than just hanging around in a white robe and listening to new age music Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #49 September 27, 2006 QuotePeople usually go on a little tirades when they have nothing more to add to the debate. Like Clinton on Fox news? QuoteThe discussion was about how invading Iraq has worsened the War on terror and global terrorism. Did you expect the entire Muslim world to welcome you with open arms? I guess we shouldn't have invaded Germany because well.........then Germans everywhere might get pissed off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #50 September 27, 2006 QuoteBut you'll have to admit that that vision of heaven is more appealing than just hanging around in a white robe and listening to new age music Nahhh.........I hope there is Bacardi, Weed, and not a single virgin. I want dirty sluts that already know what they are doing! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
