Human Shields

[debonair 0]

My opinion is that Hezbollah is using the local community around them as human shields. Every civilian who dies is an opportunity for Hezbollah to point fingers. I saw a report with Anderson Cooper this week showing how Hezbollah staged ambulance emergency calls as a publicity stunt. They are using multi tactics; attacking Israel literally but also in the media.

The fact is, Israel gave early warning that they were going to try to seriously wound Hezbollah and would target the location sources of the incoming rockets. They dropped pamphlets and forewarned civilians to get out of those areas. I think it is a terrible tragedy that innocent lives are being lost on both sides of the border.

I think its sickening that Hezbollah is orchestrating what's happening and knowingly substaining a war situation where their own countrymen, women and children are dying. I'm sure those deaths are written off as necessary losses and even seen as martyrdom. I imagine their leadership is gleefully rubbing their hands together as they watch like puppetmasters the havoc and destruction they are creating all around them. They are mixing it up over there and it seems they intend to play it out. To what end, who knows?

AZChallenger JFTC99/02 GOFAST300 STILLUV4WAY
"It's nothing 1000 jumps won't cure..."
- Jeff Gorlick, Seattle Sky Divers

[billvon 3,095]

> My opinion is that Hezbollah is using the local community around them as human shields.

I think you're right. Israel is doing that as well. Both are despicable acts.

>The fact is, Israel gave early warning that they were going to try
>to seriously wound Hezbollah and would target the location sources of the
>incoming rockets. They dropped pamphlets and forewarned civilians to get
>out of those areas.

Yes. And then when the people ran, they targeted their cars with helicopter gunships and took them out.

>I imagine their leadership is gleefully rubbing their hands together as
>they watch like puppetmasters the havoc and destruction they are creating
>all around them.

Yep. And I can just imagine the joy in the IDF when Israelis find a picture of a dead Israeli child they can put on TV to make their case for war.

Neither side is "doing the right thing." Both are at war, and will do whatever they can with whoever they can to win. The way to stop the carnage is not to support one side over the other, but rather to get BOTH sides to stop the attacks.

[akarunway 1]

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My opinion is that Hezbollah is using the local community around them as human shields. Every civilian who dies is an opportunity for Hezbollah to point fingers. I saw a report with Anderson Cooper this week showing how Hezbollah staged ambulance emergency calls as a publicity stunt. They are using multi tactics; attacking Israel literally but also in the media.

The fact is, Israel gave early warning that they were going to try to seriously wound Hezbollah and would target the location sources of the incoming rockets. They dropped pamphlets and forewarned civilians to get out of those areas. I think it is a terrible tragedy that innocent lives are being lost on both sides of the border.

I think its sickening that Hezbollah is orchestrating what's happening and knowingly substaining a war situation where their own countrymen, women and children are dying. I'm sure those deaths are written off as necessary losses and even seen as martyrdom. I imagine their leadership is gleefully rubbing their hands together as they watch like puppetmasters the havoc and destruction they are creating all around them. They are mixing it up over there and it seems they intend to play it out. To what end, who knows?

"They dropped pamphlets and forewarned civilians to get out of those areas." And then bombed the fuck outta the roads and everyone leaving

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[shropshire 0]

So, some foreign power (say Canada or Cuba!!) drops leaflets on you neighbourhood.... Do you....

(a) Up sticks and leave - they have a pefect right to expect me to leave my home

(b) Tell them to F**K Right Off and stay put. Just because there may be some naughty people in your street shouldn't get you killed, should it?


.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kelpdiver 2]

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(b) Tell them to F**K Right Off and stay put.

You'd really go for the choice of being DEAD right?

I don't believe you.

[shropshire 0]

Well that's what's happening. That's what happened in London during WW2 etc... etc.... etc..

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,095]

>You'd really go for the choice of being DEAD right?

You'd really turn tail and run away from your home? I suspect you might consider staying and fighting. It's why this is the United States of America instead of a British colony, after all.

[rushmc 23]

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My opinion is that Hezbollah is using the local community around them as human shields. Every civilian who dies is an opportunity for Hezbollah to point fingers. I saw a report with Anderson Cooper this week showing how Hezbollah staged ambulance emergency calls as a publicity stunt. They are using multi tactics; attacking Israel literally but also in the media.

