Darius11 12 #101 July 27, 2006 Hold on.................here is a tissue. I know i get soft and touchy a lot myself.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #102 July 27, 2006 QuoteHold on.................here is a tissue. I know i get soft and touchy a lot myself. Can we all have a group hug in cyber space R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #103 July 27, 2006 Here is what I have an Issue with. Men and woman are equals in this society how can she use the excuse (reason) that her husband told her to do something and she did? I just find it very hypocritical to understand that we are all equals but at the same time woman often use the Poor helpless female angle when it is convenient. If she had no financial ability she should have gotten a job. If she did not have transpiration she should have taking the bus or found a way. The thing is we can make excuses for anyone in any satiation. People rob banks often to put food on the table does that mean we should set them free? I do agree with you that a sudden stop of her medication would result in extreem behavior, but I do not agree that she should not be held responsible for not taking her own medication. She was an adult and her belief or her religion should not excuse her from receiving proper punishment. If I worship Satan and my religions tell me I need to sacrifice a virgin and I truly believe it that would not excuse me from being punished accordingly would it?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #104 July 27, 2006 come here slug ((((((((((((((((SLUG)))))))))))))))))) just don't suck my bloodI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #105 July 27, 2006 Quotecome here slug ((((((((((((((((SLUG)))))))))))))))))) just don't suck my blood No sweat.Leaches suck blood. Slugs just eat plants and leave a wet spot wherever they go. Please put the salt shaker down R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #106 July 27, 2006 QuoteThat sounds more like vengeance than punishment. What purpose would it serve? Serving life in prision for her murders is punishment. What happens if she gets out of the mental hospital and someone else tells her to stop her meds and she kills more children? Vengence would be me saying I hope she dies at the hands of someone else and that I hope its by drowning. Since my brothers murder I do not believe in vengence or the death penalty, I believe in accountibility and punishment that will protect our society from having to deal with what said person is capable of. We know Andrea Yates is capable of murder because she has done it already. If people have to relay on medicine to not be murderers should they be allowed to be in general population ? She has freewill when not confined and therefore could stop taking the medication that protects our children from her.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #107 July 27, 2006 Quote If I worship Satan and my religions tell me I need to sacrifice a virgin and I truly believe it that would not excuse me from being punished accordingly would it? Comparing your CHOSEN religion with a mental disorder -- while some would argue these to be congruent -- is, in fact, totally off-base. Her DOCTOR took her off her meds. Her husband may have supported that decision, but her DOCTOR is the one that stopped treatment. And yes, men and women ARE equal under the LAW. That does NOT mean they are equal within some marriages. In addition, I have yet to see anyone here say she should be set free. Did I miss that?Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goofyjumper 0 #108 July 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteThat sounds more like vengeance than punishment. What purpose would it serve? Serving life in prision for her murders is punishment. What happens if she gets out of the mental hospital and someone else tells her to stop her meds and she kills more children? Lisa, they are not going to let her out of a hospital! We always say that "what if" they let the mental loose. I am sure they are well aware now that she is not fit for society.----------------- I love and Miss you so much Honey! Orfun #3 ~ Darla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #109 July 27, 2006 QuoteIt's a published historical biblical fact Noice!Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #110 July 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt's a published historical biblical fact Noice! I was quite tempted to put that in my sig line, but there is only so much room. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #111 July 27, 2006 Quote Andrea's religion told her to trust Rusty to make the important decisions and to take care of her, and Rusty accepted that responsibility. Excellent observation.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #112 July 27, 2006 Quote It's a published historical biblical fact I need a new sig line. Maybe I'll use it We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #113 July 27, 2006 You have not been following my conversation. Nightingale said that because of her religion beliefs she did what her husband told her, and I was saying your religious beliefs should not be used as an excuse when it comes to the murder of five kids.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #114 July 27, 2006 QuoteYou have not been following my conversation. Nightingale said that because of her religion beliefs she did what her husband told her, and I was saying your religious beliefs should not be used as an excuse when it comes to the murder of five kids. Oh I HAVE been following along. And Nightingale said that her husband was an influence to get her off meds. At no point did she say it was an "excuse" for murder. It just so happens that getting off the meds induced her psychosis. Does that excuse it? No, but it certainly is a reason for it. The verdict was that she was insane..not that she was religious. Unfortunately, the fact that she was submissive to her husband DUE to religion may have been a factor in her becoming psychotic.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #115 July 27, 2006 What they need is a "GUILTY" and "INSANE" verdict, IMO. Just make sure she gets her meds in jail and a counselor comes to see her every week. As someone mentioned, she STILL killed her kids, and apparently the defense would have us believe that the only thing that could have stopped her was her meds. If someone MUST be on meds to not kill someone.... they need to stay locked up forever. On a side note... I noticed that she'd been found "nuts and not guilty" only on 3 counts of murder. Does that mean that if this murderer ever gets "cured" she'll be immediately charged with the remaining 2 counts?Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #116 July 27, 2006 Not guilty by reason of insanity really is a plea of "guilty" but with the mitigating circumstance of insanity. You cannot plead insanity without first admitting that you did it, because an insanity plea says "yes, I did it, but I was crazy at the time." That's one of the major reasons that an insanity defense is not used nearly as often as the public believes. Admitting that you committed a crime, and then asking a jury to excuse you because you were nuts is a really big risk. The public is very sceptical of insanity defenses (as evidenced in this thread), and Andrea Yates took a huge risk by admitting that she did commit the crime and then relying on twelve people to believe her doctors instead of the prosecution's doctors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #117 July 27, 2006 QuoteAndrea Yates took a huge risk by admitting that she did commit the crime and then relying on twelve people to believe her doctors instead of the prosecution's doctors. Or... she knew there was no way that she'd be able to get out of a guilty verdict and insanity was the only way out. But that's usually when the insanity plea seems to be used. Kinda "I'm fucked, but it's not REALLY my fault!" My question to the lawyer types... why not convict as "guilty" if indeed the crime was committed by the accused (crime meaning, non self-defense, good samaritan, etc etc), then take all the whining about mental states and other excuses to the punishment phase where they could be sentenced to psychiatric care prior to life in prison or whatever? I think it might go a long way to satisfying those that see here as "getting off" with the insanity excuse.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,574 #118 July 27, 2006 Because if the brain that committed the crime was not a sane one, the law says they're not responsible. If someone has a non-fatal heart attack while driving and kills some pedestrians, are the guilty of negligent manslaughter? They're guilty of something, but intent makes a difference, and if you're unable to formulate rational intent, then it should be taken into account. It's why we don't give (most) children the death penalty for murder, even when it seems appropriate. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #119 July 27, 2006 It would be nice to think that people are reasonable enough to see the difference between a heart attack causing a fatal accident and an insane woman methodically killing her children... but I guess that's too much to ask. I'm not saying children should be given the death penalty, but children who murder should be convicted of murder, then sentenced appropriately. But I know, the law works in mysterious ways... right and wrong be damned.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #120 July 27, 2006 Quote But I know, the law works in mysterious ways... right and wrong be damned. That is why we NEED more lawyers. Probably why I know 8,000,000 law students or future law students. Because it is so damn mysterious. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,574 #121 July 27, 2006 QuoteIt would be nice to think that people are reasonable enough to see the difference between a heart attack causing a fatal accident and an insane woman methodically killing her children... There's a huge difference. The guy never gets charged in the first place, and the woman is charged, and goes through a trial etc. Same if it's a guy. However -- they are not capable at the time of the crime. If the heart attack victim continues to drive, are they being negligent? If the psychotic break was due to a major reaction to a drug, does that count? How about if a tumor is found? People are weird and complex. I don't think that Andrea Yates belongs in the real world right now. But are you out for punishment, blood, or the protection of society? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #122 July 27, 2006 I'm proud to say that ALL of my friends who've gone to law school have avoided practicing law in the traditional sense. Mysterious and lucrative....Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #123 July 27, 2006 QuoteHowever -- they are not capable at the time of the crime. They're capable of murder. That's clear. QuoteIf the heart attack victim continues to drive, are they being negligent? I'd think that someone having a heart attack and running over the sidewalks would try to stop if they were capable. Otherwise, I'd think they'd stop hoping for help. Having a heart attack while driving is an accident. Continuing to drive while impaired is negligent. QuoteIf the psychotic break was due to a major reaction to a drug, does that count? How about if a tumor is found? Then you could either convict them or not. If convicted, take it into account in the punishment phase. The fact remains that they killed someone. QuoteI don't think that Andrea Yates belongs in the real world right now. But are you out for punishment, blood, or the protection of society? I don't think she EVER belongs in society again. I don't want her dead, I think punishment is fair, and I think the chances that she'd flip again if not medicated are too great to NOT keep her locked up... behind bars or in a padded cell.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 379 #124 July 27, 2006 A number of people I know who are very religious don't seem to believe in mental illness at all. They just can't accept that conciousness and personality are the product of chemical reactions in an increadibly complex physical structure, the brain. Rather they attribute personality to a mysterious spiritual entity (the "soul") that just happens to be temporarily attached to the body. In this view people can be good or evil, but diseased isn't an option. I get the impression that several posters in this thread have this point of view. Sorry to break it to you folks, but every one of us is capable of doing anything (even murder) if our brain chemistry gets sufficiently out of whack. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #125 July 27, 2006 Quote Sorry to break it to you folks, but every one of us is capable of doing anything (even murder) if our brain chemistry gets sufficiently out of whack. I was raised in a fundamentalist christian church in the deep south. I have seen people believe strange things. Some of it, you simply can't make up.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
