Andrea Yates...........

[billvon 3,132]

>a rabid dog would be put down.

Most people consider women to be a step or two above dogs, and apply different standards to them.

[D22369 0]

Most people consider women to be a step or two above dogs, and apply different standards to them.
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not once they murder a child or children.


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[jakee 1,610]

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NO SANE MOTHER WOULD KILL HER KIDS!

I think blanket statements like that only advance the cause of people who would have actual insane people executed. After hearing over and over again that 'She must have been insane because no sane person would ever do that' the mind tends to gloss over and dismiss actual evidence of insanity.

Never underestimate the capacity for evil in perfectly sane people. Mothers kill their children everyday.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Michele 1]

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Mothers kill their children everyday.

Yes, you're completely correct; Diane Downs, Susan Smith, Darlie Routier for example. They killed their children, and were not insane.

However, none of the above women had a history or mental illness the way Andrea does. Andrea had been treated with some of the strongest psychological pharmaceuticals available, and often didn't respond. Her history included a dr. who recommended that she not bear any additional children, for pete's sake.

This woman was insane, and is still not solidly in reality. She deserves treatment and understanding, as far as humanly possible, of the medical situation she finds herself in.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[rwieder 0]

I intentionally stayed away from this thread after i created it, simply because i assumed i couldn't believe my eyes and ears at some of the responses. (Son-Of-A-Bitch if i wasn't right) I making observations here, that more females than males are taking exception to the rule of "Insanity" makes the crime against nature simply "one of thos things"

I'm sorry, "murder is murder." Simple and pure. For those of you that are proponents of Andrea Yates, good for you. For those of you who are not, let God deal with her.

But, at what point do we live by some standards? Say, oh, i don't know biblical standards? "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth?"

"Suffer the little children to come unto me" (Jesus)

"It would be better for a man to hang a millstone around his kneck and drown himself in the depths of the lake, rather than to misslead or destroy a child against my will" (Jesus) God's Son, for those of you who don't know.

I am adamant that the woman who committed these crimes against these children should face the wrath of God. As i am sure he has plans to deal with her himself.

No matter what anyone here thinks, she will face the wrath of God, when she dies, which is inevitable.

Let no man be a fool, "God Is Not Mocked"

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Mothers kill their children everyday.

Spare Me, In the name of Jesus!

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[Michele 1]

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I am adamant that the woman who committed these crimes against these children should face the wrath of God. A s i am sure he has plans to deal with her himself.

No matter what anyone here thinks, she will face the wrath of God, when she dies, which is inevitable.

She will face God, don't worry on that account. In the mean time, however, her medical condition will be treated, and she will also live with the guilt of killing her children.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[rwieder 0]

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I hope for your sake that you never become mentally ill and then have to deal with people like rwieder.

That was a personal attack "Kallend" And you know it. That said, both of us being degreed professionals, i'm not going to stoop to your level. O.K. Maybe not to such a degree as you did (Which was unwarrented) to a degree.

I will simply say "**** You" And i hope you never become mentally ill either. Not that you could diagnosis it, because your a physics proffessor....Right?

Thanks Mods, for picking this up. I really appreciate the help with this asshole, but no worries, i can handle the incorrigible bastard myself. If given the opportunity, which i'm quite sure will not be afforded to me, none the less he deserves the admonition. Fucking asshole. RE: Kallend

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[billvon 3,132]

> For those of you that are proponents of Andrea Yates, good for you.
>For those of you who are not, let God deal with her.

I have yet to see anyone here who is a "proponent" of Andrea Yates. I think she should be institutionalized for the rest of her life, such that someone can watch her 24/7 so this won't happen again.

>No matter what anyone here thinks, she will face the wrath of
>God, when she dies, which is inevitable.

Yep. Of course, going along those lines, God made her what she is and gave her that condition as well.

[rwieder 0]

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Yep. Of course, going along those lines, God made her what she is and gave her that condition as well.

Your a published writer, i'm not. I'm merely a "voice" on "HH's" WebSite. I completely dissagree with you here, God gave man & Woman a "Free Will" It's a published historical biblical fact. She did what she did, she will face the inevitable wrath of her creator, no doubt about it.

My wife and i 4 children, married over 29 years, no drowned children yet, coincidence? I think not. I'm sure you'll agrere?

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[Michele 1]

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My wife and i 4 children, married over 29 years, no drowned children yet, coincidence? I think not. I'm sure you'll agrre?

It's good that you have never experienced - either first hand or someone you love - mental illness. It's good. It's kinda sad, too, because you might have acquired more compassion, but it's good that you don't know.

I hope it stays that you never experience mental illness. And I hope God understands your rage and vitriol too. I'm sure He will...but I sure don't.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Richards 0]

Hard for me to have a solid view as I am not a lawyer or a psychiatrist and therefore unqualified to give an informed statement..however this is speakers corner so;


She was either capable of recognizing right from wrong or she wasn't.

If she was capable then her lawyer has pulled a fast one and she escaped justice which in light of the crime would mean she should have been buried alive.

If she was truly incapable of controlling her actions then as angry as her crime makes me I will trust in the judgement of those who are more familiar with the facts than me who decided to put her in an institution.


Either way the whole thing was fucking depressing.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[skydyvr 0]

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. . . both of us being degreed professionals,

Good thing you mentioned that -- in your case, most here probably would've figured it out without help.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Jaden 0]

She killed her own babies. She gave painful birth to them & spent years raising them. This is completely unforgivable in my eyes. We all make mistakes, but how do you fuck up like that? No, there is no justifying this evil. She will pay. We should not have to support insanity with our taxes. Some people just do not deserve a second chance. There is a line, it has been crossed. Her behavior was absolutely un-acceptable. Sane or not she fully deserves any repercussion that she receives.

