Slavery reparations gaining momentum

[cloudseeker2001 0]

All of you people need a history lesson in American wealth.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[azdiver 0]

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Ok, so I've glanced at a few posts on here and decided to put in my two cents being a black male in america right now. Take it how you want....but its my opinion...

Reparations.....first, do I feel that we deserve them?

IMHO. Absolutely not. Did I have Great great great great (keep going) grand relatives who were slaves? Quite possibly. Is it affecting me today? No. Is racism still present in america? Absolutely, but I'm not gonna go and carry this chip on my shoulder saying that america should be paying something back to me and the rest of the black community for something that happened before we were even thought of nor did it have an affect on us.

You live your life and plan for it according to what you want and how you want to live. This isn't about white people being right or black people being right. Its about people waking the hell up and shutting up for two seconds about who has it worse or who can't get this or why we can't get in here.

If you want more for your life, then go for it. I want to be an astronaut and i'm busting my ass to get there. I go to the University of Michigan. No, I did not get in there because they had to fill a quota of black kids to get in. Its because i worked my ass off in high school, graduated with a 4.2, attained a 1390 on the SAT and did every single activity there was. I know what I want for myself and i'm not letting anyone or anything stop me. I also didnt go to one of those huge, awesome high schools with the AP classes. We had advanced college classes and that was it. I was the first and only kid in my school to ever take the AP Calc Exam and to ever get accepted to a Big Ten School. I'd say 1/4 - 1/2 of the kids in my graduating class are either still in my hometown doing nothing or doing drugs or have died or are pregnant, sadly.

What does this have to do with reparations...my problem with some parts of the black community is that we as people are often times so quick to put up the blame on everyone else before we put it on ourselves. Then when we don't get what we want, we're quick to walk around with this chip on our shoulder and say "reparations" or "racism." NOW, don't get me wrong, i'd say 4 out of 10 times, it just might be racism and if you don't believe racism doesn't exist still, PM me and I can give you some examples.

Anyways, i just feel we need to stop trying to blame others (and this goes for every race) for whats wrong with us now. Take responsibility. My dad is a preacher and I've heard him say this too. We're quick to say REPARATIONS FOR US and you guys owe us this amount of $$$ when we can't pay the rent or pay our bills. Why is that? Because we bought those $160 Jordans or that $3000 TV. (I know whites and blacks who do this)

Stop looking for handouts....thats all that is....is a handout....work for what you want. yeah I would love to be a millionaire with my house on cribs living the good life with a great job and still skydiving...but I know the only way I'll get there is by shutting off all the haters around me, not blaming everyone else for my own faults/failures, sacking up and working harder than ever for what I want.....not waiting on the government to give it to me. I know the world or government owes me nothing but If I walk around like it does, i'm never gonna get anywhere.....i'm willing to bust my ass to get anywhere and everywhere I wanna be as long as I'm treated just as fairly as everyone else at the same time...

Sorry for the rant....I dont normally come in SC, but I wanted to give my opinion on the matter. This post wasn't meant to attack anyone, just thought I'd make a point from another POV, hopefully it made sense...

its all about attitude and determination any one thats willing to do whats needed to get were they want has the oppertunity to do so. but if all you do is talk and blame others you will always be in the same place. waiting for others to do for you will get you know where. as far as does any one owe others for their current situation, hell no , i dont care what happened to your family,race, or in your country ten generations ago if your still using that as your excuse today then your to lazy to actually do anything to change. i have a large family, some worked hard and did what they had to a got to where they are today. others did nothing but try to get others to do for them and their still in the same place, trying to blame others for their problems, and no one in the family thinks they owe them a dime for it. and would be pissed as hell if some one told them they did.

ryan
ps good luckat being an astronaut, got more balls than i do

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[mirage62 0]

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and the rest of the story is that black slaves were sold to white slave
> traders by??? blacks in and from Africa.

Right. So?

So following the same logic, shouldn't the people that sold the slaves to the "white man" have to kick in some?

The whole thing is silly

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[akarunway 1]

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Ok, so I've glanced at a few posts on here and decided to put in my two cents being a black male in america right now. Take it how you want....but its my opinion...

Reparations.....first, do I feel that we deserve them?

IMHO. Absolutely not. Did I have Great great great great (keep going) grand relatives who were slaves? Quite possibly. Is it affecting me today? No. Is racism still present in america? Absolutely, but I'm not gonna go and carry this chip on my shoulder saying that america should be paying something back to me and the rest of the black community for something that happened before we were even thought of nor did it have an affect on us.

You live your life and plan for it according to what you want and how you want to live. This isn't about white people being right or black people being right. Its about people waking the hell up and shutting up for two seconds about who has it worse or who can't get this or why we can't get in here.

