SpeedRacer 1 #1 September 7, 2006 The 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. ---- so, it would seem that Involuntary Servitude is not allowed according to Lincoln's 13th amendment. Or is the government above all that? discuss. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 September 7, 2006 Why do you ask? Are you concerned about the Draft coming back? GWB said that as long as he's in office there will be no draft and it looks like he can probably keep that promise by screwing people already in the service (excuse me . . . holding them to their 8 year commitments whether or not they like it). The Democrats, if they get into office, aren't going to do anything as silly as that, but will probably do something else like reduce our other commitments around the globe as well as try to get out of Iraq as quickly as feasable. Another Republican, however, could re-instate the draft to continue the war on terror in Iraq without betraying the GWB legacy so . . . if you're worried about the draft . . . think about it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #3 September 7, 2006 The Constitution also has these little tidbits in Article I, Section 8: "To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water; To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years; To provide and maintain a navy; To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces; To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;" So, mixed in there (I think especially with the clause that I highlighted) provides some reasonable justifications for a draft that would make it Consitutional. On the other hand, I think there is some wiggle room with regard to the present situation where there is no declared war. I think a good argument is that Congress has to power to draft that is dependent on a Congressional declaration of war. The 13th Amendment doesn't address this part of the Constitution, so I don't think it would apply. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #4 September 7, 2006 even the part that you highlighted only allows them to "call forth" the militia, ie, tell them to go to a specific place to repel that invasion or that insurrection, etc. it does not say that they can use conscription to fill the ranks of the militia. also, it says they can call forth the militia to: "execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions", but it doesn't say anything about calling them forth to go overseas to police other countries. Thankfully, as has been pointed out, Bush has not called up the draft. But if we start on this campaign of launching pre-emptive wars, the next administration might not resist the temptation. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racer42 0 #5 September 7, 2006 I believe that Article I covers the legal aspects of the draft. Draft laws are not endless. Congress has the power to amend through legislation the specifics of a particular draft. The 13th Amendment was specifically aimed at slavery.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #6 September 7, 2006 Quote The 13th Amendment was specifically aimed at slavery. ....and also at "involuntary servitude." Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #7 September 7, 2006 QuoteQuote The 13th Amendment was specifically aimed at slavery. ....and also at "involuntary servitude." _______________________________________ That, refers to labor. Involuntary servitude pertained to housekeepers, cooks and maids or farm labor on the old plantations and elsewhere. It could also have been a means of paying off a debt. A son or daughter would be given to work-out a debt owed by the father. If, the Draft were un-constitutional, it damned sure would have been found as such during the Viet Nam debacle. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #8 September 7, 2006 Quote If, the Draft were un-constitutional, it damned sure would should have been found as such during the Viet Nam debacle. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #9 September 7, 2006 I typed that, the way I wanted to say it, thank you. The draft, is not un-constitutional. Neither was the 'Lottery'. I survived both. There's always Canada! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #10 September 8, 2006 Maybe I missed the Republicans calling for a Draft but I sure didn't miss the esteemed DEMOCRAT who had been calling for it last year nd the year before. (Keep in mind I dislike both of the major political parties and hope the smaller ones pick up enough seats in the Senate and HoR to make both idiotic groups take notice) (Yes Professor I know it is EXTREME optimism and wishful thinking)An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #11 September 8, 2006 If you live in this greatest nation of the earth, then you better serve your country when called upon, if you don't wanna serve your country then get the hell out of here......Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,108 #12 September 8, 2006 >if you don't wanna serve your country then get the hell out of here...... We'd need a new government if that happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #13 September 8, 2006 Only problem with that view is Politicians think they are "serving' us.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #14 September 8, 2006 QuoteOnly problem with that view is Politicians think they are "serving' us. ___________________________________ The politicians are serving themselves!! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #15 September 8, 2006 QuoteQuote___________________________________ The politicians are serving themselves!! Chuck Insightful! Former IL Governor George Ryan (R) just got sentenced to 6.5 years in Club Fed for corruption.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #16 September 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote___________________________________ The politicians are serving themselves!! Chuck Insightful! Former IL Governor George Ryan (R) just got sentenced to 6.5 years in Club Fed for corruption. ____________________________ Thanks! I just call 'em like I see 'em. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites racer42 0 #17 September 8, 2006 QuoteIf you live in this greatest nation of the earth, then you better serve your country when called upon, if you don't wanna serve your country then get the hell out of here...... I don't think that being in the military is the sole means of serving one's country. I think one can serve by being a law abiding citizen, educated in the responsibilities of citzenship and simply being a productive member of a civilized society. Since I am beyond draft age, that is not a personal concern for me. However I registered when I turned 18 and was prepared to do what was necessary if called upon. And I still am. I think I'll stay. As for politicians serving themselves, some do, most don't. Get out and vote. If you're really that sick of it, stand for an office.