QuoteQuote
Won't the criminals just use revolvers which don't eject spent cartridge casings?
Perhaps the criminal geniuses, but there are very few of those.
Will this effort solve all murders? Probably not.
Will this effort solve -some- murders? Probably.
Will this effort stop terrorists? Probably not.
Will this effort leave an evidence trail linking a particular gun to a particular cartridge? In some cases yes, in some cases no.
However, that is no different than standard fingerprinting. Just because you find a persons fingerprints at the scene of a crime it doesn't mean the person commmitted the crime. It DOES however, give the criminologists ONE possible link to look at where previously they had none.
It would be a miracle if this could solve 1 in 100 murders. It would be an even bigger one if it didn't result in 1 falset conviction in 100. It isn't remotely like fingerprinting. The science is poor - more political, and it doesn't take a genius to realize obvious workarounds (like revolvers, shotguns, or every gun in existence right now).
It's at best a new job for all those unnecessary DEA agents to go if we legalized drugs. (another more successful method to reduce murders)
JohnRich 4
QuoteQuoteAlready half a dozens laughs in one or you your gun thread. Isn't that nice? You're bringing joy to the world, JohnRich
So why dont you instead debate the post and not the poster then? A lot of people like to bash John but then never answer any of his questions of the topic at hand.
The gun-o-phobes think that bashing the messenger is a legitimate debate tactic that proves they are correct.
Isn't it interesting to note how they don't have anything to actually say in support of the proposal.
All rational and logical people should take note of these things, and judge the merits (or lack thereof) of their arguments accordingly.
JohnRich 4
QuoteIt would be interesting to run a trial in a limited area and see if it resulted in better identification of which weapons were used in crime.
Wouldn't you need gun registration to find out to whom the gun belongs, that was identified by the micro-stamping on the expended shell casing?
And what's to keep a criminal from picking up spent cartridge cases from the public shooting range and dropping them at his crime scene, to throw the police off his track? And of course, to get some poor law-abiding shooter charged with the crime that the criminal committed?
billvon 3,132
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>Wouldn't you need gun registration to find out to whom the gun
>belongs, that was identified by the micro-stamping on the expended
>shell casing?
Nope. Take the casing and compare it to the suspect's gun, or a database of guns used in crimes (or by criminals) before.
>And what's to keep a criminal from picking up spent cartridge
>cases from the public shooting range and dropping them at his crime
>scene, to throw the police off his track?
He could indeed do that, if the public shooting range had a less than stellar cleanup crew. Heck, he could get a scraping of your skin, and get the hair you left in the locker room shower drain, and leave it there too to throw off DNA analysis. No method is perfect. A limited trial would see how well it worked.
>belongs, that was identified by the micro-stamping on the expended
>shell casing?
Nope. Take the casing and compare it to the suspect's gun, or a database of guns used in crimes (or by criminals) before.
>And what's to keep a criminal from picking up spent cartridge
>cases from the public shooting range and dropping them at his crime
>scene, to throw the police off his track?
He could indeed do that, if the public shooting range had a less than stellar cleanup crew. Heck, he could get a scraping of your skin, and get the hair you left in the locker room shower drain, and leave it there too to throw off DNA analysis. No method is perfect. A limited trial would see how well it worked.
Quote
if the public shooting range had a less than stellar cleanup crew
What public shooting ranges do you go to?
We are all engines of karma
Skyrad 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteAlready half a dozens laughs in one or you your gun thread. Isn't that nice? You're bringing joy to the world, JohnRich
So why dont you instead debate the post and not the poster then? A lot of people like to bash John but then never answer any of his questions of the topic at hand.
It borders between very funny and very tedious the fact that you label anyone who doesn't agree with you as a Gun-O-Phobe especially since of those who you claim to be such most of us are either gun owners and/or regular shooters. I guess its a bit like labeling anyone who isn't a Neocon Republican Anti American/ American basher/ American hater
The gun-o-phobes think that bashing the messenger is a legitimate debate tactic that proves they are correct.
Isn't it interesting to note how they don't have anything to actually say in support of the proposal.
All rational and logical people should take note of these things, and judge the merits (or lack thereof) of their arguments accordingly.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Skyrad 0
QuoteQuoteIt would be interesting to run a trial in a limited area and see if it resulted in better identification of which weapons were used in crime.
Wouldn't you need gun registration to find out to whom the gun belongs, that was identified by the micro-stamping on the expended shell casing?
And what's to keep a criminal from picking up spent cartridge cases from the public shooting range and dropping them at his crime scene, to throw the police off his track? And of course, to get some poor law-abiding shooter charged with the crime that the criminal committed?
While that would be possible would it really be all that likely? I wouln't think so after all this is real life not CSI.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
JohnRich 4
Quote>Wouldn't you need gun registration to find out to whom the gun
>belongs, that was identified by the micro-stamping on the
>expended shell casing?
Nope. Take the casing and compare it to the suspect's gun
Um, that assumes that you have caught the suspect in the act. In which case, you don't need microstamping to put him at the scene. If the suspect is not caught on-site, then you still don't know from whom the gun came, unless you have registration of all microstamped guns.
Quoteor a database of guns used in crimes (or by criminals) before.
And that assumes that guns not previously used in crimes will never be used in crime. Bzzzt. Wrong. And it still doesn't identify the current owner of the gun.
Quote>And what's to keep a criminal from picking up spent cartridge
>cases from the public shooting range and dropping them at his
>crime scene, to throw the police off his track?
He could indeed do that, if the public shooting range had a less than stellar cleanup crew.
It would seem that you haven't been to many public shooting ranges. In some places, the ground is a thick carpet of old cartridge cases. In others, they sweep them up and store them in big barrels, which are periodically sold to recyclers. Either way, there are plenty of casings from other shooters readily available to anyone who wants them.
And another wrinkle: are they going to make it against the law to have worn-out microstamps which are illegible? Otherwise, criminals can just run a file over the stamping plate and obliterate them. So would the police then go around to private homes inspecting firearms to find out if they've been altered?
Hmmmm lets see....
- microstamping alone won't help solve murders/shootings simply because investigators won't know who the gun belongs to unless its registered.
- microstamping + gun registration only keeps honest people honest. Criminals do not register their firearms or will use a stolen firearm to commit a crime.
How the fuck do dumb ideas actually get that far?
- microstamping alone won't help solve murders/shootings simply because investigators won't know who the gun belongs to unless its registered.
- microstamping + gun registration only keeps honest people honest. Criminals do not register their firearms or will use a stolen firearm to commit a crime.
How the fuck do dumb ideas actually get that far?
www.FourWheelerHB.com
billvon 3,132
>Um, that assumes that you have caught the suspect in the act. In
> which case, you don't need microstamping to put him at the scene.
> If the suspect is not caught on-site, then you still don't know from
> whom the gun came, unless you have registration of all
> microstamped guns.
If you find a suspect, and also find a weapon belonging to him, then you can use this technique to see if his weapon was used to shoot the victim.
If you have no suspects, then you are no better or worse off.
>And it still doesn't identify the current owner of the gun.
Which is your goal - no registration. So it seems that this technique would fulfill one of your desires.
>are they going to make it against the law to have
>worn-out microstamps which are illegible?
I don't know. A limited trial would allow us to discover if this is an issue or not.
> which case, you don't need microstamping to put him at the scene.
> If the suspect is not caught on-site, then you still don't know from
> whom the gun came, unless you have registration of all
> microstamped guns.
If you find a suspect, and also find a weapon belonging to him, then you can use this technique to see if his weapon was used to shoot the victim.
If you have no suspects, then you are no better or worse off.
>And it still doesn't identify the current owner of the gun.
Which is your goal - no registration. So it seems that this technique would fulfill one of your desires.
>are they going to make it against the law to have
>worn-out microstamps which are illegible?
I don't know. A limited trial would allow us to discover if this is an issue or not.
QuoteWhich is your goal - no registration. So it seems that this technique would fulfill one of your desires.
How about enforce the laws in the books already? Sounds like a start. Instead of the BS jail sentence they like to dish out. Toughen up the penalties.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
billvon 3,132
>How about enforce the laws in the books already?
Also a good idea.
Also a good idea.
QuoteQuote
if the public shooting range had a less than stellar cleanup crew
What public shooting ranges do you go to?
No shit! an outdoor range where you arent standing on a foot of brass?
QuoteHmmmm lets see....
- microstamping alone won't help solve murders/shootings simply because investigators won't know who the gun belongs to unless its registered.
- microstamping + gun registration only keeps honest people honest. Criminals do not register their firearms or will use a stolen firearm to commit a crime.
How the fuck do dumb ideas actually get that far?
This law is not about stopping criminals
Doc Holiday, I love it!!!!
That was a man who knew how to negotiate