The fact is, Israel gave early warning that they were going to try to seriously wound Hezbollah and would target the location sources of the incoming rockets. They dropped pamphlets and forewarned civilians to get out of those areas. I think it is a terrible tragedy that innocent lives are being lost on both sides of the border.

I think its sickening that Hezbollah is orchestrating what's happening and knowingly substaining a war situation where their own countrymen, women and children are dying. I'm sure those deaths are written off as necessary losses and even seen as martyrdom. I imagine their leadership is gleefully rubbing their hands together as they watch like puppetmasters the havoc and destruction they are creating all around them. They are mixing it up over there and it seems they intend to play it out. To what end, who knows?

I believe you are right on the money! Those that say Isreal and Hezbolla are similar are puposefully blinding themselves to the truth. But it is easy to see where they get thier views. Just watch ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, CNN ............

I love the phrase "proportional response". What a joke...........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Jib 0]

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Neither side is "doing the right thing." Both are at war, and will do whatever they can with whoever they can to win. The way to stop the carnage is not to support one side over the other, but rather to get BOTH sides to stop the attacks.

How do you propose to accomplish that? How should a terrorist-sympathizing, political party with an agenda be dealt with?

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[BillyVance 35]

And don't forget Hezbollah started this mess when they snuck across the border and attacked Israeli troops, killing 8 and kidnapping 2, three weeks or so ago. You know Israel refuses to be bullied around, and so this little war got underway.

Now the problem we have is, neither side will allow the other to get the last word, or missile in. It'll just keep going until one side is completely obliterated, and unfortunately, Lebanon is going to suffer as a result, but it's all Hezbollah's fault, and Iran and Syria's too.

FUCK HEZBOLLAH! They all can eat shit and die, and there won't be any virgins waiting for them in the afterlife either!

Remember the 1983 Marine Barracks bombing in Beruit that killed 241 +/- of our Marines? Hezbollah did it. I have rued the day ever since that I learned Caspar Weinberger, our Defense Secretary at the time, refused the opportunity to strike Hezbollah's base right where we could have wiped them out. Reagan was all for it at the time, but they were close friends and Ron didn't want to ruin the friendship.

Now, we cannot miss any more opportunities to strike back and eliminate all the radicals and terrorists that dare threaten us and Israel. As for the peace-keeping forces suggested for the region, United Nations be damned, they ain't worth a shit. Nato would do better.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[billvon 3,095]

>How should a terrorist-sympathizing, political party with an agenda be dealt with?

Same way we'd want to be dealt with back when _we_ were a terrorist-sympathizing, Islamic-radical-arming political party with an agenda of destruction. We wanted to wipe the USSR off the map, remember, and gave billions of dollars to crazed Middle Eastern Islamic terrorists so they could kill civilians.

Killing doesn't work; that's been proven over the last 40 years or so. Genocide might "work" in that there will be no one left to fight. I think we can all agree that's not an option. I'm starting to think that tearing down the wall is the one option that may work. Dissolve the borders; make it one country again.

[falxori 0]

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> My opinion is that Hezbollah is using the local community around them as human shields.

I think you're right. Israel is doing that as well. Both are despicable acts.

oh really? when exactly Israel has stored its guns inside houses?

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Yes. And then when the people ran, they targeted their cars with helicopter gunships and took them out.

I can't prove you wrong, but you are. asking people to leave (so they won't get hurt) and then targeting them on purpose seem logical to you?

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Yep. And I can just imagine the joy in the IDF when Israelis find a picture of a dead Israeli child they can put on TV to make their case for war.

if you say that it mean you have no understanding of the Israeli way of thinking.
there are enough of raw material from suicide bombings and rocket hits that is never published.
its simply not our way.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[billvon 3,095]

>when exactly Israel has stored its guns inside houses?

I don't know. What are you talking about? I'm talking about Israeli soldiers using children as human shields, not about where their arms are stored.

>I can't prove you wrong, but you are. asking people to leave (so they
>won't get hurt) and then targeting them on purpose seem logical to you?

If your goal is to hold the Palestinains accountable for the government they elected - yes. From an article by Noah Feldman:

-----------------------
For its part, Israel is gambling that the right strategy is to make the people who elected Hamas and a government that includes Hezbollah reckon the costs of their representatives' recklessness. That is why Israel has targeted not only Hezbollah leaders and strongholds but has also bombed infrastructure that sustains daily life for everybody in Lebanon. From Israel's standpoint, this is no longer a fight with nonstate terrorists who are holding their fellow citizens hostage to their tactics. It is, rather, war between Israel and countries that are pursuing (or tolerating) violent policies endorsed (or at least accepted) by their electorates.
-----------------------

[falxori 0]

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>when exactly Israel has stored its guns inside houses?

I don't know. What are you talking about? I'm talking about Israeli soldiers using children as human shields, not about where their arms are stored.

you said Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah do the same. and when exactly did you see an Israeli soldier hiding behinda child?

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If your goal is to hold the Palestinains accountable for the government they elected

sure they are accountable for the government they've elected, that still doesnt mean Israel targets them as part of the fighting

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[kallend 2,131]

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My opinion is that Hezbollah is using the local community around them as human shields. Every civilian who dies is an opportunity for Hezbollah to point fingers. I saw a report with Anderson Cooper this week showing how Hezbollah staged ambulance emergency calls as a publicity stunt. They are using multi tactics; attacking Israel literally but also in the media.

The fact is, Israel gave early warning that they were going to try to seriously wound Hezbollah and would target the location sources of the incoming rockets. They dropped pamphlets and forewarned civilians to get out of those areas. I think it is a terrible tragedy that innocent lives are being lost on both sides of the border.

I think its sickening that Hezbollah is orchestrating what's happening and knowingly substaining a war situation where their own countrymen, women and children are dying. I'm sure those deaths are written off as necessary losses and even seen as martyrdom. I imagine their leadership is gleefully rubbing their hands together as they watch like puppetmasters the havoc and destruction they are creating all around them. They are mixing it up over there and it seems they intend to play it out. To what end, who knows?

I believe you are right on the money! Those that say Isreal and Hezbolla are similar are puposefully blinding themselves to the truth. But it is easy to see where they get thier views. Just watch ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, CNN ............

I love the phrase "proportional response". What a joke...........

Declaring war on terrorists elevates them to the same status as a nation. Blame Bush. He should have treated them as criminal thugs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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My opinion is that Hezbollah is using the local community around them as human shields. Every civilian who dies is an opportunity for Hezbollah to point fingers. I saw a report with Anderson Cooper this week showing how Hezbollah staged ambulance emergency calls as a publicity stunt. They are using multi tactics; attacking Israel literally but also in the media.

The fact is, Israel gave early warning that they were going to try to seriously wound Hezbollah and would target the location sources of the incoming rockets. They dropped pamphlets and forewarned civilians to get out of those areas. I think it is a terrible tragedy that innocent lives are being lost on both sides of the border.

I think its sickening that Hezbollah is orchestrating what's happening and knowingly substaining a war situation where their own countrymen, women and children are dying. I'm sure those deaths are written off as necessary losses and even seen as martyrdom. I imagine their leadership is gleefully rubbing their hands together as they watch like puppetmasters the havoc and destruction they are creating all around them. They are mixing it up over there and it seems they intend to play it out. To what end, who knows?

I believe you are right on the money! Those that say Isreal and Hezbolla are similar are puposefully blinding themselves to the truth. But it is easy to see where they get thier views. Just watch ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, CNN ............

I love the phrase "proportional response". What a joke...........

Declaring war on terrorists elevates them to the same status as a nation. Blame Bush. He should have treated them as criminal thugs.

Hezbolla is the token army of Iran so we should congratulate him for be that smart!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,095]

>that still doesnt mean Israel targets them as part of the fighting . . .

They are currently targeting civilians (and non-combatants like UN observers.) As someone else said, that may be accidental. You asked if there was any other logical reason that they might target civilians - and apparently there _is_ a reason that at least some people find logical.

>and when exactly did you see an Israeli soldier hiding behinda child?

-------------------------------------------------
Israelis accused of 'human shields' tactic
BBC News, Gaza

The Israeli army has been accused of using Palestinian civilians as human shields in an operation in northern Gaza.

According to the Israeli human rights group, B'tselem, six civilians including two minors were subjected to the illegal tactic during an incursion into the town of Beit Hanoun last week. . . .

It was his mother who met them in the hallway, Israeli soldiers in a Palestinian home. Behind her, Hazem and his two brothers emerged, one by one.

The three brothers were blindfolded, says Hazem, and their hands tied behind their backs. He shows me the wounds on his wrists from the plastic handcuffs - still sore and infected, but beginning to heal over.

He shows me where the soldiers positioned them: outside the entrance to his flat on the third floor, in the stairwell, facing down the steps.

"I think they put us here because they were expecting suiciders to come into the flat because none of the soldiers were on the stairs - they were all inside the flat. They put us here so we'll be shot first."

Inside the flat, the soldiers punched holes in the walls of his living room, and bedroom. Through them, snipers exchanged fire with Palestinian militants. Hazem and his brothers heard it all, but could see nothing.
----------------------------

[falxori 0]

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You asked if there was any other logical reason that they might target civilians - and apparently there _is_ a reason that at least some people find logical.

I asked if there was logic is telling people to leave only to target them in their cars.
and logic is subjective. I'm telling you that by Israeli logic it is not logical.

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Israelis accused of 'human shields' tactic

quoting this a lot lately, aren't you?
you take one accusation, not even knowing if its true or false and make it into an official war policy?
if (and i mean a big IF) this incident happened as described, it is a serious violation of military rules and those involved would have been kicked out of their units and thrown to jail.
do you have the rest of this report? something like the Israeli response or what happened next?

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[billvon 3,095]

>you take one accusation, not even knowing if its true or false and
>make it into an official war policy?

?? I have no idea if it's "official war policy." Only that it happened, per an Israeli rights-watch group. (I would assume you will not label them Hezbollah supporters.)

[falxori 0]

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?? I have no idea if it's "official war policy." Only that it happened, per an Israeli rights-watch group. (I would assume you will not label them Hezbollah supporters.)

that's exactly what you did when you said "both sides use civilians". if what you've quoted really happened than it was a criminal act and was dealt with accordingly.
it is very different from waging your entire war dressed as a civilian, from a civilian home and behind civilians hoping they'll get hurt.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Darius11 12]

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that's exactly what you did when you said "both sides use civilians". if what you've quoted really happened than it was a criminal act and was dealt with accordingly.

How do you know they were dealt with? And dealt with accordingly? You just guessing because you view that the Israelis don’t ever do anything wrong i guess ha?

You seem to be under the impression that Israeli is a humane nation, unfortunately all the evidence from many different sources say otherwise.

Thank god for the Internet now people can see how the Israelis treat people who are of Arab decent and maybe understand why there is so much hate towards the Israelis in the first place.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[falxori 0]

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How do you know they were dealt with? And dealt with accordingly? You just guessing because you view that the Israelis don’t ever do anything wrong i guess ha?

as i said , i don't know anything about this incident beside a report of accusation and nothing more.
i'm saying that if it happened, it was dealt with because in other occassions where soldiers acted illegaly, they were prosecuted.

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You seem to be under the impression that Israeli is a humane nation,

Yes i am. i'm a proud part of this nation and I know it and its values better than you ever will.

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unfortunately all the evidence from many different sources say otherwise.

you mean the part of the evidence that you chose to look at while ignoring everything else?

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Richards 0]

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I think you're right. Israel is doing that as well. Both are despicable acts.

Where has Isreal used human shields?

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Yes. And then when the people ran, they targeted their cars with helicopter gunships and took them out.

Until there has been an inquest into the conduct of Isreal should we not refrain from declaring Isreal guilty of having deliberately targetted civilians? We do not know for sure that it was intentional.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[rushmc 23]

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I think you're right. Israel is doing that as well. Both are despicable acts.

Where has Isreal used human shields?

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Yes. And then when the people ran, they targeted their cars with helicopter gunships and took them out.

Until there has been an inquest into the conduct of Isreal should we not refrain from declaring Isreal guilty of having deliberately targetted civilians? We do not know for sure that it was intentional.

Richards

Those on the left must do this to rationalize thier positions.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Until there has been an inquest into the conduct of Isreal should we not refrain from declaring Isreal guilty of having deliberately targetted civilians? We do not know for sure that it was intentional.

Why would we want to do that? This is SC, here is is cool to say stuff like: KILL THEM ALL and FUCKINGH TOWELHEADS, or all muslims are terrorists or any statements along those lines. Might as well do the same to Israelis....