Some sad poll results

[rushmc 23]

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Sorry, I was educated by liberal educators too. I can spell, and when I'm unsure I generally care enough about my audience to check.

Personally, I think spelling is as much a talent as a learned thing; it's much harder for some people than for others. But tools make that less of a problem, because then it just takes a little longer to spell.

Wendy W.

Ya, I agree with most of what you post here. I too use the tools but I do not like the spell check on this site so I tend not to use it.

I am much better now than I used to be though. (job survival you know)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Nightingale 0]

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D'oh. I missed the one about the american idol winner. Who was it again?

See, now to me, THIS is what's truly upsetting.

LOL! I don't have cable/sattelite, and can't pick up a damn thing on the TV with an antenna, so I've never watched AI.

[Nightingale 0]

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Correct spelling took a hit when while I was in school when the lib educators introduced "whole language".

I have been fighting to get better (at spelling) ever since.

whole language was mandated by the state board of education (politicians). Most educators didn't like it much, and still don't like it.

Whole language is a good idea. The way the US implemented it was fundamentally flawed, though.

Getting rid of reading primers is a good thing. Whole language replaces primers of nonsense with storybooks that make sense. However, kids don't just spontaneously read. What educators were supposed to do is to teach phonics, grammar, and sentence structure in the context of actual books. They skipped the entire last part, and pretty much just handed out the books and expected kids to start reading them.

Whole language can be an excellent teaching method, if implemented properly, and has been used successfully throughout the world. There's not only one "right" way to teach.

It really, really irritates me when people jump to blame educators for flawed learning programs. These programs have been adopted by state politicians and educators are not given any choice at all about whether or not to use them. The politicians want to look like they're doing something so they can get re-elected, and they want to say "I implemented this new program to help our kids!" This happens so often that things get changed around before we have a chance to really see the results of the last system that they forced on the teachers, and before they had a chance to implement any improvements to the former system. Schools are given new system after new system, and not given any time to work the bugs out of the last new system before they get another one, just as full of flaws.

Teachers don't have much of a choice in what and how they teach anymore, especially in larger districts. It's one of the reasons I got out of the business. Educators are given all the blame for things they don't have a choice about, and politicians get the praise when they hand down yet another poorly researched, poorly implemented system that isn't going to work any better than the last one,

[rehmwa 2]

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It really, really irritates me when people jump to blame educators for flawed learning programs.

I blame your childhood teachers for instilling this attitude in you.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[NWFlyer 2]

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But if you want, make a book of "Important information every American should know." It might even sell a good number of copies, though it won't reach the people you pity so much.

That was actually done in 1988. Looks like it's been updated recently. IIRC this book had some controvery around it because it was perceived to be somewhat white-male-canon biased, and, of course, any book of this type has to make decisions about what is in and what is out that not everyone will agree with. Of course, I heard a lot about it because two of the three authors were at UVA and I was a student there when the book originally came out.

But hey, it's somewhere to start and it probably wouldn't hurt anyone to use as a jumping-off point. I just looked on my bookshelf and I still have the original edition sitting up there. No idea when I last cracked it, though.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[billvon 3,111]

>Harry Potter vs. Tony Blair? Who cares?

Some do. Given that we are a democracy, and rely on the wisdom of the people of the US to make decisions, knowing what goes on beyond the borders of the US can be important.

>Where the planets are? Useful to know if you work in any field
>that might involve going to other planets . . .

Or if you want to understand how gravity works, or how to observe stars, or what will affect your satellite's position in space. But for most people it's not that important.

>Now if all the people who were polled were to write a list of
>questions that actually pertain to their daily lives . . .

Like where the nearest McDonald's is, or how much it costs to get a Slurpee at the 7/11, or how low Lucretia's pants are? It's likely the interviewer would not know those. But if that's the level of understanding we aspire to, we're a pretty poor society indeed.

[Shotgun 1]

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Single most important event? No.

What would you then list as the single most important (significant) event in recent history?

Hmm, I don't know if any particular event deserves to be the single most important, but the war in Iraq would probably be pretty high up there in significance. The hurricane that wiped out New Orleans was pretty significant too, as well as the little tsunami in the Indian Ocean that killed more than 200K people. There's a conflict going on between Israel and Lebanon that seems to be fairly important...

Just to name a few...

[SkyDekker 1,465]

All very important and significant moments in recent time. one of them flowed directly from 9/11 though, well at least the justification.

I would say though, that none of those have shaped current affairs as much as 9/11 did though, but that would be personal opinion I guess.

