Snippets from today's news

[kallend 2,182]

South gets even fatter:
www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-obesity30aug30,0,5160221.story?coll=la-story-footer

which is a problem because there are more Americans without health insurance:
www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2006-08-29-health-insurance-coverage_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

all the while kids are getting dumber:
news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=155081
www.dailynews.com/news/ci_4258420

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Royd 0]

Well, professor, what is the ultimate solution to these problems, from your point of veiw?

[lawrocket 3]

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South gets even fatter:
www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-obesity30aug30,0,5160221.story?coll=la-story-footer
You know, John, but for methamphetamine, that number would probably be pushing 50 percent."

This is the shit you get when the policy is that others will pay for your lack of responsibility. I can get fat and diabetic, which means I can't work and I go on disability. Then when I get sick, I can't pay for it so the government will. Is it odd that the more socialist we become, the worse this problem gets?

Experts attribute this to poverty. I attribute it to socialism.[/

which is a problem because there are more Americans without health insurance:
www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2006-08-29-health-insurance-coverage_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA
I thought insurance companies were evil, anyway. Ever notice politicians saying how evil corporations are and especially insurance companies, and yet bemoan the fact that millions of Americans are uninsured?

all the while kids are getting dumber:
news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=155081
www.dailynews.com/news/ci_4258420
Such is the inevitable consequence of our continuing societal effort to drop standards. Proof of the drop in standards? Does your university plan to radically cut it's number of incoming freshmen because of this drop in test scores? Or, will it lower its standards and accept roughly the same number of kids, thereby insuring that the idiots move forward?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,182]

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Well, professor, what is the ultimate solution to these problems, from your point of veiw?

First admit there's a problem.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,132]

>Well, professor, what is the ultimate solution to these problems, from your point of veiw?

I know, you didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway:

Education.

Teach kids how to eat and what happens when you never exercise, eat crap, drink and smoke. Teach them basic care and maintenance of a human body - how to not get sick, how to stay fit, how to prevent problems later. Teach them how to set up a 401k, how to pay for health insurance, how to cook. (And in the course of doing all this, you solve the last problem as well.)

There is nothing more important to our future as a country as education. Sure, it doesn't pay off next week, but in 20 years, the amount of education we can get today's kids will determine how competitive we are, whether we make good decisions as a country, and whether the next generation will be able to pay for this generation's excesses.

[Shotgun 1]

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Education.

Teach kids how to eat and what happens when you never exercise, eat crap, drink and smoke. Teach them basic care and maintenance of a human body - how to not get sick, how to stay fit, how to prevent problems later.

Education from who? Schools or parents?

I'm pretty sure this stuff is already being taught in schools, and has been for a long time. Whether it is being reinforced at home by parents is another story, and I don't think that there is any way to force parents to teach their kids to have good habits.

[billvon 3,132]

>Education from who? Schools or parents?

Both! And from the media, and from 'alternate sources' (websites, free clinics etc.)

>I'm pretty sure this stuff is already being taught in schools, and has been for a long time.

For the most part, yes. But there are periodic purges where some group wants only readin, 'ritin and 'ritmetik taught and makes some progress on removing things like food science or health from curricula.

>and I don't think that there is any way to force parents to teach their
>kids to have good habits.

Agreed. But we can help the parents who _do_ want to teach their kids good habits.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Well, professor, what is the ultimate solution to these problems, from your point of veiw?

I know, you didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway:

Education.

Teach kids how to eat and what happens when you never exercise, eat crap, drink and smoke. Teach them basic care and maintenance of a human body - how to not get sick, how to stay fit, how to prevent problems later. Teach them how to set up a 401k, how to pay for health insurance, how to cook. (And in the course of doing all this, you solve the last problem as well.)

There is nothing more important to our future as a country as education. Sure, it doesn't pay off next week, but in 20 years, the amount of education we can get today's kids will determine how competitive we are, whether we make good decisions as a country, and whether the next generation will be able to pay for this generation's excesses.

