StreetScooby 5 #51 July 11, 2006 Quote I also dealt with the Taliban and understand exactly who they are. Can you share some stuff with us, please?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #52 July 11, 2006 Quote I think it's reasonable to differentiate between our invasion of Afghanistan and our invasion of Iraq. I've already stated that I don't think we're going about this the right way, but then again, I don't know all other factors involved in the decision. What is clear to me is this is a culture clash, and needs to be taken as such.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #53 July 11, 2006 Quote Just using one example. Google Dilawar. A few more if you feel like looking them up: Bader Zaman Abu Bakkir Qassim Jamal al-Harith Hope this doesn't sound insensitive, but this is classic 2nd law of thermo stuff, applied at a war level.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #54 July 11, 2006 >Our country was attacked. 3000 moms and dads lost their lives in >OUR country for going to work one day. Why? Because some Islamic > Radical managed to galvanize other Islamic Radicals to kill our > citizens. I agree 100%. The problem is that I fear that you have forgotten WHO attacked us. (Hint - it was not Saddam Hussein.) >The way you phrased that sentence somehow left out the very > important fact of Sept. 11. Never forget that date. You have already forgotten who did this to us, and bought into the "Iraq pulled off 9/11" line. I won't forget that it was Osama Bin Laden's terrorist organization, Al Quaeda, who killed 3000 americans. I wish more people would remember that. As long as we keep forgetting, we will be at risk. >We, as a country, really need to wake up and realize we're not > dealing with a culture that's like ours. We need to change their > ways, or they're going to change our ways. They already have. They have gotten us to rescind some basic protections the constitution offers - which is part of their goal. After 9/11 we should have: 1) beefed up our security 2) enlisted the world's help in hunting down and eliminating Al Qaeda 3) gone into Afghanistan, rooted out the Taliban and eliminated them 4) rebuilt and gone on with our lives, to prove that we will not let terrorism change who we are. Instead we attacked Iraq, which had almost nothing to do with 9/11. (Heck, Pat Robertson helped Al Qaeda more than Saddam Hussein did.) And today, much of the world sees us as a pariah, and could care less if we're attacked again. Today, the Taliban is making a resurgence in Afghanistan. Today there are 2500 US soldiers dead in Iraq. Today Al Qaeda has reorganized and has a new base of operations and recruitment (Iraq.) Today we let our government erode the protections of the constitution because we are scared. We have already forgotten the lessons of 9/11 - if we ever learned them in the first place, that is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #55 July 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn Afghanistan the "insurgents" were Taliban, which was the de-facto legitimate government at the time of our invasion, and signatory to the Geneva Conventions. I served in Afghanistan 02-03. We captured, interrogated, and sent off plenty who weren't Taliban and who were from many other countries. They traveled to Afghanistan for Jihad. I also dealt with the Taliban and understand exactly who they are. I seem to recall that a number of Americans traveled to Britain in 1940 to fight against the Nazis. We celebrate their contributions. How is that different?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #56 July 11, 2006 Quote I seem to recall that a number of Americans traveled to Britain in 1940 to fight against the Nazis. We celebrate their contributions. How is that different? What's your point, Kallend? If we all thought this way, we'd be speaking German.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #57 July 11, 2006 Quote >Our country was attacked. 3000 moms and dads lost their lives in >OUR country for going to work one day. Why? Because some Islamic > Radical managed to galvanize other Islamic Radicals to kill our > citizens. I agree 100%. The problem is that I fear that you have forgotten WHO attacked us. (Hint - it was not Saddam Hussein.) >The way you phrased that sentence somehow left out the very > important fact of Sept. 11. Never forget that date. You have already forgotten who did this to us, and bought into the "Iraq pulled off 9/11" line. I won't forget that it was Osama Bin Laden's terrorist organization, Al Quaeda, who killed 3000 americans. I wish more people would remember that. As long as we keep forgetting, we will be at risk. >We, as a country, really need to wake up and realize we're not > dealing with a culture that's like ours. We need to change their > ways, or they're going to change our ways. They already have. They have gotten us to rescind some basic protections the constitution offers - which is part of their goal. After 9/11 we should have: 1) beefed up our security 2) enlisted the world's help in hunting down and eliminating Al Qaeda 3) gone into Afghanistan, rooted out the Taliban and eliminated them 4) rebuilt and gone on with our lives, to prove that we will not let terrorism change who we are. Instead we attacked Iraq, which had almost nothing to do with 9/11. (Heck, Pat Robertson helped Al Qaeda more than Saddam Hussein did.) And today, much of the world sees us as a pariah, and could care less if we're attacked again. Today, the Taliban is making a resurgence in Afghanistan. Today there are 2500 US soldiers dead in Iraq. Today Al Qaeda has reorganized and has a new base of operations and recruitment (Iraq.) Today we let our government erode the protections of the constitution because we are scared. We have already forgotten the lessons of 9/11 - if we ever learned them in the first place, that is. I can't disagree with anything you've said. The reality on the ground is just that. Again, as I've said several times now, I don't agree with how our leaders are going about this, but it's where we are.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #58 July 11, 2006 QuoteQuote I seem to recall that a number of Americans traveled to Britain in 1940 to fight against the Nazis. We celebrate their contributions. How is that different? What's your point, Kallend? If we all thought this way, we'd be speaking German. Think hard and you'll get it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #59 July 11, 2006 Quote Think hard and you'll get it. You're better than that. Why don't you educate a poor southern white boy for free?