[rwieder 0]

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. . . both of us being degreed professionals,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Good thing you mentioned that -- in your case, most here probably would've figured it out without help.

Not worthy of response.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[skydyvr 0]

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Not worthy of response.

Then why did you provide one?

. . =(_8^(1)

[rwieder 0]

Are you a world traveler? If so, where have you been? If you are not in fact a world traveler, then be quite. You have no first hand knowledge of other cultures besides the one you've been raised in.

Get out more, airline rates are down!

Name the leader's of the 6 world major countries powers other than that of the USA, if you can't, again, please be quite. 5 Minute time limit here as well.

Rheotoric gets under my skin.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[Michele 1]

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She killed her own babies. She gave painful birth to them & spent years raising them. This is completely unforgivable in my eyes. We all make mistakes, but how do you fuck up like that? No, there is no justifying this evil. She will pay. We should not have to support insanity with our taxes. Some people just do not deserve a second chance. There is a line, it was crossed.

Interesting. If I read you correctly, you agree that she was insane, but that doesn't matter because we shouldn't pay for the treatment (assuming you mean w/ taxes)?

Just curious if I've read you correctly.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[skydyvr 0]

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Thanks Mods, for picking this up. I really appreciate the help with this asshole, but no worries, i can handle the incorrigible bastard myself. If given the opportunity, which i'm quite sure will not be afforded to me, none the less he deserves the admonition. Fucking asshole. RE: Kallend

Oh, I'm sure the Mods will pick this right up.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Michele 1]

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Are you a world traveler? If so, where have you been? If you are not in fact a world traveler, then be quite. You have no first hand knowledge of other cultures besides the one you've been raised in.

Get out more, airline rates are down!

Name the leader's of the 6 world major countries powers other than that of the USA, if you can't, again, please be quite. 5 Minute time limit here as well.

Whooooooooooaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

Major thread creep...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[skydyvr 0]

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Are you a world traveler?

Yes. What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

. . =(_8^(1)

[rwieder 0]

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Whooooooooooaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

I'll post my passport against yours anyday.

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"Say When"

Thread Creep? At least i'm not an antogonist. *Ouch*

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[Jaden 0]

Maybe she is insane. Do you honestly believe that her insanity justifies our spending tax/healthcare dollars on her psychiatric care, food, medications & housing after she murdered her own children? This seems like a waste of money & effort to me. Most people are worth the effort, some are not. What is the purpose in keeping her in therapy? She has already proven that she is incapable of combating her irrational thoughts. Regardless, she did, in fact, drown five innocent babies that she actually gave birth to. Is this justifiable? I just can not see the compassion.

[Michele 1]

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Thread Creep? At leat i'm not an antogonist. *Ouch*

Didja hurt yourself? Poor rweider. Antagonist? Who, me? For having opinions and stating them? Wow. I suppose I could call you the same.

BTW, this isn't about passports and/or world travel. It's about Andrea Yates. Remember? Or are you just spamming?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Michele 1]

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Maybe she is insane. Do you honestly believe that her insanity justifies our spending tax/healthcare dollars on her psychiatric care, food, medications & housing after she murdered her own children? This seems like a waste of money & effort to me.

You're right - it would've been better spent had she not run out of insurance, been ousted from the hospital, and left on her own; and when that did happen, she should have availed herself of state assistance.

Problem is, when someone is out of touch with reality to that extent, they are not capable of taking care of themselves, let alone 5 little children (one an infant...), and let alone again homeschooling them.

It's my humble (or not so humble) opinion that Rusty Yates has responsibility here, morally if not legally. But I've been the one watching someone struggle for their mental health, and it's not easy to spot how bad they can get, and how fast. And I know what I'm looking for, too.

I wish this story had a good ending. But there isn't one, you know? Just healing for everyone, including Andrea.

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Most people are worth the effort, some are not. What is the purpose in keeping her in therapy?

With a treatable clinical medically controlled illness, I don't see why she falls into the catagory of not worth the effort. I think she is; I also think there are lots out there that are, and are not given the effort.

Don't you think that prevention would be worth it? What if she can be studied, and more understanding can be gained to prevent someone else from going down this path? To learn more about the illness so that it can be treated more effectively in the future? More cognitive and behavioural techniques might be gained, thus serving an entire group of people as a result of her treatment and care. That possibility we afford to people like Gacy, Wuornos and Bundy - why can't we afford it to her, as well?

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She has already proven that she is incapable of combating her irrational thoughts.

Unmedicated, yes. But medicated? With the correct dose and the right combination? She combats them pretty well. That's the interesting point here. With medical intervention, this is preventable...and survivable. Without it, it kills.

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Regardless, she did, in fact, drown five innocent babies that she actually gave birth to. Is this justifiable? I just can not see the compassion.

It's not justifiable in situations like Diane Downs, Susan Smith, Darlie Routier. Not justifiable, nor excusable, or even anything other than evil, sociopathic behaviors.

But that's not this case. Andrea Yates has a history of mental illness, and had several psychotic breaks prior to this. The crime, imho, is that the people around her weren't able to assess accurately and remove her from the situation prior to the killing of her children.

Save a wee bit of compassion for a very sick woman. Have more compassion for those beautiful babies that were murdered, but put just a sliver aside for Andrea, too...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[rwieder 0]

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She's lucid now (and I'd disagree somewhat on "lucid", however), but that's because she's had years of medical intervention behind her. How she looks and behaves now does not have any bearing on what was happening to her at the time of the crimes 5 years ago.

What proof have you? Tabloids? Cut me some slack, major slack.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"