I couldn't agree with you more. Problem is, why are our public schools failing so miserably in this area? Isn't it time to take a look at privatizing our educational system?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Education from who? Schools or parents?

Both! And from the media, and from 'alternate sources' (websites, free clinics etc.)

>I'm pretty sure this stuff is already being taught in schools, and has been for a long time.

For the most part, yes. But there are periodic purges where some group wants only readin, 'ritin and 'ritmetik taught and makes some progress on removing things like food science or health from curricula.

>and I don't think that there is any way to force parents to teach their
>kids to have good habits.

Agreed. But we can help the parents who _do_ want to teach their kids good habits.

I have never heard anyone advocate removing food science or health from the corricula. The information is out there and has been for quite some time. All one has to do is have the desire to get the information. I think part of the problem is the precieved invincibility many young people have regarding their health.

[Shotgun 1]

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>Education from who? Schools or parents?

Both! And from the media, and from 'alternate sources' (websites, free clinics etc.)

This is already being done. There is information everywhere for anyone who wants to learn more about health issues.

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>I'm pretty sure this stuff is already being taught in schools, and has been for a long time.

For the most part, yes. But there are periodic purges where some group wants only readin, 'ritin and 'ritmetik taught and makes some progress on removing things like food science or health from curricula.

I think it is a very small percentage of kids who are not learning about health in their schools, so I doubt that this has much to do with the overall problem.

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>and I don't think that there is any way to force parents to teach their
>kids to have good habits.

Agreed. But we can help the parents who _do_ want to teach their kids good habits.

Again, the help is already out there for the parents who do want to teach their kids good habits.

But I'm guessing that there is a pretty wide variety of what parents consider to be "good habits." And there are many parents who don't want to (or are not able to) change their own bad habits in order to set an example for their kids.

I agree that education is crucial, but I don't think that a lack of education is really the problem.

[kallend 2,182]

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>Education from who? Schools or parents?

Both! And from the media, and from 'alternate sources' (websites, free clinics etc.)

This is already being done. There is information everywhere for anyone who wants to learn more about health issues.

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>I'm pretty sure this stuff is already being taught in schools, and has been for a long time.

For the most part, yes. But there are periodic purges where some group wants only readin, 'ritin and 'ritmetik taught and makes some progress on removing things like food science or health from curricula.

I think it is a very small percentage of kids who are not learning about health in their schools, so I doubt that this has much to do with the overall problem.

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>and I don't think that there is any way to force parents to teach their
>kids to have good habits.

Agreed. But we can help the parents who _do_ want to teach their kids good habits.

Again, the help is already out there for the parents who do want to teach their kids good habits.

But I'm guessing that there is a pretty wide variety of what parents consider to be "good habits." And there are many parents who don't want to (or are not able to) change their own bad habits in order to set an example for their kids.

I agree that education is crucial, but I don't think that a lack of education is really the problem.

Education these days is assessed according to its outcomes (what is learnt), not its inputs (what is taught). The outcomes suggest that the education is not at all effective.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Shotgun 1]

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Education these days is assessed according to its outcomes (what is learnt), not its inputs (what is taught). The outcomes suggest that the education is not at all effective.

So what do we do about it?

I know you said "admit there's a problem," but get _who_ to admit that there is a problem?

The parents who care are likely already doing everything they can to make sure their kids are healthy and educated. How do you go about changing the mentality of the parents who don't care or who don't think that it's a problem?

[lawrocket 3]

I know - you didn't ask me, either. But I think I've got a better solution to these problems:

How about starting by enforcing standards? How about setting examples for kids? You are a lazy bum? There is a good chance your kids will be, too.

I think "education" is overrated on a lot of things. Don't just tell kids to brush their teeth. Make sure that they do.

Don't just watch television and tell the kids to go outside and play. Take them outside and play with them.

