Skyrad 0
kallend 2,182
Quoteno really, John has a point...
QuoteExemptions to the ban on sword sales include swords that are to be used for Highland dancing, museum displays, historical re-enactments, fencing and martial arts.
How many swords can you think of that fall outside of this catagory?
I know two people that have swords that fall outside of those categories. I don't think it uncommon - we have stores in our shopping malls that sell decorative swords for people to hang on their walls (it takes all sorts...).
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Scoop 0
Bottom line is, I have no interest in swords and nor have 99% of the population. So who exactly is going to vote against this proposal? My guess is that people won't feel strongly enough to counter the argument (certainly not in any number) and the policy will go through and to be honest, I couldn't give a fuck.
Whats the hardship in taking a few extra steps to get what your after? Be interesting to hear a serious sword collector/historians point of view. Part of me thinks they'd be annoyed because it makes things harder for them but the other thinks they'd probably rather only responsible people like themselves could purchase items like this
Whats the hardship in taking a few extra steps to get what your after? Be interesting to hear a serious sword collector/historians point of view. Part of me thinks they'd be annoyed because it makes things harder for them but the other thinks they'd probably rather only responsible people like themselves could purchase items like this
Skyrad 0
I agree with you but when Istop and think about it it seems more and more like a cheap political stunt to apease the majority of people who don't like Neds running about playing Highlander with knives, as Swords are big knifes and people are scared by the media its a no lose bit of legislation if you're a politition. Like you say, 99% of the people don't care about swords.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Skyrad 0
Quote
....
Ok, I've read your arguments and on reflection, I realise that actually I was wrong. On refelction I think that this is an unworkable sound bite bit of legislation. Especially when you couple your arguements with the fact that Swords will still be available in England which is a short drive south with no border checks at all.
Unless someone can convince me otherwise this argument goes to John Rich. I think on this issue he is correct.
Where is it south of the border, Jamile? Pls let me know as I am collecting swords and similar items since a long time - it's getting harder and harder over here and since VAT will be increased next year, you can imagine the prices! Thx for any info.
Here you go you little minx!
http://www.eclectictraders.com/
http://www.michaeldlong.com/
http://www.ab-militaria.com/index.shtml
http://www.coldstreamhouse.com/
http://www.bayonetsonline.com/
http://www.caldwellandcompany.net/
http://www.guns.uk.com/
http://www.19thcenturyweapons.com/
http://www.gundersonmilitaria.com/swordad.html
http://www.ken-drake.com/
http://www.regimentals.co.uk/
http://www.militaryantiques.co.uk/
http://www.firearmscollector.com/
http://www.scottishsword.com/
http://www.spanishmainantiques.com/
http://www.wilkinson-swords.co.uk/
http://www.antiquearmsandarmour.com/
http://www.military-antiques-stockholm.com/
http://www.antiquearms-armor.com/
http://www.grandearmee.com/
http://www.oldswords.com/default.htm
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
QuoteIt depends Christel, what kind of Sword are you looking for? There are two fencing shops that I can think of off the top of my head here in London...
http://www.duellist.com/cgi-bin/fencing.cgi
This is where I bought my Sabre.
There are lots of martial arts shops if you're looking for Katana.. For other swords there are also many places. Whats you pleasure my dear?
Thx Jamile, pls have a look at that link - showing my favourite Katana's:
http://www.swords-and-more.com/frame.html
Pls scroll down to the Samurai-Katana, that's what I'm looking for.
They surely will increase prices soon, so if you have an insiders' tip south of the border, I'd be happy
- it's just a hop from here 
- hehe...
BTW: In Germany, they are considering about thrustings, too
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
- I hope not about a ban!
dudeist skydiver # 3105
Scoop 0
Also consider that if their is a regulated sale of items, persons found to be in posession of such an item. i.e Neds/Chavs, whatever you wanna call them, will face tougher penalties.
Its the same reason we have knife and gun amnesties now and again. When it goes to court the prosecution and judge can say... but you had opportunity to get rid of the item without fear of prosecution and you chose to keep hold of it.
Or in the case of swords, you should not be in posession of this item as you don't have the neccesary licence/authority (however they are going to do it). If your not a registered collector or historian then preusmably you had some other intention for use of the item.
Both the above scenarios lead to tougher prison sentances and punishements of shitbags. Something that we know is already too lenient. THis will just help dangerous people away for longer.
As you previouslly stated, if the law is enforced wisely it will be effective tool.
Its the same reason we have knife and gun amnesties now and again. When it goes to court the prosecution and judge can say... but you had opportunity to get rid of the item without fear of prosecution and you chose to keep hold of it.
Or in the case of swords, you should not be in posession of this item as you don't have the neccesary licence/authority (however they are going to do it). If your not a registered collector or historian then preusmably you had some other intention for use of the item.
Both the above scenarios lead to tougher prison sentances and punishements of shitbags. Something that we know is already too lenient. THis will just help dangerous people away for longer.
As you previouslly stated, if the law is enforced wisely it will be effective tool.
kbordson 8
Whether it be swords, guns, or box cuters, I just don't like "the government" deciding what I should and shouldn't own. Much of it's a trust issue. Why should "The government" trust me, and why should I trust "the government"?
But, should there be limits and where should the limit be placed... I don't know. Skydekker made a good point that some reasonable controls are "useful."
Do I trust Homer Simpson walking around with a Stinger or Mr. and Mrs. Smith with an accelerator in their backyard? But yet we trust the government and companies with that and more. I personally don't know Pier Oddone (current Director of the Fermi lab) nor James Dyer (Director of the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulations). But I have to trust that the government knew what they were doing when he was appointed. Could Homer be placed in either of those positions? I hope not!! I hope that their qualifications were based on their knowledge and expertise, but what about ethics? Did their interviews include an indepth eval of their beleifs. And who's judging them and their beleifs, more of "the governments" employees? What are their ethics? "The government" has made other foolish choices.
More scary than nuclear stuffs... what about biologlogics? Everyone will agree that the thought of Suzie Homemaker playing around with smallpox in the kitchen is right out, but again ... lets look at the government. Colonel George W. Korch, Jr is the Commanding Officer at USAMRIID (U.S. Army Medical Research Institue of Infectious Diseases). Can I be confident on how that promotion occured? Again, I need to believe that he has the ability and integrity to handle that, but it's still just a trust issue. I was in the military myself... I've seen the peter principle at work.
"The government" should be "the people." But it often times isn't. Yes, we, in America, are able to exercise our rights with voting, which empowers us with some decision making capability... but sometimes the way the bill is "sold" through the media will influence the vote. "We, the people" get lazy, then as they're watching Fear Factor tonight, they hear about an ad for Yaris and then another for a political advertisment . Now they think they're educated to make a decision... and don't do anymore research or self thought. And so the bill passes.... which helps to benefit the group that paid some of the $400 million for the ads.
I liked this quote in V for Vendetta by Alan Moore
So back to the question at the top... where to place limits? Who to trust to place limits? Why them?
Much of it depends on where you draw the line between Anarchism and Independant Thought? Was Guy Fawkes right or wrong? Was George Washington a terrorist or a revolutionary?
A lot more to debate here than just whether Duncan MacCloud should have his claymore.
But, should there be limits and where should the limit be placed... I don't know. Skydekker made a good point that some reasonable controls are "useful."
Do I trust Homer Simpson walking around with a Stinger or Mr. and Mrs. Smith with an accelerator in their backyard? But yet we trust the government and companies with that and more. I personally don't know Pier Oddone (current Director of the Fermi lab) nor James Dyer (Director of the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulations). But I have to trust that the government knew what they were doing when he was appointed. Could Homer be placed in either of those positions? I hope not!! I hope that their qualifications were based on their knowledge and expertise, but what about ethics? Did their interviews include an indepth eval of their beleifs. And who's judging them and their beleifs, more of "the governments" employees? What are their ethics? "The government" has made other foolish choices.
More scary than nuclear stuffs... what about biologlogics? Everyone will agree that the thought of Suzie Homemaker playing around with smallpox in the kitchen is right out, but again ... lets look at the government. Colonel George W. Korch, Jr is the Commanding Officer at USAMRIID (U.S. Army Medical Research Institue of Infectious Diseases). Can I be confident on how that promotion occured? Again, I need to believe that he has the ability and integrity to handle that, but it's still just a trust issue. I was in the military myself... I've seen the peter principle at work.
"The government" should be "the people." But it often times isn't. Yes, we, in America, are able to exercise our rights with voting, which empowers us with some decision making capability... but sometimes the way the bill is "sold" through the media will influence the vote. "We, the people" get lazy, then as they're watching Fear Factor tonight, they hear about an ad for Yaris and then another for a political advertisment . Now they think they're educated to make a decision... and don't do anymore research or self thought. And so the bill passes.... which helps to benefit the group that paid some of the $400 million for the ads.
I liked this quote in V for Vendetta by Alan Moore
QuoteV: Good evening, London. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security, the familiar, the tranquility, repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the annunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance, and depression. And where once you had the freedom to object, think, and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillence coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myraid of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed the Old Bailey, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than four hundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives
So back to the question at the top... where to place limits? Who to trust to place limits? Why them?
Much of it depends on where you draw the line between Anarchism and Independant Thought? Was Guy Fawkes right or wrong? Was George Washington a terrorist or a revolutionary?
A lot more to debate here than just whether Duncan MacCloud should have his claymore.
....
Or in the case of swords, you should not be in posession of this item as you don't have the neccesary licence/authority (however they are going to do it). If your not a registered collector or historian then preusmably you had some other intention for use of the item.
....
Or in the case of swords, you should not be in posession of this item as you don't have the neccesary licence/authority (however they are going to do it). If your not a registered collector or historian then preusmably you had some other intention for use of the item.
....
Perhaps you remember that incident?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,2763,1451551,00.html
After that, I wonder how it would look like to achieve any licence to own such "killing" tools...
You Brits are nuts, same as Germans
dudeist skydiver # 3105
Scoop 0
I don't remember it no, but incidents involving swords are more common than people think.
Also speaking from an officer safety perspective going round peoples house and seeing swords all over the walls is sometimes worrying. Especially if you have to deliver bad news or are there to effect an arrest. The only way we know someone has swords in a property is if an officer has been there before and put in an intelligence report.
For example if you go to a domestic incident you do a check on the address before you arrive for safety reasons. You may well be informed over radio: Known for violence, theft, wounding, domestic violence, child abuse. Also intelligence says there are swords in the property.
.. and I assure you that is pretty standard, not an exaggeration. Our regular 'customers' are generally nasty bits of work
Also speaking from an officer safety perspective going round peoples house and seeing swords all over the walls is sometimes worrying. Especially if you have to deliver bad news or are there to effect an arrest. The only way we know someone has swords in a property is if an officer has been there before and put in an intelligence report.
For example if you go to a domestic incident you do a check on the address before you arrive for safety reasons. You may well be informed over radio: Known for violence, theft, wounding, domestic violence, child abuse. Also intelligence says there are swords in the property.
.. and I assure you that is pretty standard, not an exaggeration. Our regular 'customers' are generally nasty bits of work
Skyrad 0
There was a nut case who hacked a woman to death in a church in Tornton Heath a few years ago as well. Then there was the nutter that hacked a police officers hand off with a Katana. In south London its pretty common for people to attack others with Katanas.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
QuoteThere was a nut case who hacked a woman to death in a church in Tornton Heath a few years ago as well. Then there was the nutter that hacked a police officers hand off with a Katana. In south London its pretty common for people to attack others with Katanas.
Sounds nice, visiting the island must be hell of fun *gulp*
May I bring along all my personal weapons for self defense? *scratching head* - I have to check this out as I really don't know.
I think should reconsider my travel plans a bit
dudeist skydiver # 3105
JohnRich 4
QuoteBottom line is, I have no interest in swords and nor have 99% of the population. So who exactly is going to vote against this proposal?
Quote:
Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands")There's another famous quote I can't find right now, and can't remember enough of it. It says something like: "Only when those masses uninterested in freedom can be convinced to vote in favor of it, can freedom be saved."
— Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the younger" ca. (4 BC - 65 AD)
JohnRich 4
QuoteOr in the case of swords, you should not be in posession of this item as you don't have the neccesary licence/authority. If your not a registered collector or historian then preusmably you had some other intention for use of the item. Both the above scenarios lead to tougher prison sentances and punishements of shitbags...
Now there is the kind of attitude I find disturbing. Just because someone doesn't have a piece of paper from the government giving permission to own a sword, doesn't mean that he is a "shitbag" with criminal intent. And yet you want to use this very scenario to automatically presume that these people are "shitbags" and to put them in prison for a very long time. And all they've done is hang a decorative historical sword on their wall.
And you expect us to trust the government's police to treat us with proper respect and dignity?
And you expect us to trust the government's police to treat us with proper respect and dignity?
Hi JohnRich,
who is "us" and about whose government's police are you talking?
edited for correct wording
dudeist skydiver # 3105
http://www.duellist.com/cgi-bin/fencing.cgi
This is where I bought my Sabre.
There are lots of martial arts shops if you're looking for Katana.. For other swords there are also many places. Whats you pleasure my dear?
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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