67 years ago today

[kallend 2,182]

The UK (and most of the Dominions) and France declared war on the Third Reich.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Skyrad 0]

In 1752 This day never happened nor the next 10 as England adopted Gregorian Calendar. What a pity Germany didn't invade Poland in 1752 then we wouldn't have gone to war.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[tbrown 26]

Quote

In 1752 This day never happened nor the next 10 as England adopted Gregorian Calendar. What a pity Germany didn't invade Poland in 1752 then we wouldn't have gone to war.

There were riots in the streets because people believed their lives had actually been shortened by ten days and they wanted their ten days back.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Skyrad 0]

Talk about a lack of social conscience, ten days in return for no WWII, what were they like?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[micro 0]

Quote

The UK (and most of the Dominions) and France declared war on the Third Reich.

Oh is that all? I thought you were going to tell us that today was your birthday!

Seriously, thank God for brave souls who stood up to such evil.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[kallend 2,182]

Quote

Quote

The UK (and most of the Dominions) and France declared war on the Third Reich.

Oh is that all? I thought you were going to tell us that today was your birthday!

Seriously, thank God for brave souls who stood up to such evil.

And the leaders didn't have to lie to the people to justify it, either.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[miked10270 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

The UK (and most of the Dominions) and France declared war on the Third Reich.

Seriously, thank God for brave souls who stood up to such evil.

And the leaders didn't have to lie to the people to justify it, either.

True... Although there were a few raised British eyebrows at the thought of fighting WITH the French AGAINST the Germans! That was the true measure of Hitler's evil!

But oh for the days when politicians & premiers didn't lie, and would resign their position if they fucked up!.. THEN still offer to serve their successor in any capacity they could!!!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

The UK (and most of the Dominions) and France declared war on the Third Reich.

What led up to that moment?

Years of appeasement that didn't work to stop Hitler's aggression. Because everyone was too afraid to confront him, after what happened in WWI.

And now here we are again, with aggressive dictators in N. Korea and Iran, threatening to go nuclear. And all the liberals can think to do is more appeasement.

Somewhere down the road we'll have to go to war again, because people today are too afraid to confront evil early-on, and to do something about it before it gets ugly.

[DZJ 0]

Quote

What led up to that moment?

Years of appeasement that didn't work to stop Hitler's aggression. Because everyone was too afraid to confront him, after what heppened in WWI.

Is that such an unreasonable position?

[Skyrad 0]

Neither Korea nor Iran have invaded their neighbors in recent years, attcking them would have nothing to do with defending us and everything to do with pushing the Neo Con Pax Americana agenda.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kallend 2,182]

Quote

Quote

The UK (and most of the Dominions) and France declared war on the Third Reich.

What led up to that moment?

Years of appeasement that didn't work to stop Hitler's aggression. Because everyone was too afraid to confront him, after what heppened in WWI.

And now here we are again, with aggressive dictators in N. Korea and Iran, threatening to go nuclear. And all the liberals can think to do is more appeasement.

Somewhere down the road we'll have to go to war again, because people today are too afraid to confront evil early-on, and to do something about it before it gets ugly.

Yes, Bush's foreign policy of "I wanna be a wartime president" has certainly paid off in Iraq.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

During the years that lead to the outbreak of WW2 Germany incarcerated a large number of innocent people without trial or recourse to accepted civilized rules of Due Process. They also unilaterally attacked and invaded other countries.


Deja vu?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Somewhere down the road we'll have to go to war again

Did I miss something. I thought we were already at war in Iraq and Afghanistan (Lebanon as well?).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[rushmc 23]

YES!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DZJ 0]

You do know what happened during the First World War, don't you?

[Gawain 0]

Quote

You do know what happened during the First World War, don't you?

Yes, and it set the stage for WWII unfortunately. 9 million dead in WWI wasn't enough. It took another 62+ million in WWII to "do the job", alas even in the face of such atrocities, it seems like a lot of people have forgotten the cost of such "inaction".

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[rushmc 23]

Stated well! Thank You!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DZJ 0]

Quote

Yes, and it set the stage for WWII unfortunately. 9 million dead in WWI wasn't enough.

Thank you for illustrating the point. Given the never before seen carnage of the First World War which, killed, wounded or scarred for life incomprehensible numbers of people, quite how people feel able to criticise post-war politicians for wanting to avoid more of the same is beyond me.

Quote

It took another 62+ million in WWII to "do the job", alas even in the face of such atrocities, it seems like a lot of people have forgotten the cost of such "inaction".

Alas, others still seem compelled to make history teach the lessons they want it to, rather than realise that it only teaches such lessons long after they are needed.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

Yes, and it set the stage for WWII unfortunately. 9 million dead in WWI wasn't enough.