Go for walks with your kids.

Prepare decent meals for yourself and your children. You may find youself feeling better for doing what you can for your child's health, and you may even find out that lower blood pressure and increased kidney function make you feel better.

How about getting a job? Then get the insurance benefits that go with it.

Maybe they can even do things like read books to their kids or take them on hikes or ride a bike on the weekends. It's cheaper and healthier, although more inconvenient, than simply buying a Sega for them to play.

And then people will find that their children are healthier an better people. They'll probably even be educated!

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,132]

>This is already being done. There is information everywhere for
>anyone who wants to learn more about health issues.

Right; the challenge is getting it to them. In terms of media, programs like "schoolhouse rock" worked well in the 70's and 80's.

>I agree that education is crucial, but I don't think that a lack
>of education is really the problem.

Well, we are certainly seeing a lack of _effective_ education. That doesn't mean we need more education, or need to spend more money - but we do need to figure out how to make it work better.

[billvon 3,132]

>I think "education" is overrated on a lot of things. Don't just tell
>kids to brush their teeth. Make sure that they do. Don't just watch
> television and tell the kids to go outside and play. Take them
> outside and play with them.

Right, but that's all part of the education that every kid gets. Kids don't learn conflict resolution because their parents tell them "don't raise your voice" or "be reasonable" - they watch their mother deal with someone who dinged her minivan in the parking lot. They don't learn to be kind to others because someone tells them, they learn it when they watch their parents deal with cashiers, waiters and bank tellers.

Likewise, if you tell them about eating a balanced meal, then give them TV dinners every night they won't learn much. But if the snacks they have available are bananas, nuts and cherry tomatoes instead of Doritos, then they are more likely to actually learn (and apply) what you're telling them about eating well.

Educating kids is a long process, and the majority of it doesn't happen in a classroom (although that's still a very important part.) We have to improve the whole process, not just one part.

[lawrocket 3]

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if you tell them about eating a balanced meal, then give them TV dinners every night they won't learn much. But if the snacks they have available are bananas, nuts and cherry tomatoes instead of Doritos, then they are more likely to actually learn (and apply) what you're telling them about eating well.

Exactly. And from my experience, it takes serious freaking effort to do that. IT is hard taking my son out to play when it's 7:00 at night and I just got home from work. It is difficult to put together a meal when he is refusing many foods and we are tired. The TV dinner and Doritos are an easy way for me to relax and shut him up so I can do a crossword puzzle or a sudoku.

But I also have the "education" to know that in 20 years, I am not going to regret the feeling of utter exhaustion I had last night.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,182]

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if you tell them about eating a balanced meal, then give them TV dinners every night they won't learn much. But if the snacks they have available are bananas, nuts and cherry tomatoes instead of Doritos, then they are more likely to actually learn (and apply) what you're telling them about eating well.

Exactly. And from my experience, it takes serious freaking effort to do that. IT is hard taking my son out to play when it's 7:00 at night and I just got home from work. It is difficult to put together a meal when he is refusing many foods and we are tired. The TV dinner and Doritos are an easy way for me to relax and shut him up so I can do a crossword puzzle or a sudoku.

But I also have the "education" to know that in 20 years, I am not going to regret the feeling of utter exhaustion I had last night.

Two sides to this. One is providing more effective education, and the other is reducing the number of contrary messages the kids receive.

And what about the SAT score declining?


It's interesting that the worst obesity is found in the southern states with the lowest (average) formal educational achievement, the lowest median household incomes and the highest rates for no health insurance (Souce - US Bureau of Census, 2006).

Those states are also the least likely to be "liberal".

IOW, the three stories I posted are strongly correlated.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lindsey 0]

South gets even fatter:

Yep. I can vouch for that. My very own ass is larger than it was last year. No more skinny jeans for this chunk :)

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Royd 0]

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There is nothing more important to our future as a country as education. Sure, it doesn't pay off next week, but in 20 years, the amount of education we can get today's kids will determine how competitive we are, whether we make good decisions as a country, and whether the next generation will be able to pay for this generation's excesses.

