mnealtx 0 #51 September 8, 2006 QuoteAh, so allowing troops to go into the field without (say) ammunition is perfectly explainable and acceptable? Gee, Bill... let's be a bit MORE obtuse... why not equate ammunition with B-1 bombers? Simply put - the HMMWV is a lightweight cargo truck - it was never designed for, nor was it meant to be on the battle line. Saying that AmGen should be instantly able to convert them to up-armor configuration is similar to putting the control fins for a 250lb bomb onto a 2000lb bomb and expecting the same performance. Quote"It's just too hard to change" doesn't fly with me. Where did I say it was "too hard"? I SAID that it can't happen instantly. Quote If they don't, and the war is optional, then you wait until they DO have what they need. So, from 1941 until 1943, the war with Japan was optional, since we didn't have enough carriers? I guess it's just as well that we "danced with who we brung" in that case, hmm? QuoteIf it's a vital item, then you arrange a contract such that the supplier (like Grumman, the one I worked for) carries inventory and can respond very quickly to increased demand. And when it's a Republican administration that does this, it's called "corruption" or "profiteering" (cue arguments about KBR base support contracts and cost overruns on such).Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bloody_trauma 2 #52 September 8, 2006 QuoteYou forgot to mention the 19000 wounded or the 350 dead contractors. Measuring the success of a war by the number of dead is a very American thing to do. But it doesn't really tell you anything. For a start if you take away the technalogical advances over the years since the other wars you mentioned such as body armour and vechical armour and medical advances alot of those 19,000 would also be dead. The war in Iraq was ill concieved and has turned into a disaster. No insult to the people who've died there or been injured but it doesn't change the fact that its just a matter of time now until the US declare 'victory for democracy' and run. Then its a matter of weeks at the very most until Iraq implodes. Its lost. !FUCK! you just pushed the no no button! I'm here every damn day treating the soldiers who get wounded, not in a hospital setting but at a first hand account, i am the first person that soldier see's and i'm the only one he wants to see at that very moment because i can give him something no one else out there can... expert medical care. a soldier that dies is gone forever. FOREVER. hard concept to grasp, i know. a soldier who is wounded can still breathe and is grateful for that breath. He is thankful beyond words to be alive, just to live, he could have fucking died! get it?! but he didn't and he may not be at the capacity that he once was, those that are wounded to such a degree that they have to stop fighting can be rehabilitated, You might as well include the number of soldiers who are evaced due to medical conditions like a ruptured disc or kidney stones, etc... but to say that an entire brigades worth of soldiers have been wounded is extremely vague. 2 of those people are me, last time i was here half of my battalion recieved wounds from combat ranging mostly from peppering schrapnel to serious injury requiring long term healthcare, ie amputees. which fall to the number of 2 from my battalion, a very small precentage of soldiers suffer there aggregious injuries while the majority is just flesh wounds of a minor degree, You are an outsider looking in and i can guarantee i can tell you alot more about wahts going on in this country than any news reporter can, the media know jack shit and only cares about its own purveyance and existance, for christ sake when that famous reported was seriously wounded they fucking interupted what they were broadcasting to alert the world that that person was seriously injured like anyone gives a fuck. when my comrades and i were wounded or killed no one interrupeted the flow of the media to tell the world that i was hurt. this is the same media that feeds you crap about how iraq is on the brink of a civil war... AND YOU BELIEVE IT! Youve never shook an iraqis hand or sat down to tea with a counsil leader, or talked to an Imam. youve never listened to the call to prayer that blares from the minerettes of the mosques and youve never held a grieving mother whos son was killed by bullet to the head by insurgents and was found on the street. you dont patrol hand in hand with the iraqi army soldiers, ministry of the interior soldiers and the fedayeen police/iraqi police. you think this country is headed for a meltdown and your wrong, this country is getting its legs and learning what freedom tastes like. U KNOW NOTHING and you need to STFU about shit you dont know anything about. You also need to site your sources for these figures cuz it looks like you just cut some numbers out and placed them where you thought they fit, it has nothing to do with being american, it has to do with stating the facts. all you know is what you see on the news and you are ill informed, Come walk a mile in my boots and i guarantee youll have some POV on which to base your opinions on, but i said it before you are on the outside looking in and speculating. SPECULATOR! Taking away the technological advances is not going to happen, those advances came about as a direct result of those wars, this war is helping to further technology more than you can ever fathom, on all fronts medical, computerized, all over the place new things are being created to minimize death. we train, adapt and over come. our training is second to none in the world, we deploy engage and destroy the enemies of the united states of america.Fly it like you stole it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #53 September 8, 2006 Quotewhen youve never shook an iraqis hand or sat down to tea with a counsil leader, or talked to an Imam. youve never listened to the call to prayer that blares from the minerettes of the mosques and youve never held a grieving mother whos son was killed by bullet to the head I've done all those things (many times) including holding the head of her son, so maybe you can try and get a grip? Nothing in your long and understandably emotional response alters the fact that body counts are a poor way to measure the success or failure of a war. As you've asked for scources of the numbers of wounded and killed here you go... http://icasualties.org/oif/ What is it with you US service personnel that think that you're the only ones ever experienced what you're going through? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bloody_trauma 2 #54 September 8, 2006 well maybe looks are decieving, your posts just dont point me to believe that have been in the service of a coutries army. other than that ubiquitous reference to you having served let alone been deployed. but if you say youve done those thing i believe you. no need to show me any different so if waht i say is not true of you then disregard. and dont tell me to get a grip. who gives two shits if my post was long or emotional, that doesnt mean im a psychoFly it like you stole it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #55 September 8, 2006 wearing ones heart on a sleeve makes it very difficult to defend.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bloody_trauma 2 #56 September 8, 2006 thats just the way i feel and im not ashamed of itFly it like you stole it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #57 September 8, 2006 Quotethats just the way i feel and im not ashamed of it Nor should you be I know that calling Professor Kallend mathmatically inept, would be a stupid thing to do. Acting as if Bill Von has no idea about engineering, is wrong as well. I know some of you think a soldier doing what could be a first second or third tour in raq has no idea of what is going on, AND YOU ARE WRONG. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #58 September 8, 2006 Quotethats just the way i feel and im not ashamed of it dont mistake shame for stupidity. wearing ones heart on a sleeve is stupid.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bloody_trauma 2 #59 September 8, 2006 whatever... gad damn opinions! i want to squash them all and be a dictator! RAAAAAAAAA!Fly it like you stole it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #60 September 8, 2006 Quotewell maybe looks are decieving, your posts just dont point me to believe that have been in the service of a coutries army. other than that ubiquitous reference to you having served let alone been deployed. but if you say youve done those thing i believe you. no need to show me any different so if waht i say is not true of you then disregard. and dont tell me to get a grip. who gives two shits if my post was long or emotional, that doesnt mean im a psycho No one is calling you a psycho.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #61 September 8, 2006 QuoteQuotethats just the way i feel and im not ashamed of it dont mistake shame for stupidity. wearing ones heart on a sleeve is stupid. No offence mate but dealing with that shit day in and day out sometimes you just got to let it out or you'll explode. It is easy in everyday life to keep ones emotions in check and be guarded. When you're confronted with a person whos shot up or just sick they don't care what you've just been doing, they don't give a shit whats going on in your head or that you've just had to walk away from a man who nothing more can be done for. Or that you've just held a baby whos burnt to death. All that person wants from you is for you to help them, that means that whatever shit you're going though emotionaly you've got to bury it, deal with it later. You've got to be the same with every patient as you were with the first of the day. When you add the stress and at times fear of it hapening to you into the mix and reduce your sleep to a quarter of what you normaly live on (and what you get is fitful at best) you sometimes don't know where your heart is, you need to let off the presure or you'll just break down. Try doing that day after day night after night, week after week month after month, then take a look down and see where your heart is. Don't give this guy shit, the point is if it is on his sleeve don't take a swipe at it, the fact is this man does have a heart and thats what counts.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