Thank you for illustrating the point. Given the never before seen carnage of the First World War which, killed, wounded or scarred for life incomprehensible numbers of people, quite how people feel able to criticise post-war politicians for wanting to avoid more of the same is beyond me.

Quote

It took another 62+ million in WWII to "do the job", alas even in the face of such atrocities, it seems like a lot of people have forgotten the cost of such "inaction".

Alas, others still seem compelled to make history teach the lessons they want it to, rather than realise that it only teaches such lessons long after they are needed.

Dude, the world we are living in now, has Head's of State actively questioning whether the Holocaust happened. Cabinet members of the EUROPEAN countries that started WWII compared others to Third Reich figures. People are forgetting and it's inexcusable.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Skyrad 0]

At least one DZ.commer thinks the holocaust was a joke.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2416905#2416905

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[DZJ 0]

Maybe I've not made myself clear (and none of this isn't meant as a dig at you in particular) it's just that I often see people trying to infer lessons from history that are questionable at best and perverse at worst. I just feel that such 'lessons' are often so ridiculously politically loaded as to make them almost completely meaningless (Saddam = Hitler strikes me as a particular example).

But anyway, I fear we're taking the thread in a wrong direction, so let me say I am inexpressibly grateful to those who fought for what was right in the war of 1939 - 45.

[miked10270 0]

Quote

Quote

The UK (and most of the Dominions) and France declared war on the Third Reich.

What led up to that moment?

Years of appeasement that didn't work to stop Hitler's aggression. Because everyone was too afraid to confront him, after what happened in WWI.

What DID lead up to "that" moment was The Treaty of Versailles which was expressly designed to "Subjurgate Germany for a Century" with demands for war reparations. The resulting & repeated collapses of the German economy under this burden with millions of germans starving. Thus, in desperation, they voted for anyone who'd promise "Bread & Work"! The promise to return to order and a comfortable life.

They'd had democracy thrust on them and starved under it, so it lost credibility to them. Hence their stomachs voted for a dictatorship and a command economy. The choice was Communism (which seemed to be working in Russia at the time) or National Socialism (favoured by businessmen who wanted to keep ownership of their businesses).

As for "appeasement", that was a term which only appeared AFTER the outbreak of war. Prior to that, it was recognised that the Versailles Treaty should be abandoned. Germany SHOULD have Alsace returned to it. The people were German (It had been confiscated by France after WWI as part war reparations). The Anschluss was logical - again on grounds of ethnicity. Same with the SUdetenland, AND The Danzig Corridor & East Prussia. Both were German lands confiscated after WWI.

It was only when Germany annexed the remainder of Czechoslovakia that threats were issued (Munich, 1938 WAS a British & french Threat of war which Hitler deflected by a bare-faced lie).

But the terms of the treaty between Britain, France & Poland was such as to guarantee war. In effect; "If Germany tries to get back what you stole off them, we'll fight!"

In effect, Britain & France did the right thing in fighting to destroy an extremist dictatorship (National Socialism), but for entirely the wrong & unsupportable reasons. Hmmm... Does this sound similar to Iraq?

The REAL lesson from this is the different way (West) Germany was handled in 1945. Instead of war reparations & enforced penury for generations, Germany was rebuilt & it's economy supported. Making a people comfortable makes them moderate.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Frenchy68 0]

Fairly good points. I would add that the level of the trauma caused by the losses of WWI is hard to comprehend in today's world. The amount of casualties in men "in their prime" during WWI in France and England (and in Germany, Italy, etc... for that matter) reached double digits in percentage of the 20 to 40 year old male population. There was a genuine desire from the majority to avoid re-living what had happened 20 years before (on top of having a shortage of men in their prime to fight such war).
Germany felt cheated by the treaty of Versailles (and it was certainly abusive in many ways), and as Mike mentioned, went through extreme economic and political hardship. Combine all three elements made it a perfect recipe for a dictatureship to step in and promise revenge, stability, and a return to pride.
The German army was smart enough to make up for its lack of fighting manpower by coming up with war tactics which to this day still seem to be the standard (highly mechanized for its time, air dominance, quick and powerful strikes, trauma factor, etc...).
Hardly the same set of circumstances in Iran and North Korea.

As a footnote, yes, France took Alsace and Lorraine from Germany in 1918. But that was because the Germans (then Prussians) took it from France in the war of 1870.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[shropshire 0]

Amazingly, we (UK) are still paying for the 2nd World War (actually, our last Lend Lease payment is due at the back end of this year)... so not only did Germany escape crippling reparations the second time around, but the winners footed the bill instead....

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[wmw999 2,602]

My father fought in WW2, and he regularly says that while he's proud of how the US (his perspective) mobilized and fought in the war, he's even prouder of how the victors then turned around and helped the losers in the war.

Not a bad thing to keep in mind.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)