Gawain 0
billvon 3,099
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
> but if a down-syndrome individual willfully killed an individual, then a
>trial and appropriate action thereafter would be warranted.
I agree - but "appropriate action" for someone who is not responsible for their own actions is institutionalization and/or 24/7 care, not a prison sentence.
>trial and appropriate action thereafter would be warranted.
I agree - but "appropriate action" for someone who is not responsible for their own actions is institutionalization and/or 24/7 care, not a prison sentence.
Zenister 0
QuoteQuoteNo she did not. You are just speaking out of anger!
I beg to differ. 100 years ago justice would have been swift and insanity would never have been brought up. She would have been sent to the gallows straight away. Dumb, Stupid or slow, murder is murder and should be paid for in kind.
you have some serious issues with the difference between "Justice" and "Revenge"
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
Quote
What was really sad was the woman movement who came to her defense by sighting depression, ok she was depressed I am feeling kind of down this week who can I kill?
If she was so insane why was she not put in a mental hospital before she killed her kids one by one. Let me guess she all of a sudden went over the edge.
To give you some idea of where I'm coming from with this, I'm working for a criminal prosecution office. It's the job of my office, and my job to help, to put criminals in jail.
That said...
First off, Andrea Yates had Post Partum PSYCHOSIS, not Post Partum Depression. There is a massive difference between the two.
With PPP, you are insane. "Postpartum psychosis is a form of depression so severe that the patient loses touch with reality. Although only about 1 in 500 women will get postpartum psychosis, there is a sevenfold increase in the risk of psychiatric hospitalization within the first three months after delivery, and the risk of psychosis is 20 times higher than the pre-pregnancy rate.
When delusions or hallucinations are present, they often involve the infant. A woman may have thoughts that the baby is possessed by a demon and should die. She may even hear voices (auditory hallucinations) telling her to kill her infant. This is an emergency situation, and in such cases a new mother should be taken to the hospital immediately."-healthybaby.com
Andrea Yates had a long history of mental illness and had a history of post-partum depression, which made her much more likely to get PPP. She twice attempted suicide, had been hospitalized four times for psychiatric care and nursed a psychosis before the drownings that was clearly documented in thousands of pages of medical records. -time.com
Someone with PPP who is off their meds is as dangerous, if not more so, than a paranoid schizophrenic off meds. They have no idea what's real and what isn't, delusions come on strongly and suddenly, and there is an incredible compulsion to act on those delusions. The delusions are almost always centered around the child or children.
Andrea Yates was classic PPP. She is the kind of person that an insanity defense is made for. To be "not guilty by reason of insanity", "at the time of the committing of the act, the party accused must be labouring under such a defect of reason, arising from a disease of the mind, as not to know the nature and quality of the act he was doing, or, if he did know it, that he did not know what he was doing was wrong." -M'Naghten
This defense is based on a principle that punishment is only reasonable if the defendant is capable of distinguishing right and wrong and has some idea of what they're doing. In most jurisdictions, a jury must find that the defendant was in an "active state of psychosis" to accept an insanity defense. By all accounts, Andrea Yates was completely nuts and was given an anti-psychotic cocktail after her arrest.
Defendants found not guilty by reason of insanity are generally placed in a mental institution. Unlike defendants who are found guilty of a crime, they are not institutionalized for a fixed period, but rather they are held within the institution until authorities determine that they are no longer a threat. Authorities making this decision tend to be cautious; as a result, defendants can often spend more time there than they would have in prison (had they been convicted). -wikipedia
Insanity defenses are successful less than 1% of the time. It's not easy to convince a jury that you were so nuts that you didn't know what you were doing, or that it was wrong. It's obviously not easy to convince you either, Darius. However, you were not in the courtroom, you do not have access to the evidence that the jury did, and you do not have the understanding of PPP that the experts gave the jury. Andrea Yates didn't just have to convince one person. She had to convince all twelve. Every single juror had to agree that this woman was nuts. Look at the breakdown of this thread... we've got a pretty good mix of society here. How difficult do you think it would be to get twelve people to agree to find someone who killed five kids "not guilty"??
I applaud the jury in this case. Their decision wasn't easy, but I feel it was the only choice that truly meant justice rather than vengeance.
Michele 1
QuoteI have to disagree with you, I think that regardless of your condition you are always responsible for your actions. Drunk, Sober, Lucid, or not. you have to be held accountable for your actions. To say that an adult shouldn't be is ridiculous. Thats part of being an adult and certainly part of being a parent.
I agree - if you are sane, whatever choices you make you must be responsible for. End of discussion.
However...we are dealing with mental illness. A disease that is as real - and as lethal - as cancer. A disease which isn't about responsibility nor choice. It's a disease which strikes the brain, specifically one's ability to think "normally" and which changes reality. It's like living in a Stephen King novel - and it's real.
Sometimes, when you are hearing voices, you really do hear them. Sometimes, when you're on medication, you really do need it. Sometimes, when you come off those medications, the lethality of your illness is greater than it was before.
Post partum psychosis is real. It's psychotic behavior. Psychotic behavior includes, sometimes, behavior which is not understandable from someone who has not experienced a psychotic break.
It really, really sucks that 5 children are dead. It sucks so fucking much that the insurance "ran out" and that her husband didn't understand - or pay attention to - the illness which affected his wife and threatened the children. It sucks so fucking much that Andrea had an illness which allowed a different reality to prevail...5 children are dead. Killed in a horrific manner, and in a way I would wish on not one person.
And Andrea was - and remains - a critically ill woman. Thank God a jury had enough sense to understand that mental illness is real. Thank God a jury found her NGRI...and that she will spend either the rest of her life or at least most of it in a fine mental facility such as Rusk in east Texas. Thank God...this tragedy could've been avoided - with proper medical care and understanding of the illness from her husband and friends...and a little commitment from them to Andrea.
And it just sucks. There is no happy ending here...none at all. But it's the best ending possible given the circumstances, and for that, I say again "Thank God!".
Ciels-
Michele
~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~
D22369 0
a rabid dog would be put down.
she is no different. Kill the bitch.
Roy
she is no different. Kill the bitch.
Roy
They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.
No, but if a down-syndrome individual willfully killed an individual, then a trial and appropriate action thereafter would be warranted.
Yates was hardly an "accident". It wasn't a car wreck.
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites