USA Federal deficit

[Lucky... 0]

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Not true. The Dems have played the role of the minority in the Senate expertly. Even a lone senator may put an anonymous hold on a bill according to Senate rules.

Sorry, wrong. Don't you recall the fillibuster debacle? The Republicans whined about threatening to pass a rule outlawing fillibusters unless the Dems backed off, so in return the Repubs gave up on one of their fedral nutjob judges.

[Lucky... 0]

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Not true. The Dems have played the role of the minority in the Senate expertly. Even a lone senator may put an anonymous hold on a bill according to Senate rules.

Is this an indefinite hold? You are telling me that a lone indepent senator can bring the administration to halt, indefinitely? I seriously doubt that.....which means that my original point stands. He could ahve done great thhing with a majority backing him in both houses....to me it looks like he has done little to nothing with that opportunity...

They can, but the Repubs threatened to oust age-old fillibuster rules, so the Dems gave in. The Repubs want total control so bad theat they will even change the rules midstream.

[Lucky... 0]

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Lets not forget his attempts to reform Social Security which was defeated by the Dems saying it wasn't a real problem.


Both parties are out of control with the spending. Makes me sick!

Agreed on the excessive spending. But bringing banks and Wall St. in as a way to "save" SS is about the stupidest big government idea I've seen in a long time, unless of course your work for the banks or Wall st. The way to start working on the SS problem is to quit raiding it every year to make the deficit look smaller. Everyone keeps saying "a record number of people will be tapping the fund" but what they deliberately fail to mention is that that means that a record number of people are currently paying IN to the program. The fact that we let our government get away with this crap either means that people have been dumbed down to the point that we just don't care any more or that the people don't realize that their representatives are not actually representing them. Actually I think it's both.
Who's got the pitchforks and torches?!?!?!?!

There is no better way to fund peoples retire,emt than to bring Wall Street into it. Where do you think current pension money is invested? Afraid of accepting much risk in the Market? Just put your money into an index fund. Very little risk and assurances of a much better rate of return than giving it to the govt. iirc the rate of return of money invested in SS is around 1%. The worst Fund Manager on Wall St. would easily triple that. The Dems use ignorance and fear to scare people into trusting the Govt. which I'm sure you would be the first to admit is a huge mistake.

I got the kerosene and I'm ready whenever you are. Problem is, neither party would be a better choice.

Absolutely, we can trust corporations with our very lives. How do you explain corpoarte failures like Enron, Worldcom, United, etc............?

[Lucky... 0]

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Actually, he made it worse with the prescription drug program. To his credit, he did seek to eliminate ineffective programs from DoEd and was crucified by the left for it - some of them howling simultaneously about the debt!

You might lok at federal tax revenues from year to year over GWB's term.

Lets not forget his attempts to reform Social Security which was defeated by the Dems saying it wasn't a real problem. One which we had plenty of time to deal with.

Guess which party wants to Socialize medicine and have the Govt. pay for it. No. Prob, we can afford it.

Both parties are out of control with the spending. Makes me sick!

We could if we would stop pandering to corps.

Still think Corps. pay taxes, huh?

Raise Corp taxes 15%, they will raise prices 15%. Who's getting soaked then? Amazing you can't see the shell game.

They can only charge what the market will bear, but the the gov can redistribute monies where they are needed. Let corps hang on to cash and they sit on it at times, stagnating the economy.

[idrankwhat 0]

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There is no better way to fund peoples retire,emt than to bring Wall Street into it. Where do you think current pension money is invested? Afraid of accepting much risk in the Market? Just put your money into an index fund. Very little risk and assurances of a much better rate of return than giving it to the govt. iirc the rate of return of money invested in SS is around 1%. The worst Fund Manager on Wall St. would easily triple that. The Dems use ignorance and fear to scare people into trusting the Govt. which I'm sure you would be the first to admit is a huge mistake.

I got the kerosene and I'm ready whenever you are. Problem is, neither party would be a better choice.

The banks and Walls St were two of Bush's major campaign contributors. All of his other contributors have been given their respective hand outs, big pharma is the best example. Right now the banks and WS are not sucking directly off the fed's teet with their own real estate on the budget. I'd like to keep it that way because I don't expect them to do anything but add to the overhead and provide more tax loopholes for the few. As for the kerosene, I'm not interested in either of the two parties surviving the mob.

[billvon 3,120]

>Still think Corps. pay taxes, huh?
>Raise Corp taxes 15%, they will raise prices 15%. Who's getting
>soaked then? Amazing you can't see the shell game.