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fireemt97 0 #18 September 8, 2006 GWB is not screwing the soldier by making them complete the full eight year contract. When I signed up for the Military I knew I might have to serve eight years even though I signed up for four. If someone joins the military and does not know that then it is their fault for not asking questions and reading the contract before it was signed. If a soldier signed up and gets extended or called back into service from the Inactive Ready Reserve for however long, they should not be complaining. Yes, it may suck because you thought you had other plans but you knew what you got into. I'm not a die hard Republican, I vote for what I think is right. But a Democrat is not going to do a better job or make things come to an end any quicker. I had a month left in the service when I was told I might get extended past my four year contract because Saddam was kicking out inspectors AGAIN (and nothing was done AGAIN). I got lucky and was not but a few friends did because they had critical jobs and had already deployed to Kuwait. Oh by the way, this was while Clinton was getting sucked off (which is not a bad thing). So it happens under any President no matter what party they belong too.SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fireemt97 0 #19 September 8, 2006 I agree with racer42 100%SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #20 September 8, 2006 Only Congress can enact a draft. The President can ask Congress to do so, but he would have to make a very, very strong case for it, and Congress would then have to vote on it. The last time they voted, only two reps were in favor, the other 500+ were against. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
masterrig 1 #16 September 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote___________________________________ The politicians are serving themselves!! Chuck Insightful! Former IL Governor George Ryan (R) just got sentenced to 6.5 years in Club Fed for corruption. ____________________________ Thanks! I just call 'em like I see 'em. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites racer42 0 #17 September 8, 2006 QuoteIf you live in this greatest nation of the earth, then you better serve your country when called upon, if you don't wanna serve your country then get the hell out of here...... I don't think that being in the military is the sole means of serving one's country. I think one can serve by being a law abiding citizen, educated in the responsibilities of citzenship and simply being a productive member of a civilized society. Since I am beyond draft age, that is not a personal concern for me. However I registered when I turned 18 and was prepared to do what was necessary if called upon. And I still am. I think I'll stay. As for politicians serving themselves, some do, most don't. Get out and vote. If you're really that sick of it, stand for an office.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fireemt97 0 #18 September 8, 2006 GWB is not screwing the soldier by making them complete the full eight year contract. When I signed up for the Military I knew I might have to serve eight years even though I signed up for four. If someone joins the military and does not know that then it is their fault for not asking questions and reading the contract before it was signed. If a soldier signed up and gets extended or called back into service from the Inactive Ready Reserve for however long, they should not be complaining. Yes, it may suck because you thought you had other plans but you knew what you got into. I'm not a die hard Republican, I vote for what I think is right. But a Democrat is not going to do a better job or make things come to an end any quicker. I had a month left in the service when I was told I might get extended past my four year contract because Saddam was kicking out inspectors AGAIN (and nothing was done AGAIN). I got lucky and was not but a few friends did because they had critical jobs and had already deployed to Kuwait. Oh by the way, this was while Clinton was getting sucked off (which is not a bad thing). So it happens under any President no matter what party they belong too.SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fireemt97 0 #19 September 8, 2006 I agree with racer42 100%SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #20 September 8, 2006 Only Congress can enact a draft. The President can ask Congress to do so, but he would have to make a very, very strong case for it, and Congress would then have to vote on it. The last time they voted, only two reps were in favor, the other 500+ were against. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
racer42 0 #17 September 8, 2006 QuoteIf you live in this greatest nation of the earth, then you better serve your country when called upon, if you don't wanna serve your country then get the hell out of here...... I don't think that being in the military is the sole means of serving one's country. I think one can serve by being a law abiding citizen, educated in the responsibilities of citzenship and simply being a productive member of a civilized society. Since I am beyond draft age, that is not a personal concern for me. However I registered when I turned 18 and was prepared to do what was necessary if called upon. And I still am. I think I'll stay. As for politicians serving themselves, some do, most don't. Get out and vote. If you're really that sick of it, stand for an office.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fireemt97 0 #18 September 8, 2006 GWB is not screwing the soldier by making them complete the full eight year contract. When I signed up for the Military I knew I might have to serve eight years even though I signed up for four. If someone joins the military and does not know that then it is their fault for not asking questions and reading the contract before it was signed. If a soldier signed up and gets extended or called back into service from the Inactive Ready Reserve for however long, they should not be complaining. Yes, it may suck because you thought you had other plans but you knew what you got into. I'm not a die hard Republican, I vote for what I think is right. But a Democrat is not going to do a better job or make things come to an end any quicker. I had a month left in the service when I was told I might get extended past my four year contract because Saddam was kicking out inspectors AGAIN (and nothing was done AGAIN). I got lucky and was not but a few friends did because they had critical jobs and had already deployed to Kuwait. Oh by the way, this was while Clinton was getting sucked off (which is not a bad thing). So it happens under any President no matter what party they belong too.SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fireemt97 0 #19 September 8, 2006 I agree with racer42 100%SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #20 September 8, 2006 Only Congress can enact a draft. The President can ask Congress to do so, but he would have to make a very, very strong case for it, and Congress would then have to vote on it. The last time they voted, only two reps were in favor, the other 500+ were against. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
