DNA Database

[Sockpuppet 0]

So...not tha this has been touted anywhere but if your government started to DNA test all babies when they were born would you support this.

Would it lead to a reduction in crime or solved cases. Or be an invasion of privacy.

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Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Or be an invasion of privacy.

There is no way I would let anyone take a sample of my child's DNA and leave it in a "govt database". I build software systems for a living. Mistakes are GOING to happen when govt officials start putting data into databases. And those mistakes are going to be very painful for the people involved in them.

We are all engines of karma

[masterrig 1]

I think, it would be a great idea. Not just for law enforcement but, in other areas. With the advancements made in DNA research and study, a database such as you suggest could be very beneficial. Granted, like anything else, when you enter-in the 'human factor' when dealing with this or any other information, there will be mistakes. I just think, the benefits could outweigh the bad of something like this.


Chuck

[PhreeZone 20]

Having a DNA database from birth would be a windfall to the insruance companies since they could prove that all your medical conditions were "preexisting" anc could exclude you from coverage right from birth.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[pirana 0]

Maybe, yes, and yes.

The big question, for which the correct answer is a highly personal thing is:

Would it be worth it?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[masterrig 1]

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Having a DNA database from birth would be a windfall to the insruance companies since they could prove that all your medical conditions were "preexisting" anc could exclude you from coverage right from birth.

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Any more, it seems as though, insurance companies are looking for more and more ways to get-out of paying customers for whatever coverage. On the other hand, a data-base like this could prove 'no' pre-existing problems. It's probably a 'double-edged' sword but, I still see where the 'good' benefits could out-weigh the bad. Besides, whenever the insurance companies see where they are going to have to pay-off big, like Katrina... they 'bail' on their customers. To me, insurance companies are a necessary evil. This is where the lobbyists come into play. Make it good for the insurance companies and screw the customer.


Chuck

[billvon 3,132]

>I think, it would be a great idea.

Collecting the information and not linking it to any one person would be a great idea. At birth, do a DNA swab, sequence it and keep the data _without_ any identification attached. Give the parents a CD of the results. Then the medical community has a database of our genome and how it's changing, and can do epidemiological work to figure out (for example) how many people would benefit from a new Alzheimer's drug. Parents would have the data available if they choose to give it to a doctor in the future, to help determine the best course of treatment for their kids.

Collecting the information and putting it into an FBI database with names attached - bad idea.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Collecting the information and not linking it to any one person would be a great idea. At birth, do a DNA swab, sequence it and keep the data _without_ any identification attached. Give the parents a CD of the results. Then the medical community has a database of our genome and how it's changing, and can do epidemiological work to figure out (for example) how many people would benefit from a new Alzheimer's drug. Parents would have the data available if they choose to give it to a doctor in the future, to help determine the best course of treatment for their kids.

Collecting the information and putting it into an FBI database with names attached - bad idea.

Excellent idea, Bill. I would support this.

We are all engines of karma

[masterrig 1]

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>I think, it would be a great idea.

Collecting the information and not linking it to any one person would be a great idea. At birth, do a DNA swab, sequence it and keep the data _without_ any identification attached. Give the parents a CD of the results. Then the medical community has a database of our genome and how it's changing, and can do epidemiological work to figure out (for example) how many people would benefit from a new Alzheimer's drug. Parents would have the data available if they choose to give it to a doctor in the future, to help determine the best course of treatment for their kids.

Collecting the information and putting it into an FBI database with names attached - bad idea.

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That's a very good 'pro' for a DNA - database. There is a great deal of good, could come from your idea. As for a law enforcement DNA - database, I think, there needs to be a lot of thought put into that part. DNA, has helped law enforcement a great deal. It can help identify victims, too.


Chuck

[Scoop 0]

I used to be pro database coming from a law enforcement point of view, but yeah, mistakes do happen. I know of one incident where a very high profile UK murder suspects DNA sample was lost. Turned out was in the wrong fridge but noone found it for weeks

I can see it being very effective, for example in rape, murder cases or incidents of violence where blood/hair/skin/saliva is left but at the cost of everyones anonimity being taken away? I'm not sure if thats justified

[StreetScooby 5]

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As for a law enforcement DNA - database, I think, there needs to be a lot of thought put into that part. DNA, has helped law enforcement a great deal. It can help identify victims, too.

If you're a convicted felon, your DNA goes into the law enforcement database.

We are all engines of karma

[Scoop 0]

But they need to know who you are before your convicted

You've got to get caught that first instance

[kallend 2,182]

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Collecting the information and not linking it to any one person would be a great idea. At birth, do a DNA swab, sequence it and keep the data _without_ any identification attached. Give the parents a CD of the results. Then the medical community has a database of our genome and how it's changing, and can do epidemiological work to figure out (for example) how many people would benefit from a new Alzheimer's drug. Parents would have the data available if they choose to give it to a doctor in the future, to help determine the best course of treatment for their kids.

Collecting the information and putting it into an FBI database with names attached - bad idea.

Excellent idea, Bill. I would support this.

And we would trust the government? Why? The govt. already spies on citizens without warrant and keeps a database of financial transactions. They didn't tell us about it either, until the whistle was blown.

