Same conflict, different aspect

[billvon 3,107]

>"honey, let's go eat gyro's tonight"
>"Why, you got something again mexicans?"

So did you get talked into eating mexicans, or did you have to admit you were racist?

[beowulf 1]

Guess I should have cowered and ran, but I guess I won't.

I am still waiting for Darius's reply.

[kallend 2,146]

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Right and that doesn't compare to Hezbollah. Who are not sustaining a low grade offensive, but a much higher grade offensive. Hezbollah has a part in the Lebonese Govt. I would call that funding and sustaining Hezbollah.

Israel went to war over a kidnapping. Pretty low grade offensive, I'd say. The escalation came after.

And the political wing of the IRA (Sinn Fein) has members in the Irish Parliament. So according to you that should justify Britain bombing the shit out of Dublin, right?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Darius11 12]

Let rewind here a bit.

I just posted a video that if you have the time you should watch.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9071731896689197790&q=galloway

The main point’s people seem to forget.
1. this is not a 4 week old conflict this has been going on for years and years
2. Israel has illegally occupied land that belongs to Lebanon
3. Israel has held captive Lebanese citizens
4. The solders who were “kid napped” or captured could have been on either side of the boarder. So if they were on the Lebanese side whom would you like to blame?


You should really do some research and put your self in the Lebanese and Palestinian shoes.

Lets not forget Israel also did not respect a democratically elected Palestinian government.


What did Israel expect the people to do? You take their land you kill their people, you bulldoze any of their houses you wish you treat them with no dignity, and you want them to smile at you?
Off course they are going to want to kill you this is not rocket science.

The Palestinians hate Jews fuck yes they hate Jews you know why they hate Jews because the people killing them and stealing there land happen to be Jewish.

I would bet you anything if the Israelis were from the planet asshole and were blue with green hair. The Palestinians would hate everyone from the planet asshole who was blue.

Again not rocket science.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[beowulf 1]

I don't think what Israel is doing is the right thing, but I do think that if Hezbollah didn't want to see civilian casualties and any other collateral damage then they shouldnt have picked this fight. I don't justify any of this at all.

[beowulf 1]

Not possible for me to view that video right now. It will have to wait till I get home.

Didn't Israel pull out of Lebanon quite awhile ago? Just prior to this current conflict Israel was not occupying any Lebanese land.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Not possible for me to view that video right now. It will have to wait till I get home.

Didn't Israel pull out of Lebanon quite awhile ago? Just prior to this current conflict Israel was not occupying any Lebanese land.

Yes they were/are. But Israel didn't consider it Lebanon's but rather Syria's. However Syria said it's not theirs but Lebanon's. Regardless, it isn't/wasn't Israel's.

[beowulf 1]

Despite the land confict starting a war is hardly a good idea if you are seriously out gunned and out numbered. It definitely does not help them regain the lost land. It would be much better to build up what they had and seek a diplomatic route then seing their economy destroyed by war. Apparently Hezbollah is not interested in a peaceful route towards attaining their goals.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Despite the land confict starting a war is hardly a good idea if you are seriously out gunned and out numbered. It definitely does not help them regain the lost land. It would be much better to build up what they had and seek a diplomatic route then seing their economy destroyed by war. Apparently Hezbollah is not interested in a peaceful route towards attaining their goals.

Would this debate change at all if someone pointed out that Israel had been planning this war?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/21/MNG2QK396D1.DTL&hw=kalman&sn=001&sc=1000

[beowulf 1]

Ya think. So was Hezbollah. Does it really matter who was planning it first?

Israel would have been stupid to ignore Hezbollah and not plan for this war.

[Amazon 7]

DUH


From your link

Of all of Israel's wars since 1948, this was the one for which Israel was most prepared," said Gerald Steinberg, professor of political science at Bar-Ilan University. "In a sense, the preparation began in May 2000, immediately after the Israeli withdrawal, when it became clear the international community was not going to prevent Hezbollah from stockpiling missiles and attacking Israel.

They saw what was coming.. and it did not even take a biblical prophet to see it. Their enemy was strengthening themselves to attack them... and then they did...just as predicted. Perhaps if Lebanon would not allow their land to be used by the terrorists.... this would not have happened. I guess we will see what happens after THIS ceace fire and withdrawal.

[kallend 2,146]

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Despite the land confict starting a war is hardly a good idea if you are seriously out gunned and out numbered. It definitely does not help them regain the lost land. It would be much better to build up what they had and seek a diplomatic route then seing their economy destroyed by war. Apparently Hezbollah is not interested in a peaceful route towards attaining their goals.

Would this debate change at all if someone pointed out that Israel had been planning this war?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/21/MNG2QK396D1.DTL&hw=kalman&sn=001&sc=1000

I would have been far more surprised if they hadn't.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,107]

>Would this debate change at all if someone pointed out that Israel had been planning this war?

Not much. Both sides have clearly been planning for war for a while now.

[beowulf 1]

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Again not rocket science.

So do you support Hezbollah?

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The main point’s people seem to forget.
1. this is not a 4 week old conflict this has been going on for years and years
2. Israel has illegally occupied land that belongs to Lebanon
3. Israel has held captive Lebanese citizens
4. The solders who were “kid napped” or captured could have been on either side of the boarder. So if they were on the Lebanese side whom would you like to blame?

Despite all of this how can you say that what Hezbollah is doing is helping the situation at all?

Please explain that to me!

[bch7773 0]

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Do the facts hurt? Or does it make you feel uncomfortable that the government you support has ruined so many lives? Does it make you feel better pretending all the people who lives have been changed or killed are brown people or terrorists?

dude knock the chip off your shoulder and continue the discussion rationally.

mindless accusations of racism don't help you prove your point.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[idrankwhat 0]

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DUH


From your link

Of all of Israel's wars since 1948, this was the one for which Israel was most prepared," said Gerald Steinberg, professor of political science at Bar-Ilan University. "In a sense, the preparation began in May 2000, immediately after the Israeli withdrawal, when it became clear the international community was not going to prevent Hezbollah from stockpiling missiles and attacking Israel.

They saw what was coming.. and it did not even take a biblical prophet to see it. Their enemy was strengthening themselves to attack them... and then they did...just as predicted. Perhaps if Lebanon would not allow their land to be used by the terrorists.... this would not have happened. I guess we will see what happens after THIS ceace fire and withdrawal.

So basically you're arguing for the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive defense. Admittedly, in this case there was actually a *potential* threat. Does anyone think that Israel couldn't deal with it if it became an *actual* threat? Why not wait (and no, kidnapping of a soldier that may not have been on Israeli soil is not a real threat)? The firepower difference is exponential.

[idrankwhat 0]

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>Would this debate change at all if someone pointed out that Israel had been planning this war?

Not much. Both sides have clearly been planning for war for a while now.

Planning for war and seeking it are two different things. That aside, this is why I post what I post. Both sides are to blame. Both sides should get the blame. Israel is a bad neighbor and antagonizes, Lebanon and Palestine retaliate and really don't want them around regardless of the circumstances. The US and other Arab states fuel the conflict because of this stupidly shortsighted battle over access to non-renewable fuel sources and imperialstic manipulation. The end result, the US enables/arms only one side but pretends it's doing otherwise and want peace. And it pisses off a bunch of people who we've already pissed off in numerous circumstances so now they want to kill us too.....again. So we're going to get attacked again. We bring it on ourselves. Accept it. And the best part of all, us taxpayers get to foot the bill for the provocation AND the clean up. Frankly, I'm tired of this shit. I'm seeing the cost but I'm not seeing much of the benefit. Only a very few very wealthy people benefit from this. Sorry to sound so pessimistic but I think the best thing for this world would be to nuke it from orbit. We've clearly shown that we refuse learn from history and we don't deserve the resources we've been given. No wonder the aliens won't stop in to say hello. And damn it, if Jesus were here he'd kick our asses if given the chance. I'm going to the bonfire. Maybe there's a discussion about boobs. Sure, it's rehashed nonsense but so is this.
/rant

[rickjump1 0]

Darius, do you believe the Lebanese government has power over Hezbollah?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rickjump1 0]

Isolate Israel politically and bleed them. Is it any wonder they are dusting off bunker-busters and tac-nukes? It's a religious obligation for both Israel and Iran.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Isolate Israel politically and bleed them. Is it any wonder they are dusting off bunker-busters and tac-nukes? It's a religious obligation for both Israel and Iran.

I say that we take about a thousand of our old nukes and just hand them out to everyone over there. Mutually assured destruction worked in the previous cold war. Who's to say that it won't work now. And if it doesn't, the US can look on the bright side. Now we won't have to send Israel $3 billion/yr and there will be no Arab/Israeli conflict for which we can pick sides. Worry/don't worry. I'm only half serious. I'm just not sure which half

[beowulf 1]

Darius,

From what you have written it would be hard for me to not conclude that you do support Hezbollah. You have every right to support them if you so wish to. But consider this their strategy for dealing with Israel is destroying themselves and everyone around them. Even if they did manage to push Israel out of existence they and their culture would barely exist if that. A better strategy would be to build up the Lebanese economy to where they rivaled or exceeded Israel in wealth. Along with that wealth would come political power. Unfortunately Hezbollah is too stupid and fanatical to see beyond their hate. Hamas is no different.

Your list is nothing but excuses to continue this vicious cycle of hate and destruction.