Handgun "Microstamping"

[Rookie120 0]

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This law is not about stopping criminals

No kiddin! This is for some politician to be able to stand up and say look what I did to keep you safe. Although it has done nothing to deter crime.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kelpdiver 2]

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If you find a suspect, and also find a weapon belonging to him, then you can use this technique to see if his weapon was used to shoot the victim.

If you have no suspects, then you are no better or worse off.

Pretending that this whole concept was anything about crime fighting...

You're definitely worse off spending thousands of man hours staring at markings that don't even give a conclusive (in a court of law) match.

And yes, brass is ridiculously easy to get at the range.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Bill do you think even a low income criminal that cant afford to get a new stolen gun in 'da hood won't be able to afford a piece of emory cloth and a pencil?

[mnealtx 0]

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If you find a suspect, and also find a weapon belonging to him, then you can use this technique to see if his weapon was used to shoot the victim.

We already have that - it's called ballistic matching. No need for a microstamp on the cartridge case as well, since each weapon makes a different set of extractor/ejector marks on the case.

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>And it still doesn't identify the current owner of the gun.

And it shouldn't - BATF is constrained by law to destroy the yellow slips (the registration form you fill out at the gunstore when you buy the weapon)... and they don't. This is only going to affect law-abiding gun owners - criminals can use the 5th to protect themself from registering a gun.

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Which is your goal - no registration. So it seems that this technique would fulfill one of your desires.

For all the bragging of the Brady Bunch about how registration is working, I've still not seen more than a pittance of cases where registration data has resulted in conviction of a criminal.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,182]

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And it shouldn't - BATF is constrained by law to destroy the yellow slips (the registration form you fill out at the gunstore when you buy the weapon)... and they don't. .

And this is the same government that some trust not to abuse warrantless phone tapping activities, and some want to have a DNA database of all citizens!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[Rookie120 0]

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and some want to have a DNA database of all citizens!

When did DNA get thrown into the 2nd amendment?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[mnealtx 0]

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And it shouldn't - BATF is constrained by law to destroy the yellow slips (the registration form you fill out at the gunstore when you buy the weapon)... and they don't. .

And this is the same government that some trust not to abuse warrantless phone tapping activities, and some want to have a DNA database of all citizens!

I was mistaken about the BAT-boys keeping the files... evidently it's the FBI illegally keeping the records, from what information I can find. The gunstore owner still has to keep the paper record for 20 years.

Brady has done nothing constructive to help prevent illegal gun sales, and has hurt law-abiding owners.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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[christelsabine 1]

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Already half a dozens laughs in one or you your gun thread. Isn't that nice? You're bringing joy to the world, JohnRich

So why dont you instead debate the post and not the poster then? A lot of people like to bash John but then never answer any of his questions of the topic at hand.

The gun-o-phobes think that bashing the messenger is a legitimate debate tactic that proves they are correct.

Isn't it interesting to note how they don't have anything to actually say in support of the proposal.

All rational and logical people should take note of these things, and judge the merits (or lack thereof) of their arguments accordingly.

Oh JR, stop whining! Nobody is bashing the messanger of this thread, I for one really enjoy it, gun threads were becoming so rare lately .

OK, let me reply to the topic as fllws: I just would wish the average Joe-in-the-street to face our rigid gun controls; in such case, nobody would break his head about microstamping of semi-automatic handguns - they simply were forbidden.

Perhaps this could help to decrease crime a bit, who knows ..... but, you know my point of view on that.

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And what's to keep a criminal from picking up spent cartridge cases from the public shooting range and dropping them at his crime scene, to throw the police off his track? And of course, to get some poor law-abiding shooter charged with the crime that the criminal committed?

What a far-fetched argument.

What's a "public" shooting range for you? We do not have such. Only licensed, registered shooters are allowed to enter shooting ranges which only are reserved for sports shooters (own ranges) and (seperate) training ranges for hunters. All of them strictly are obliged to collect they own empty cartridges. These places are not "public".

But, as far as I know, nearly every Joe owning a weapon in your country can go out to one of those many shooting ranges to shoot his money into the air and to feel like GI Joe for an hour.

So, why not. Everybody to his taste.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Skyrad 0]

Maybe it will encourage people to keep the range clean.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[craddock 0]

Some ranges you are not allowed to keep it clean. In other words you can not pick up your brass. Once it hits the floor it becomes the property of the range.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[Scoop 0]

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Well, DOH!

You are spending a lot of time talking, but no time answering my questions. Do you consider that constructive to the debate? Why are you here?

I would like to raise you one irony point please.

If you recall this...

UK sentancing sucks

and therefore this...

Land fit for criminals

I fucking love irony too

[kallend 2,182]

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and some want to have a DNA database of all citizens!