Still think that tax cuts make debt disappear? Amazing that some people think that if we cut taxes, the money owed just . . . goes away.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Agreed on the excessive spending. But bringing banks and Wall St. in as a way to "save" SS is about the stupidest big government idea I've seen in a long time,

Social Security is a bunch of government programs including disability insurance, life insurance, and a safety net for old people with insufficient funds to retire. With the government and the necessary tax burden at their current size, these programs need to exist but should be treated like other government functions, with a line entry on the budget and funding from general revenues.

Currently Social Security is also a mandatory retirement savings plan with attrocious returns. An average earning male born after 1966 will get a .5% inflation adjusted rate of return on Social Security. Low-income black males with a shorter life expectancy are likely to have negative return rates. Assuming the retirement age isn't increased, FICA taxes don't go up, and social security benefits increase with inflation (all of which Congress can change with a pen stroke) I'll need to outlast my statistically expected lifespan by five years to get a 0% inflation adjusted return on my investments. If I took my current investment out, made the same contributions in the future, and got a 3% inflation adjusted rate of return from investing in low-risk high-quality bonds I could get

$134K a year for the same 15 years: over 4X my social security benefit
$72K a year until I die at 100: over 2X my social security benefit
$44K a year forever: nearly 30% more than my social security benefit with $1.5M in today's money going to my heirs

As it stands the numbers are $32K a year with a big fat zero going to my heirs.

Which would you rather have?

Privatizing the social security retirement plan is the only reasonable idea to come out of this administration although I wouldn't trust them to implement it.

[Lucky... 0]

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>Still think Corps. pay taxes, huh?
>Raise Corp taxes 15%, they will raise prices 15%. Who's getting
>soaked then? Amazing you can't see the shell game.

Still think that tax cuts make debt disappear? Amazing that some people think that if we cut taxes, the money owed just . . . goes away.

Hey, if I quit my jib my bills will go away using the other philosophy..... think I'll try it

[akarunway 1]

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Lets not forget his attempts to reform Social Security which was defeated by the Dems saying it wasn't a real problem.


Both parties are out of control with the spending. Makes me sick!

Agreed on the excessive spending. But bringing banks and Wall St. in as a way to "save" SS is about the stupidest big government idea I've seen in a long time, unless of course your work for the banks or Wall st. The way to start working on the SS problem is to quit raiding it every year to make the deficit look smaller. Everyone keeps saying "a record number of people will be tapping the fund" but what they deliberately fail to mention is that that means that a record number of people are currently paying IN to the program. The fact that we let our government get away with this crap either means that people have been dumbed down to the point that we just don't care any more or that the people don't realize that their representatives are not actually representing them. Actually I think it's both.
Who's got the pitchforks and torches?!?!?!?!

There is no better way to fund peoples retire,emt than to bring Wall Street into it. Where do you think current pension money is invested? Afraid of accepting much risk in the Market? Just put your money into an index fund. Very little risk and assurances of a much better rate of return than giving it to the govt. iirc the rate of return of money invested in SS is around 1%. The worst Fund Manager on Wall St. would easily triple that. The Dems use ignorance and fear to scare people into trusting the Govt. which I'm sure you would be the first to admit is a huge mistake.

I got the kerosene and I'm ready whenever you are. Problem is, neither party would be a better choice.

Absolutely, we can trust corporations with our very lives. How do you explain corpoarte failures like Enron, Worldcom, United, etc............?

You beat me to that one_________________________________

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[billvon 3,120]

>Hey, if I quit my jib my bills will go away using the other
>philosophy..... think I'll try it.

Well, that wouldn't work. But if you quit your job, start buying a lot of expensive stuff, and get a new credit card every month - you might just pull off a good living under the Bush Economic Plan.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Privatizing the social security retirement plan is the only reasonable idea to come out of this administration although I wouldn't trust them to implement it.

Which is precisely my point. What do you get when you have a poorly implemented plan and you fix it with a poorly implemented plan? These folks have shown us repeatedly who these plans ultimately benefit, and it ain't us.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Absolutely, we can trust corporations with our very lives. How do you explain corpoarte failures like Enron, Worldcom, United, etc............?

You beat me to that one_________________________________

[TheAnvil 0]

Read up on your facts and get back to us.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

If you'd read the CBO data I posted, you'd know that 2005 saw the U.S. gov't take in record revenues. If you were familiar with the budget, the debt, and the structure of either, you'd never make such a statement.