Agreed. A senior who can't add a column of numbers, or do multiplication or long division isn't educated. At some point we actually have to decide that letting machines do everything for us is not good.

In the year 2525 if man is still alive....


Every morning should be started with a serious exercise program. No excuses. Fires up the metabolism.

Eliminate all chemically created foods from the school system. If it takes a dictionary to figure out what it is, you shouldn't be eating it.

Sounds like getting back to the basics of life is the direction to go.

Of course, we have parents who despise these attitudes and values, and will sabotage them at every turn.

Fat adult, fat child, fat dog.

[lawrocket 3]

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Two sides to this. One is providing more effective education, and the other is reducing the number of contrary messages the kids receive.

True. How do you do that? Communist countries are good at ensuring that contrary messages don't get through. I don't think anyone wants that.

And poor countries by their nature have contrary messages limited. From a technological standpoint, we have plenty of opportunity for contrary messages to come across.

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And what about the SAT score declining?

Parents and educators get the blame for this.

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It's interesting that the worst obesity is found in the southern states with the lowest (average) formal educational achievement, the lowest median household incomes and the highest rates for no health insurance (Souce - US Bureau of Census, 2006).

So, why does it surprise you that the least educated, least employed, and least industrialized region of the country has the least health insurance? And why does it surprise you that they are the most obese?

Did it surprise you a year ago that people parked themselves on the roofs of their homes, overpasses, the SuperDome, Convention Center, etc., waiting for help to arrive? Did it surprise you that the poorest, least educated, and most underemployed were the ones that lacked the resources to take care of themselves for a damned hurricane?

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Those states are also the least likely to be "liberal".

For good reason. Is it possible that many southerners are happy being simple and poor. Is it possible that there are plenty of southern folks who want to be left alone to farm? Perhaps they still have lingering cultural resentment over being laid waste by the federal government.

Plenty of people aren't like you or me, john. I know people who would be happy getting 40 acres, digging a pond, and farming. Others are content to fix cars for a living. Some like trailer park living.

The way to get ahead is to get educated. Plenty do that through on-the-job training.

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IOW, the three stories I posted are strongly correlated.

I agree. There is a stereotype of laid-back southern culture. So they don't live in places with a population density of 25k per mile. They take life slow. Let em.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Trent 0]

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For good reason. Is it possible that many southerners are happy being simple and poor. Is it possible that there are plenty of southern folks who want to be left alone to farm?

IMO, a VERY overlooked reality down here. Sure, everyone needs a decent education... but not everyone has the need to jump into the rat-race and become the next big thing. I know plenty of people that are what people from the Northeast would consider poor and simple, but they are happy and have no desire to do anything differently.

Can you imagine what would happen if everyone in the US was an MBA, JD, MD, or PHD? We'd get a lot of thinking done, but no one would want to do the dirty work of growing food, making the things the big-brained invented, or trucking things from coast to coast. We'd all be a bunch of managers who "deserved" a large income because we went to school.

Oh, hello again!

[lawrocket 3]

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Can you imagine what would happen if everyone in the US was an MBA, JD, MD, or PHD?

I shudder at the thought of a nation occupied by people like me. I hate my attitude....

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,132]

>Can you imagine what would happen if everyone in the US was an MBA, JD, MD, or PHD?

Would be pretty boring!

[Trent 0]

You guys know what I mean... all managers with no one to manage... nothing will get done. We had "service" as our industry for a while since we let manufacturing go down the toilet, but now all that's being farmed out to India.

There's nothing wrong with choosing a vocation and being good at it and happy with it over choosing a college degree.

Like lawrocket said, the statistic might be misleading because some people are happy where they are.

Oh, hello again!