When did DNA get thrown into the 2nd amendment?

If you think about it REALLY HARD you'll figure it out..

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[warpedskydiver 0]

But, as far as I know, nearly every Joe owning a weapon in your country can go out to one of those many shooting ranges to shoot his money into the air and to feel like GI Joe for an hour.

[JohnRich 4]

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How the fuck do dumb ideas actually get that far?

To the gun-o-phobes, every gun-control law is a good idea. They might even realize it won't do any good at solving crimes. But it will drive up the price of guns, and make fewer models available for sale in the state. And they consider those good things - it's an incremental step toward their goal of banning all gun sales. Anything that puts obstructions in the way of gun owners, is good. If there are only a few models available, for people with a lot of money, the gun-o-phobes consider that a step in the "right" direction. It doesn't matter to them if the law actually accomplishes its stated purpose - that's just a ruse to justify it.

[JohnRich 4]

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We already have that - it's called ballistic matching. No need for a microstamp on the cartridge case as well, since each weapon makes a different set of extractor/ejector marks on the case.

Even that is proving to be a joke. A few years ago Maryland started requiring that all new guns to be sold in the state be submitted with a fired cartridge case, whose markings would be loaded into a database, for searching later with crime scene cases, looking for matches. Now the Maryland police are recommending that this program be dropped as it is an expensive waste of time, and hasn't solved a single crime.

[JohnRich 4]

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Maybe it will encourage people to keep the range clean.

It's not a problem. The carpet of cases keeps you out of the dirt and mud - like walking on gravel. It's hell on lawnmower blades though.

Those that are reloaders can do things to identify their cases for recovery. They're usually shinier than the others that have been laying out in the elements. And I put a colored stripe on the bottom of mine with a magic marker to identify them as mine, so I don't get someone else's brass of unknown lineage. Depending upon the range and the rifle I'm using, I may lay a blanket out in front of me, so that all my ejected cases land on my blanket, for easy collection.

[warpedskydiver 0]

So called gun control advocates who "own guns"(John Kerry ring a bell here?" think the only problem is, that guns can be afforded by the working class.

Therefore if the firearms were to cost an obscene amount of money, so that the working class and lower could not afford them, the ammunition, or the license to hunt, then only the "RIGHT KIND OF PEOPLE" would own guns.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Maybe it will encourage people to keep the range clean.

It's not a problem. The carpet of cases keeps you out of the dirt and mud - like walking on gravel. It's hell on lawnmower blades though.

Those that are reloaders can do things to identify their cases for recovery. They're usually shinier than the others that have been laying out in the elements. And I put a colored stripe on the bottom of mine with a magic marker to identify them as mine, so I don't get someone else's brass of unknown lineage. Depending upon the range and the rifle I'm using, I may lay a blanket out in front of me, so that all my ejected cases land on my blanket, for easy collection.

Brass catchers work well if not firing more than 30 rounds in a burst

[JohnRich 4]

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Brass catchers work well if not firing more than 30 rounds in a burst

Yeah, but who wants one of those things hanging off your gun?

For my AR-15, I can put my gun bag at a position about 4 o'clock from my shooting position, and all my ejected cases will pop neatly right into my open bag.

For rifles like my M1A (M14), which throws the cases forward to about the 2 o'clock position, I have a piece of cardboard on prongs that I stick into the ground, to deflect them. That piles them up neatly right in front of me.

Those rascals can be hard to find in tall grass, especially if mixed up with a bunch of other cases of similar caliber.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Brass catchers work well if not firing more than 30 rounds in a burst

Yeah, but who wants one of those things hanging off your gun?

For my AR-15, I can put my gun bag at a position about 4 o'clock from my shooting position, and all my ejected cases will pop neatly right into my open bag.

For rifles like my M1A (M14), which throws the cases forward to about the 2 o'clock position, I have a piece of cardboard on prongs that I stick into the ground, to deflect them. That piles them up neatly right in front of me.

Those rascals can be hard to find in tall grass, especially if mixed up with a bunch of other cases of similar caliber.

Yeah and all that black hills, and federal nickel plated brass isn't cheap!!!

[christelsabine 1]

You must have confused with the Iraqis, Palestinians, and any other dolt firing "into the air like Jihad Johnny"

[warpedskydiver 0]

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You must have confused with the Iraqis, Palestinians, and any other dolt firing "into the air like Jihad Johnny"

Ah yes? Where's the limit on calibres/weapons to be used for fun at American shooting ranges?

[JohnRich 4]

News update:

"Microstamping & Bullet Serialization Bill Defeated"

[mnealtx 0]

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News update:

"Microstamping & Bullet Serialization Bill Defeated"

And there was much rejoicing...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706