[Shotgun 1]

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>Now if all the people who were polled were to write a list of
>questions that actually pertain to their daily lives . . .

Like where the nearest McDonald's is, or how much it costs to get a Slurpee at the 7/11, or how low Lucretia's pants are? It's likely the interviewer would not know those. But if that's the level of understanding we aspire to, we're a pretty poor society indeed.

Is that the sort of list you would make if someone asked you to make a list of questions regarding what you do in your daily life? I doubt it; I'm sure you would come up with much more interesting questions, as I'm sure most other people would too.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Hmm, I don't know if any particular event deserves to be the single most important, but the war in Iraq would probably be pretty high up there in significance. The hurricane that wiped out New Orleans was pretty significant too, as well as the little tsunami in the Indian Ocean that killed more than 200K people. There's a conflict going on between Israel and Lebanon that seems to be fairly important...

Just to name a few...

Would the war in Iraq have occurred without the catalyst of 9/11? Maybe, but 9/11 certainly made it easier, didn't it? Would US foreign policy (and even domestic security) be as aggressive without 9/11? Would the world be so divided?

You seem to be balking on single....as if saying something is the most important makes other events entirely insignificant. But it does not. To illustrate, allow me to give a self-deprecating example.

Let us say there is a contest for biggest Asshat in the world. After much debate, the list is paired down to a top 10 and I am found to be the biggest Asshat around. Indeed, you could even call me the single biggest asshat in the world. Does that mean that 2-9 are not asshats? Of course not, but I am top of the pile.

The tsunami and hurricane and other items are quite important but they definitely did not have the worldwide impact that 9/11 sparked...in my opinion.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[PLFXpert 0]

Yes, you are the biggest Asshat. And true, that does not mean 2-9 are not also Asshats...

However, we are not talking about a clear contest here. There are too many variables for any one particular event to win "single most important".

Furthermore, if this thread weren't so "benign" already, I'd think it silly to even be discussing it.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[billvon 3,111]

>Is that the sort of list you would make if someone asked you to
>make a list of questions regarding what you do in your daily life?

Nope, since I don't go to McDonald's or the 7/11. It would be more like:

-Is the construction on Mira Mesa done yet? Is the road still all torn up?
-Can I get another month out of that rear tire?
-Should I leave early so I can get up to Perris before traffic gets bad?

But again, "what we do in our everyday lives" to me isn't the level of understanding we should aspire to. We should aspire to know more than that, so we better understand the world we live in. Understanding the climate helps us know what the future will bring. Understanding pollution helps us protect the next generation. Understanding where literature came from helps us understand today's literature a little better. Understanding what's going on in the Middle East helps us make decisions that might just head off World War III.

[wmw999 2,587]

Cultural literacy does a couple of things, though, that go beyond what each person does in their own life.

It provides some cultural commonality; an idea of what most people would be expected to understand references to. It also provides some context for information that we have. Many people deal with information in context -- how do you know how significant your achievement is if you have no context? How do you know how significant your city is if you don't know anything about other cities?

It's easy to get along in life without a lot of that information. But maybe it adds a richness, and that commonality so that the farmer (who doesn't need to know about computers) can talk to the programmer (who doesn't need to know about driving) can talk to the trucker (who doesn't need to know about farming.

It's not always about screening out what you don't need to know. Sometimes it should about including the stuff that's beyond your direct boundaries.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[GTAVercetti 0]

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However, we are not talking about a clear contest here. There are too many variables for any one particular event to win "single most important".

Furthermore, if this thread weren't so "benign" already, I'd think it silly to even be discussing it.

It is not a clear contest, of course. But in my mind, what makes something the single most important event is how much "ripple effect" its occurence created. And the ripple of 9/11 was (and still is), to me, the largest we have seen in quite some time.

This is SC. We nitpick and discuss silly little points of argument all the time. Lots of off-thread and trivial side topics. Just like Bonfire. Except we do it without "vibes."

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[PLFXpert 0]

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But in my mind, what makes something the single most important event is how much "ripple effect" its occurence created. And the ripple of 9/11 was (and still is), to me, the largest we have seen in quite some time.

And surely you realize this is why no such official determination of "single most" can be declared.

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This is SC. We nitpick and discuss silly little points of argument all the time. Lots of off-thread and trivial side topics. Just like Bonfire.

Then can I post a one-liner in the Israel/U.S. thread referencing my opinion that only the cheese stands alone?


P.S. It's "occurrence", Robertson. How's that for my first nitpick?