The CBO, Bureau of the Public Debt, and OMB all have superb online resources for you to learn about such things. I suggest you avail yourself of their use.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[masterrig 1]

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If you'd read the CBO data I posted, you'd know that 2005 saw the U.S. gov't take in record revenues. If you were familiar with the budget, the debt, and the structure of either, you'd never make such a statement.

The CBO, Bureau of the Public Debt, and OMB all have superb online resources for you to learn about such things. I suggest you avail yourself of their use.

___________________________________




Chuck

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Still think Corps. pay taxes, huh?
>Raise Corp taxes 15%, they will raise prices 15%. Who's getting
>soaked then? Amazing you can't see the shell game.

Still think that tax cuts make debt disappear? Amazing that some people think that if we cut taxes, the money owed just . . . goes away.

Amazing that some people think the way to stimulate business and keep people employed is to raise their operating costs.

Oh, and while we are at it, lets raise individual taxes so they won't be able to buy as much. Great plan.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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They can only charge what the market will bear, but the the gov can redistribute monies where they are needed. Let corps hang on to cash and they sit on it at times, stagnating the economy.

Right and when you raise taxes on all business's then they all raise their prices and we all pay more for their products. Still don't see the shell game, huh?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Absolutely, we can trust corporations with our very lives. How do you explain corpoarte failures like Enron, Worldcom, United, etc............?

Any dumbass who had all their money in Enron or Worldcom deserves to be broke. You will not find any Financial Advisor who would recommend that type of idiotic investment strategy. Why do you see such a problem with allowing a greater tax ceiling which would allow people to bail out of a failing SS System? Unless you actually think the money is going to be there when you retire.

Don't you understand that what happened to Worldcom and Enron is going to happen to your SS?

[billvon 3,120]

>Amazing that some people think the way to stimulate business and
>keep people employed is to raise their operating costs.

That works for people too, right? The more credit cards you own, the more stimulated to buy you are, the better the economy gets . . .

That's an even better idea. Just give everyone a government credit card! Just add their charges to the national debt. The Bush Economic Plan scores another home run.

(The scary thing is that some people believe that.)

But seriously -

Cutting taxes is nice. But the way to cut taxes is to CUT THE FUCKING BUDGET. Taxes are not intended to incentivize or disincentivize businesses. They are to support the government. Want lower taxes? Make a smaller government. Want higher taxes? Have a few unneeded wars, open a few new government agencies, and vote a few pay raises in for Congress.

Driving the debt to ever-higher record numbers is a very very very bad idea, and is about as irresponsible as a man who spends as much as he can knowing he can always declare bankruptcy and have someone else pay his bills.

[StreetScooby 5]

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CUT THE FUCKING BUDGET

Suggestions?

We are all engines of karma

[billvon 3,120]

>Suggestions?

Easy. Fewer optional wars. Cut the Iraq war and you can immediately cut everyone's taxes by $1500 a year, average. (Or make up that amount of the deficit.)

Want to make this happen? Support a balanced-budget amendment. The reason the budget is in the mess it is now is that people are dumb, and believe politicians when they say they will cut taxes, give them free stuff and not run up the budget. By making it very clear that some new cool war is going to cost THEM, personally, $1500, a lot of people will turn from chickenhawks into doves overnight. People might not support that latest new bridge-to-nowhere if they realize that THEY will have to pay for it by next year at the latest. (Of course they will have to in the end no matter what, but by making it immediate they will think a lot harder about it.)

[Lucky... 0]

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>Hey, if I quit my jib my bills will go away using the other
>philosophy..... think I'll try it.

Well, that wouldn't work. But if you quit your job, start buying a lot of expensive stuff, and get a new credit card every month - you might just pull off a good living under the Bush Economic Plan.

Where do I sign up?

[Lucky... 0]

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Read up on your facts and get back to us.

Bahahaaha, that clears everything up

[skydyvr 0]

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Read up on your facts and get back to us.

Bahahaaha, that clears everything up

Lol, I get that a lot too.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Lucky... 0]

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If you'd read the CBO data I posted, you'd know that 2005 saw the U.S. gov't take in record revenues. If you were familiar with the budget, the debt, and the structure of either, you'd never make such a statement.

The CBO, Bureau of the Public Debt, and OMB all have superb online resources for you to learn about such things. I suggest you avail yourself of their use.

So if that's true, then explain how the deficit and debt are record highs? Too much spending? Tell me that social spending is so much higher and the prescription debacle falls under Bush's buddies payoffs, not a real social plan. The country was in a much better state of social well-being under Clinton, and at the same time the debt, deficit was paid down. Splain that, Lucy.