And even IF the govt. could be trusted (which I doubt) there's going to be some self-appointed do-gooder who'll decide that the ID data needs to be available anyway and will store it away. Just like cases in both TX and IL where crime lab workers decided that the police needed help on some cases so they faked test results to indicate guilt.

Governments of all stripes over the years have shown very clearly that they cannot be trusted.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

My thoughts exactly

[masterrig 1]

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I used to be pro database coming from a law enforcement point of view, but yeah, mistakes do happen. I know of one incident where a very high profile UK murder suspects DNA sample was lost. Turned out was in the wrong fridge but noone found it for weeks

I can see it being very effective, for example in rape, murder cases or incidents of violence where blood/hair/skin/saliva is left but at the cost of everyones anonimity being taken away? I'm not sure if thats justified

___________________________

I can see the pros and cons. As I said earlier, when you enter in the 'human factor', mistakes will be made. Not just in law enforcement! What about the medical profession? Look at all the cases and law suits where instruments have been left inside people, wrong medications given, the wrong leg amputated. Yet, when something like this comes-up and law enforcement is mentioned, folks tend to freak-out. Suddenly, everyone could go to prison or worse yet... the gas chamber! Ain't gonna happen. Too much prison over-crowding! Seriously, the cops need all the help they can get. We want serial killers caught, we want the killer of the Ramsey girl caught, along with rapists and child molestors. Whenever anything is mentioned that might help police do their jobs and catch creeps and criminals people go nuts thinking their rights are being infringed upon. You can't have it both ways!


Chuck


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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As for a law enforcement DNA - database, I think, there needs to be a lot of thought put into that part. DNA, has helped law enforcement a great deal. It can help identify victims, too.

If you're a convicted felon, your DNA goes into the law enforcement database.

________________________________

Correct. I think, DNA should be collected for arrest of any felony. Not that ever living person at birth have their DNA entered. There has to be some 'reason' to it. Not just collecting DNA all willy-nilly.


Chuck

[Scoop 0]

I agree, people will slip the net initially but no doubt will go on to commit other comparitavely minor offences and then be put in the spotlight for previous ones. It happens today. Its not instant justice, but it happens

[kallend 2,182]

It's not about mistakes, it's about deliberate abuse and the fear IS WELL JUSTIFIED.

www.corpus-delicti.com/forensic_fraud.html

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

Welcome to the great Eugenics debate..... and I vote no.


No matter how secure 'they' say the data will be, it will be begged, borrowed or stolen by the 'wrong' people for nefarious reasons... Insurance companies, employers etc.. etc..

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[masterrig 1]

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It's not about mistakes, it's about deliberate abuse and the fear IS WELL JUSTIFIED.

www.corpus-delicti.com/forensic_fraud.html

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Abuse, deliberate or otherwise, is all around us, to varying degrees... no doubt. We all get 'abuse' in one form or another... it's part of living.
Just wanted to add. After reading the list you supplied, do you suppose, we need the clamps put down on hiring practices of who is put into positions of 'trust'. When we have peace officers, and I personally know of one, who hangs 'fake' college degrees on his office wall and swears that he recieved a masters AND a doctorate degree on the same day and people believe him! This never has and never will be a perfect world. Rather than blowing-off steam here, maybe, we should get out there and do something about whatever it is we don't like or tough it out!?

Chuck

[Zenister 0]

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As for a law enforcement DNA - database, I think, there needs to be a lot of thought put into that part. DNA, has helped law enforcement a great deal. It can help identify victims, too.

If you're a convicted felon, your DNA goes into the law enforcement database.

________________________________

Correct. I think, DNA should be collected for arrest of any felony. Not that ever living person at birth have their DNA entered. There has to be some 'reason' to it. Not just collecting DNA all willy-nilly.

on ARREST???!?!?!?

hell no.

That data (even if later thrown out) is then available for future investigations WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE.

only on conviction should any DNA data be collected and stored. If the conviction is overturned that data MUST BE DESTROYED.

Even cross referenceing 'legally collected DNA data' NOT associated with criminal activity is essentially an Illegal Search.

ie. DNA collected from a Rape case (in a military town) being cross referenced thru a database of Military members (one of whom MAY be responsible) is essentially an Illegal Search of EVERYONE in the database..

LE should be required to present Probable Cause (these 10 suspects were seen in the bar an hour before, for example) to search SPECIFIC DNA records..

mass cross referencing of such personally information is the short road to Orwellville.

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[PLFXpert 0]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record...

If you support something for one reason, you must accept someone else will support said something and utilize it in an equal and opposite way.

In the case of a DNA database, while I understand and appreciate the good that may come from it, I absolutely would not accept the opposite ways it would most definitely be used.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[mule231 0]

i think it would just make criminal familys have babys out of hospital, and the govt would just loose track of people and who was actually in the country, not that our govt in the uk know whos in the country. If you have nothing to hide why not

[PLFXpert 0]

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If you have nothing to hide why not

It would seem if I have nothing to hide, the government shouldn't be interested in my DNA anyways.



I love these kinds of debates:

"If you love me, you will."

"If you love me, you'll wait."

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[masterrig 1]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! I think, there's a little over-reacting. Orwellville? I don't think so. Before any action is taken in regards to taking DNA, all the 'legal beagals' will get their collective heads together to 'try' to cover all the bases. In this litigous society we live in? Gimme a break. Noone is going to 'set' themselves up for anything.


Chuck