From American Conservative Magazine: maybe war isn't the answer.

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http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_09_11/cover.html

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[billvon 3,132]

They're saying something that many conservatives are just now admitting to themselves - it's not working. We're not winning. Things are getting worse in Iraq, not better. We have always assumed that with an advanced enough army, we would eventually win. But as we learned in Vietnam (and as the USSR learned in Afghanistan) that's not always the case.

Sure, we've got superior firepower and better training. But the Iraqi insurgents aren't lining up in rows to be shot. They've learned that if they live (and fight) within the populace, they give us a choice -

1) Leave them alone while they are in the general populace. They win.

2) Kill everyone to make sure we kill them as well. In the end, we lose as the Iraqis realize that we are the enemy after all.

They have learned that they can't beat us in a conventional war, but they can deny us victory in an unconventional one. The more we target them, the more they learn to use the techniques of terrorism and resistance against us - and the more effective they become. We're training the next generation of insurgents in Iraq right now, and they're fast learners.

Good summary at the end of the article: "We . .need to be smart, and getting smart means ending our infatuation with war and rediscovering the possibilities of politics." I hope enough people start realizing this before we lose thousands more US troops to a war we can't win.

[rushmc 23]

Bill,

bullshit
what has caused most of the problems is the printed attitude that miror yours.
The enemy believes that they can win by causing causualities that will make the media print opinions such as yours, make the politions nervous get week in the knees and then cut and run.

Thank God we have a president that will not bow to such slober

But that in just my opion oh
and I like how you can now speak for conservatives oh all knowing one

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,182]

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Bill,

bullshit
what has caused most of the problems is the printed attitude that miror yours.
The enemy believes that they can win by causing causualities that will make the media print opinions such as yours, make the politions nervous get week in the knees and then cut and run.

Thank God we have a president that will not bow to such slober

But that in just my opion oh
and I like how you can now speak for conservatives oh all knowing one

It's opinions like yours that caused us to be in this quagmire in the first place. You might have the common decency to admit when you made a mistake.

BTW I don't believe Bill actually wrote the article in "American Conservative", so he's not speaking for conservatives, just paraphrasing them.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[StreetScooby 5]

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It's opinions like yours that caused us to be in this quagmire in the first place.

And where would have opinions like your's gotten us?

We are all engines of karma

[Nightingale 0]

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It's opinions like yours that caused us to be in this quagmire in the first place.

And where would have opinions like your's gotten us?

Staying in Afghanistan and staying out of Iraq?

[StreetScooby 5]

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Staying in Afghanistan and staying out of Iraq?

I agree that would be a better position than where we are now.

We are all engines of karma

[kallend 2,182]

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It's opinions like yours that caused us to be in this quagmire in the first place.

And where would have opinions like your's gotten us?

Staying out of Iraq and finishing the job in Afghanistan.

Search posts in this forum from Feb 2003 and my opinion is very clearly stated. I also predicted right here in this forum that Iraqis would NOT greet us with flowers, and that Iraq would become a quagmire for the US.

Of course, at the time the Neo-cons told me I was wrong on all counts.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Search posts in this forum from Feb 2003 and my opinion is very clearly stated. I also predicted right here in this forum that Iraqis would NOT greet us with flowers, and that Iraq would become a quagmire for the US.

So, what do we do now?

We are all engines of karma

[kallend 2,182]

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Search posts in this forum from Feb 2003 and my opinion is very clearly stated. I also predicted right here in this forum that Iraqis would NOT greet us with flowers, and that Iraq would become a quagmire for the US.

So, what do we do now?

You sound like my kids. They get themselves into a mess, and then expect ME to get them out of it.

My recommendation - right now Bush is to Iraq like Carter was to the Iran hostage crisis; incapable of resolving the problem. Impeach the moron that got us into the mess and put a competent leader in charge.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Bill,

bullshit
what has caused most of the problems is the printed attitude that miror yours.
The enemy believes that they can win by causing causualities that will make the media print opinions such as yours, make the politions nervous get week in the knees and then cut and run.

Thank God we have a president that will not bow to such slober

But that in just my opion oh
and I like how you can now speak for conservatives oh all knowing one

It's opinions like yours that caused us to be in this quagmire in the first place. You might have the common decency to admit when you made a mistake.

BTW I don't believe Bill actually wrote the article in "American Conservative", so he's not speaking for conservatives, just paraphrasing them.

Again proclaiming superiority!!

I am wrong huh. Well, I know you think so but superior in being right , I don't think so.

As for Bill, I beleive it is his comentary to the artice that I responded to. If not, my mistake.

Gonna be a big fall from that high horse you have placed yourself on.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

you are very good at picking the tiny pieces that support your view.

The true story is not being told on the news sources you choose to frequent.

A month or two of NewsMax would counter an hour of your chosen supportive sites

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

On what charge ?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[StreetScooby 5]

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You sound like my kids. They get themselves into a mess, and then expect ME to get them out of it.

My recommendation - right now Bush is to Iraq like Carter was to the Iran hostage crisis; incapable of resolving the problem. Impeach the moron that got us into the mess and put a competent leader in charge.