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[GTAVercetti 0]

That is also why there can be no official winner of MOST ideas, but does that mean we should never debate anything? Maybe for you, but I prefer to debate ideas so that I can constantly reform and reshape my own ideas if I read something intriguing from another poster. What fun is it to say, "Well, this is all subjective, so let's not talk about it?"

Yes, you can post a cheese liner.

And unlike one person I know, my sig line does not declare that I always edit for spelling/grammar, so I don't care.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[PLFXpert 0]

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I prefer to debate ideas so that I can constantly reform and reshape my own ideas if I read something intriguing from another poster.

I can see why the opposition to "single-most" was so intriguing and also how it would aid in idea-reform for you, Big Thinker.

One of my majors was sociology. I know all about debating subjects.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Nightingale 0]

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It really, really irritates me when people jump to blame educators for flawed learning programs.

I blame your childhood teachers for instilling this attitude in you.

I used to be a teacher, and I was shocked to learn how little control teachers actually have about what goes on in their classrooms, and how little control principals actually have about what goes on in their schools.

[billvon 3,111]

>Then can I post a one-liner in the Israel/U.S. thread referencing my
>opinion that only the cheese stands alone?

The cheese may stand alone, but remember - the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[PLFXpert 0]

I'm a royal early bird, but now that I think about it cheese certainly sounds better than worms. Hmmm.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Shotgun 1]

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>Is that the sort of list you would make if someone asked you to
>make a list of questions regarding what you do in your daily life?

Nope, since I don't go to McDonald's or the 7/11. It would be more like:

-Is the construction on Mira Mesa done yet? Is the road still all torn up?
-Can I get another month out of that rear tire?
-Should I leave early so I can get up to Perris before traffic gets bad?

Hmm, and all this time I've assumed that you spend most of your days doing more important things than just sitting around thinking about roads and traffic and tires.

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But again, "what we do in our everyday lives" to me isn't the level of understanding we should aspire to. We should aspire to know more than that, so we better understand the world we live in.

I agree. I just don't think that the poll results you posted do much to accurately indicate how much the average person knows about the world around them.

[rushmc 23]

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Correct spelling took a hit when while I was in school when the lib educators introduced "whole language".

I have been fighting to get better (at spelling) ever since.

whole language was mandated by the state board of education (politicians). Most educators didn't like it much, and still don't like it.

Whole language is a good idea. The way the US implemented it was fundamentally flawed, though.

Getting rid of reading primers is a good thing. Whole language replaces primers of nonsense with storybooks that make sense. However, kids don't just spontaneously read. What educators were supposed to do is to teach phonics, grammar, and sentence structure in the context of actual books. They skipped the entire last part, and pretty much just handed out the books and expected kids to start reading them.

Whole language can be an excellent teaching method, if implemented properly, and has been used successfully throughout the world. There's not only one "right" way to teach.

It really, really irritates me when people jump to blame educators for flawed learning programs. These programs have been adopted by state politicians and educators are not given any choice at all about whether or not to use them. The politicians want to look like they're doing something so they can get re-elected, and they want to say "I implemented this new program to help our kids!" This happens so often that things get changed around before we have a chance to really see the results of the last system that they forced on the teachers, and before they had a chance to implement any improvements to the former system. Schools are given new system after new system, and not given any time to work the bugs out of the last new system before they get another one, just as full of flaws.

Teachers don't have much of a choice in what and how they teach anymore, especially in larger districts. It's one of the reasons I got out of the business. Educators are given all the blame for things they don't have a choice about, and politicians get the praise when they hand down yet another poorly researched, poorly implemented system that isn't going to work any better than the last one,

Please realize I am not blaming the educators but I am blaming the program and who pushed it.

I do know however, that one of the premises was that you do not have to push correct spelling. Let the child spell it like it sounds to them and the correct spelling will come later. Now, tie this in with you phonics statement and it would seem that the program should succeed. In my case though, phonics was dropped.

New system after new system? Well, those pushing new systems have to justify thier jobs somehow.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Nightingale 0]

Dropping phonics was one of the main flaws in the implementation of whole language in the USA.

[TrophyHusband 0]

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23% knew who the most recent American Idol winner was. 11% knew who the most recent Supreme Court appointee was.

i'm happy to say that i no longer remember the most recent ai winner, but at the time i was annoyed about the fact that i seemed to be bombarded with this useless information. god damn i hate american idol.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[rehmwa 2]

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Dropping phonics was one of the main flaws in the implementation of whole language in the USA.

Hey, at least this thread has evolved to a semi-useful discussion on education rather than what it started out as - "Hey, look at all the stupid people in the world" (patting ourselves on the back by making comments to try and differentiate ourselves from "them")

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants