DJL 235 #76 August 8, 2006 Quote If you also believe that we should take Neo Nazi's seriously and consider their jibberish, Wow, we got to Godwin's Law pretty quickly on this one..."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #77 August 8, 2006 >But some people have committed such attrocities that any defense >of them, I consider useless and not worth reading. I used to think that way. But the Unabomber wrote some interesting stuff, even if I have no plans to blow people up. Mein Kampf contains some interesting observations on the relationship between goverment and the people even though his conclusions were completely wrong. Heck, Hirohito himself wrote some useful stuff about marine biology, and significantly advanced our understanding of cnidaria. It would be silly to throw that out because he was an enemy emperor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #78 August 8, 2006 QuoteQuote If you also believe that we should take Neo Nazi's seriously and consider their jibberish, Wow, we got to Godwin's Law pretty quickly on this one... Not quite, it seems like you didn't read your link. This IS indeed quite similar, and therefore the comparison applies. Nice try ,If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #79 August 8, 2006 Quote>But some people have committed such attrocities that any defense >of them, I consider useless and not worth reading. I used to think that way. But the Unabomber wrote some interesting stuff, even if I have no plans to blow people up. Mein Kampf contains some interesting observations on the relationship between goverment and the people even though his conclusions were completely wrong. Heck, Hirohito himself wrote some useful stuff about marine biology, and significantly advanced our understanding of cnidaria. It would be silly to throw that out because he was an enemy emperor. Right but here you would be reading about what was learned and not a defense for Hirohito or the Unibomber. If Castro's doctor made some advancements in medicince because of the unethical use of human specimens, (which I don't doubt as a possibility), then sure lets learn what he learned ABOUT THAT. But if somebody is going to use this advance in medicine to make a defense for Castro, I won't be listening. Nothing could ever justify the hundreds of thousands he had killed. ,If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #80 August 8, 2006 QuoteQuote If you also believe that we should take Neo Nazi's seriously and consider their jibberish, Wow, we got to Godwin's Law pretty quickly on this one... Godwin's Law applies specifically to the original Nazi's, NOT Neo-Nazis. And... Given that the nature of this forum specifically invites historical comparison, the Acne-Ridden application of Godwin's law (You mentioned the Nazis so you lose) can hardly apply here. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,156 #81 August 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote If you also believe that we should take Neo Nazi's seriously and consider their jibberish, Wow, we got to Godwin's Law pretty quickly on this one... Godwin's Law applies specifically to the original Nazi's, NOT Neo-Nazis. And... Given that the nature of this forum specifically invites historical comparison, the Acne-Ridden application of Godwin's law (You mentioned the Nazis so you lose) can hardly apply here. Mike. Where is the proof that Godwin's Law is true. Surely it's just a theory.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #82 August 9, 2006 QuoteWhere is the proof that Godwin's Law is true. Surely it's just a theory. I'd suggest that it's a theory (a rule?) that's been empirically proven. This is hardly unreasonable. Nazism, it's origins and it's consequences on 20th Century history have been massive and there remains lessons to be learnt and parallels drawn with that period. I do take issue with the idiotic acne-ridden application of this rule during internet discussions. The idea that the first person to draw parallels from that period automatically ends the discussion and loses any argument is a childish artificial barrier to free & considered discussion. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #83 August 9, 2006 QuoteThe idea that the first person to draw parallels from that period automatically ends the discussion and loses any argument is a childish artificial barrier to free & considered discussion. You appear to be drawing many negative parallels with children and their acne problems. You don't hate children...do you?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #84 August 9, 2006 QuoteWhere is the proof that Godwin's Law is true. Surely it's just a theory. Oh that poor old maid Godwin...always the theory, never the theorem."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #85 August 9, 2006 QuoteYou appear to be drawing many negative parallels with children and their acne problems. You don't hate children...do you? I have three!!! Go figure. I really feel that Godwin's rule as applied in: "You mentioned Nazi's & Hitler... Therefore you lose!" is artificial, childish and false. Foolish in any attempt to apply it universally and automatically. Any political & current affairs discussion is likely to BEG comparisons & parallels with history. Like it or not, Nazism, it's origins and consequences touches directly on almost everything after 1918 so comparison at some point is likely to be inevitable during an informed discussion. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #86 August 9, 2006 QuoteI have three!!! Go figure. That answers my question, you're DERANGED!!! Oh...where the world and internet jargon would be if Nelson had not prevailed."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #87 August 9, 2006 I wonder how long Castro would have actually ruled had all the Ultra Right Wing Counter-Revolutionairies not run away to Miami and had stayed home to fight for "their" country. Instead they ran around training in the Everglades for a war that never came...( but it was sure a good scam for raising millions of dollars to line their pockets from the CIA) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #88 August 9, 2006 Not to mention that wonderful operation "Mongoose" gee where did that all start? who signed the executive order? How many years was it implemented? I hate Castro but I think we all need to remember a few facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #89 August 9, 2006 Gee are you saying the CIA had an EARLIER failure in intelligence and operation??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #90 August 9, 2006 QuoteGee are you saying the CIA had an EARLIER failure in intelligence and operation??? This reminds me of Roger Hall's memoirs of his time in The Office of Strategic Services (which is rightly still available). After the liberation of Norway, he was talking to an Abwehr officer and asked him: "Did you hear of the OSS?" The reply was: "Oh yes, we knew all about the OSS. It was the cover for the Americans' real intelligence operation... Whatever that was." Thinking about it, the first failures with regard to Cuba were the CIA operations in Iran & Guatemala in 1953 & '54. The Castros & Guevara saw these operations to topple Socialist Governments (launched from the US Embassies) and realised that if they were to be successful in pursuing a socialist policy, they'd have to maximise their exclusion of American influences in Cuba. That also explains Iran's actions against the American Embassy in 1979. They were expecting any counter-revolution to be planned and launched from there. Call it "RealPolitik", but Y'All really didn't play nice in those days. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #91 August 9, 2006 Quote>But some people have committed such attrocities that any defense >of them, I consider useless and not worth reading. I used to think that way. But the Unabomber wrote some interesting stuff, even if I have no plans to blow people up. Mein Kampf contains some interesting observations on the relationship between goverment and the people even though his conclusions were completely wrong. Heck, Hirohito himself wrote some useful stuff about marine biology, and significantly advanced our understanding of cnidaria. It would be silly to throw that out because he was an enemy emperor. Excessive intellegence can lead to neurosis/misanthropy perhaps? Too much of a good thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #92 August 9, 2006 QuoteWow, we got to Godwin's Law pretty quickly on this one... I wonder when someone will come up with a new law that describes the criteria for Godwin's Law being mentioned in a thread within a certain number of threads that mention Hitler or Nazis. Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #93 August 9, 2006 Already there, brother. Yeah, that's the zeroth, when it happens it means you're spending too much time on the internet."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #94 August 9, 2006 QuoteI wonder how long Castro would have actually ruled had all the Ultra Right Wing Counter-Revolutionairies not run away to Miami and had stayed home to fight for "their" country. Instead they ran around training in the Everglades for a war that never came...( but it was sure a good scam for raising millions of dollars to line their pockets from the CIA) I am sure you would have preferred to have more counter-revolutionaries die in firing squads ordered by Castro or Che, than come over here as immigrants, with nothing, and within a couple of decades be far more successful than people like yourself who had been here for 3 or more generations. Knowing that such ignorance and disregared for human life exits even in such a great country as the U.S., I am thankful that atleast the U.S. government and the CIA didn't fall prey to such imorality and jealousy. ,If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #95 August 9, 2006 Quote... more counter-revolutionaries die in firing squads ordered by Castro or Che, than come over here as immigrants, with nothing, and within a couple of decades... Heroes All! Only... When ANY Cuban who got to America was automatically welcomed and given full citizenship, didn't Castro take the opportunity to EMPTY his prisons onto boats and literally tow them to American Territorial waters? You have to smile at such a plan for ridding a society of it's dregs. In fact... Can Y'All get some Government to embargo US on the same terms please? We have a SHITLOAD of Political Prisoners (who also happen to be thieves, thugs, rapists, child-molestors, murderers, etc...) just waiting for the opportunity to escape to a free country where they can live their lives without fear of persecution from our regime! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #96 August 9, 2006 QuoteQuote... more counter-revolutionaries die in firing squads ordered by Castro or Che, than come over here as immigrants, with nothing, and within a couple of decades... Heroes All! Only... When ANY Cuban who got to America was automatically welcomed and given full citizenship, didn't Castro take the opportunity to EMPTY his prisons onto boats and literally tow them to American Territorial waters? You have to smile at such a plan for ridding a society of it's dregs. In fact... Can Y'All get some Government to embargo US on the same terms please? We have a SHITLOAD of Political Prisoners (who also happen to be thieves, thugs, rapists, child-molestors, murderers, etc...) just waiting for the opportunity to escape to a free country where they can live their lives without fear of persecution from our regime! Mike. I find it fasinating how when people talk about something they really don't understand they spout off partial truths to confuse the issue. First of all what you are describing was the Mariel boat lift in 1980. The majority of the Cuban-Americans exiles came in the 1960's. Second of all out of the 125,000 that came in 1980 through Mariel harbor, it was an estimated 25,000 that had criminal records, many who were branded as criminals simply for opposing the communist government. There were a lot of bad people that came in 1980 staining the Cuban name, but even so it was a small minority. Basically this was not the first time Castro went on his little rant saying anybody who wants to leave can. The first time he did that was in 1966, which was when a lot of the parents came and got together with the children that they sent in 1962 in search for a meaningful life. Still, it didn't take long on both these occasion for Castro to realize he was loosing to many people, because nobody wanted to live with his shit. The main difference in 1980 was that Castro got creative and rather than just letting anybody who wanted to leave go, he went to the jails, and mental institutions to ask people if they wanted to leave. None the less 80% of the imigrants arriving in 1980 were NOT from jails and of the ones that were many were political prisoners. So it looks like you need to do some better research and preferably not from the biased BBC, if you want to atleast sound like you have a minimal understanding of what is and has really occurred. ,If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #97 August 9, 2006 QuoteI am sure you would have preferred to have more counter-revolutionaries die in firing squads ordered by Castro or Che, than come over here as immigrants, with nothing, and within a couple of decades be far more successful than people like yourself who had been here for 3 or more generations. I meant what I said...I would have preferred for them to stay and FIGHT....to stand up for what they believed in. By the way I do fairly well...and that was by doing it all myself...served my country and used the GI Bill....with no help from my family ....shoots your statement of bile right in the foot now doesnt it. You state that many of your fellow escapees came with nothing.. MANY of you escaped with vast sums of wealth...when Batista fell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #98 August 9, 2006 >I find it fasinating how when people talk about something they really don't understand . . . . Indeed. I think you completely misunderstood his post. It was not a pro-Castro sentiment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #99 August 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteI am sure you would have preferred to have more counter-revolutionaries die in firing squads ordered by Castro or Che, than come over here as immigrants, with nothing, and within a couple of decades be far more successful than people like yourself who had been here for 3 or more generations. I meant what I said...I would have preferred for them to stay and FIGHT....to stand up for what they believed in. By the way I do fairly well...and that was by doing it all myself...served my country and used the GI Bill....with no help from my family ....shoots your statement of bile right in the foot now doesnt it. No I don't think it does. I am sure that at best you earn 1/3 of what my father and many Cubans like him (People who learned English in their mid twenties in a foreign country, where unlike you they really did have to start from the bottom) ,If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #100 August 9, 2006 Go on beleiving what you will....but I think you would be very surprised. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