So, with these skills, you get your kids out of trouble?

To be honest, I don't know what to do, either. I'd prefer to buy them all TVs and show them Baywatch. I think it would be cheaper in the long run.

We are all engines of karma

[kallend 2,182]

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you are very good at picking the tiny pieces that support your view.

The true story is not being told on the news sources you choose to frequent.

A month or two of NewsMax would counter an hour of your chosen supportive sites

Ha ha. You are funny.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,182]

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On what charge ?

Violating his oath of office.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,132]

>The enemy believes that they can win by causing causualities that
>will make the media print opinions such as yours, make the politions
>nervous get week in the knees and then cut and run.

The enemy WILL win if he can make us stay and die. At 1000 dead US soldiers a year, and violence increasing steadily, he can wait us out.

Our current solution is NOT WORKING. We need a different one. Staying and letting them kill us requires no thought, just anger and rhetoric. Like the article says, we have to start being smarter than that. Thankfully, some people's minds are getting back into gear.

>and I like how you can now speak for conservatives oh all knowing one

I can certainly speak _to_ the conservatives that wrote this. They're the ones 'speaking for all conservatives' as you claim, although I suspect it is simply one conservative's opinion.

>A month or two of NewsMax would counter an hour of your chosen supportive sites . . .

Now that's funny! They must be misunderestimating Newsmax.

[freethefly 6]

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Thank God we have a president that will not bow to such slober

You're thanking a god for all the death that this idiot has caused by invading a country that did nothing to us? The blundering idiot blindly invaded without a plan. He has changed his reason for doing such far to many times to have any credibility for doing such. He has placed the credibility of our nation in the abyss with no way out to save face. Invading Iraq will go down as the greatest military blunder of all time and Bush will be seen for what he is - an incompetent president whose only agenda is a grandiose vision that he is the savior of the planet. Face the truth, Bush is a major screw up.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[rushmc 23]

I read your first sentence and I quit because that premise is a lie.
The facts are out there but you choose to ignore them.

So be it.........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

now you are the funny one.

Going the route you support would violate his oath of office

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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>The enemy believes that they can win by causing causualities that
>will make the media print opinions such as yours, make the politions
>nervous get week in the knees and then cut and run.

The enemy WILL win if he can make us stay and die. At 1000 dead US soldiers a year, and violence increasing steadily, he can wait us out.

Our current solution is NOT WORKING. We need a different one. Staying and letting them kill us requires no thought, just anger and rhetoric. Like the article says, we have to start being smarter than that. Thankfully, some people's minds are getting back into gear.

>and I like how you can now speak for conservatives oh all knowing one

I can certainly speak _to_ the conservatives that wrote this. They're the ones 'speaking for all conservatives' as you claim, although I suspect it is simply one conservative's opinion.

>A month or two of NewsMax would counter an hour of your chosen supportive sites . . .

Now that's funny! They must be misunderestimating Newsmax.

The current solution is working Bill
Choosing to ignore this will not change things.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,602]

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The current solution is working Bill

What current solution is working to do what? What is the end?

I'm not looking for a quick quip like "end of terrorism" or "stay teh course." What do you see as the desired end result of the current situation (street fighting in Iraq)

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

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The current solution is working Bill

What current solution is working to do what? What is the end?

I'm not looking for a quick quip like "end of terrorism" or "stay teh course." What do you see as the desired end result of the current situation (street fighting in Iraq)

Wendy W.

I like your posts.
At least you bring specifics.

Then end is an Iraq in control of its own destiny without terror/Islamic Fascitist leaders that will continue to polute the minds of thier young to strap bombs on themselves and thier children to support a barbaric leadership.
To do that Iraq has to be strong enough to stay off the advances of those with that mind set.
The only way to have that happen is have a people experienced enough living freedom to fight for it and to vote in leaders supporting this freedom.

The current trends in Iraq show less and less violence toward our troops. They have instead changed thier tactics (which to me is some proof our tactics are working) to try and start a civil war.

Edited to add: Most of the fighters there are not even Iraq's. This should be a clue as to what is at stake in the whole region

While this has caused some concerns, to date, it has not yet worked. The generals over there do not think the civil war will happen either as reported last week.

It will take time. Just look back at how long it took for this country to form and it formed under very different circumstances.

These are my opinions based on what I can and have learned. I fully believe that the hate retoric by the left (which has happened every time when they loose the presidency) has caused many a soldiers death.

I am not saying the topic should not be debated or discussed passionatly but, skewing facts to gain political power is a despicable tactic that is dangerous. (and don't anyone spew the lie bs. all of your favorite sons believed the same thing years before Bush was around)

thanks for an honest question Wendy! I could go on for hours but well, I don't type that well

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Royd 0]

A little Monday morning quarterbacking: We should have pulled all of the troops out of Bosnia, or anywhere else where we are playing army, and completely put a noose around Iraq.
Then set up temporary refugee camps outside of every town.

Give everyone a certain period of time to enter the camp with no weapons. After that, everyone else is considered an enemy.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Again proclaiming superiority!!

Holy shit. That is fucking hilarious.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.