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #60 July 11, 2006 Quote.... who were from many other countries. They traveled to Afghanistan for Jihad.... Yes. Such behaviour is indeed reprehensible... Sticking your nose into a foreign war for some vague beliefs... So... Perhaps I should avoid mentioning The Flying Tigers, The Abraham Loncoln Brigade, The American Eagles, etc... or is that "Different"? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #61 July 11, 2006 QuoteIf we all thought this way, we'd be speaking German. Was'st schlecht mit dem Deutsch Sprechen? Christel, hilfen mir auf diesem. I thought this particular fallacy had been dealt with long ago. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #62 July 11, 2006 Quote I thought this particular fallacy had been dealt with long ago. Ok, if not German, what ever language spoken by the most aggressive group on the planet spoke.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #63 July 11, 2006 QuoteOk, if not German, what ever language spoken by the most aggressive group on the planet spoke. "If we all thought this way, we'd all be speaking German English"!!? Not really working, is it. Mike. Edited to add The Polish Blue Army to The flying Tigers, Lincoln Brigade & American Eagles. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #64 July 11, 2006 Quote ...the most aggressive group on the planet... Not really working, is it. It worked for yall for a while. We're not trying to do that.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #65 July 11, 2006 QuoteIt worked for yall for a while. We're not trying to do that. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa DUDE.. thanks for that one....its been a long day.. I needed a side splitter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #66 July 12, 2006 Quote BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA How so? If it was about the oil, we'd own the oil. Since we don't own the oil, what do you think we're doing?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #67 July 12, 2006 http://americans-world.org/digest/global_issues/globalization/culture.cfm Seek and ye shall find. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #68 July 12, 2006 Quote Seek and ye shall find. Looks like a nice article. I will read it. I have read several reputable sources how American business approaches 3rd world countries, with the aid of our government. Seems like it doesn't always work out best for the 3rd world country. Iraq wasn't a 3rd world country.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #69 July 12, 2006 Quote Thanks for the reply. How is a protected person defined? A protected person is anyone who is a national of a country that is a party to the conventions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #70 July 12, 2006 Quote A protected person is anyone who is a national of a country that is a party to the conventions. Thank you.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #71 July 12, 2006 Quote "Protected persons are entitled, in all circumstances, to respect for their persons, their honour, their family rights, their religious convictions and practices, and their manners and customs. They shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof and against insults and public curiosity." -Geneva 4, Art. 27 "No physical or moral coercion shall be exercised against protected persons, in particular to obtain information from them or from third parties." -Geneva 4, Art. 31 "Contracting Parties specifically agree that each of them is prohibited from taking any measure of such a character as to cause the physical suffering or extermination of protected persons in their hands. This prohibition applies not only to murder, torture, corporal punishments, mutilation and medical or scientific experiments not necessitated by the medical treatment of a protected person, but also to any other measures of brutality whether applied by civilian or military agents." -Geneva 4, Art. 32 So, what are the responsibilities of the protected persons in this agreement?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #72 July 12, 2006 QuoteQuote A protected person is anyone who is a national of a country that is a party to the conventions. Thank you. No prob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #73 July 12, 2006 Quote So, what are the responsibilities of the protected persons in this agreement? Hmm... The convention is a contract between governments about the treatment of the nationals of those countries. The convention doesn't really say anything about how the individual nationals are supposed to behave, if that's what you're asking. What it does say is: "Protected persons may in no circumstances renounce in part or in entirety the rights secured to them by the present Convention" -Geneva 4, Art. 8 "All protected persons who may desire to leave the territory at the outset of, or during a conflict, shall be entitled to do so...Those persons permitted to leave may provide themselves with the necessary funds for their journey and take with them a reasonable amount of their effects and articles of personal use.." -Geneva 4, Art. 35 "Protected persons shall not be transferred to a Power which is not a party to the Convention." -Geneva 4, Art. 45 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #74 July 12, 2006 Quote Hmm... The convention is a contract between governments about the treatment of the nationals of those countries. The convention doesn't really say anything about how the individual nationals are supposed to behave, if that's what you're asking. What it does say is: "Protected persons may in no circumstances renounce in part or in entirety the rights secured to them by the present Convention" -Geneva 4, Art. 8 "All protected persons who may desire to leave the territory at the outset of, or during a conflict, shall be entitled to do so...Those persons permitted to leave may provide themselves with the necessary funds for their journey and take with them a reasonable amount of their effects and articles of personal use.." -Geneva 4, Art. 35 "Protected persons shall not be transferred to a Power which is not a party to the Convention." -Geneva 4, Art. 45 In simple terms, when does a person become "protected", in practice?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #75 July 12, 2006 When the state that they are a national of becomes a party to the convention. In the case of Afghanistan, that would be 1949, Iraq in 1956. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