If you want more for your life, then go for it. I want to be an astronaut and i'm busting my ass to get there. I go to the University of Michigan. No, I did not get in there because they had to fill a quota of black kids to get in. Its because i worked my ass off in high school, graduated with a 4.2, attained a 1390 on the SAT and did every single activity there was. I know what I want for myself and i'm not letting anyone or anything stop me. I also didnt go to one of those huge, awesome high schools with the AP classes. We had advanced college classes and that was it. I was the first and only kid in my school to ever take the AP Calc Exam and to ever get accepted to a Big Ten School. I'd say 1/4 - 1/2 of the kids in my graduating class are either still in my hometown doing nothing or doing drugs or have died or are pregnant, sadly.

What does this have to do with reparations...my problem with some parts of the black community is that we as people are often times so quick to put up the blame on everyone else before we put it on ourselves. Then when we don't get what we want, we're quick to walk around with this chip on our shoulder and say "reparations" or "racism." NOW, don't get me wrong, i'd say 4 out of 10 times, it just might be racism and if you don't believe racism doesn't exist still, PM me and I can give you some examples.

Anyways, i just feel we need to stop trying to blame others (and this goes for every race) for whats wrong with us now. Take responsibility. My dad is a preacher and I've heard him say this too. We're quick to say REPARATIONS FOR US and you guys owe us this amount of $$$ when we can't pay the rent or pay our bills. Why is that? Because we bought those $160 Jordans or that $3000 TV. (I know whites and blacks who do this)

Stop looking for handouts....thats all that is....is a handout....work for what you want. yeah I would love to be a millionaire with my house on cribs living the good life with a great job and still skydiving...but I know the only way I'll get there is by shutting off all the haters around me, not blaming everyone else for my own faults/failures, sacking up and working harder than ever for what I want.....not waiting on the government to give it to me. I know the world or government owes me nothing but If I walk around like it does, i'm never gonna get anywhere.....i'm willing to bust my ass to get anywhere and everywhere I wanna be as long as I'm treated just as fairly as everyone else at the same time...

Sorry for the rant....I dont normally come in SC, but I wanted to give my opinion on the matter. This post wasn't meant to attack anyone, just thought I'd make a point from another POV, hopefully it made sense...

Well said. Now if blacks, whites, yellows had the same attitude this sure would be a better world. Thanks Edit to add: You won't get pissed at me for wearing my Rebel ballcap will ya? It's just a southern thing. Means no disrespect. I just a REBEL

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[brierebecca 0]

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If I remember it correctly it was before he was elected to the senate, he was running for office at the time.

Right. Hence my post about him DISAGREEING with Keyes while running for senate about slavery reparations. Keyes is a well-known slavery reparations activist. Since you don't seem to have anything concrete, I'm calling BS.

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[Zipp0 1]

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And I will point out again that nearly all black staves were sold to white slave traders by black slave gatheres. Do they owe something.

That sounds exactly like something Limbaugh would say that may or may not be complete bullshit. Please cite a source for this information.

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I suspect that you have (in your family tree) someone that did something wrong or illeagal (I do) do you owe the families of the wronged one compensation??

There is a difference between my great Grandpa punching someone in the face 100 years ago and government sanctioned enslavement of a race of people.

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This is nothing more than a money grab no better than the (you fill in the blanks)

What about the money grab by the profitteers of slavery? That was the REAL money grab.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Lindsey 0]

What about the money grab by the profitteers of slavery? That was the REAL money grab.

As awful as slavery was, I think it could be argued that many Americans whose ancestors were slaves have also profited from slavery. I look around at some of my African American colleagues who would unlikely be successful physicians were it not for the unfortunate ills that befell their people in the past.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Zipp0 1]

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What about the money grab by the profitteers of slavery? That was the REAL money grab.

As awful as slavery was, I think it could be argued that many Americans whose ancestors were slaves have also profited from slavery. I look around at some of my African American colleagues who would unlikely be successful physicians were it not for the unfortunate ills that befell their people in the past.

linz

Isn't that like saying that some Jews might have benefitted from the holocaust? Maybe I just don't get what you mean?

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[billvon 3,116]

>So following the same logic, shouldn't the people that sold the
>slaves to the "white man" have to kick in some?

Kick in some what? I disagree with the whole idea behind slavery/segregation reparations (unless a person is _directly_ affected by them.)

I was speaking to the absurd comparison between slaves and US servicemen. There is no comparison.

[Amazon 7]

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Isn't that like saying that some Jews might have benefitted from the holocaust? Maybe I just don't get what you mean?

They are the decendants of those who were brought to America.. thereby benefitting from being Americans rather than Biafrans... or Hutu or any of dozens of other tribal peoples who have suffered greatly at the hands of other tribes in Africa over the last 20,000 years.


Personally I support reparations to all immigrants who have come here no matter how they got here... with free tickets back to where ever you came from ... if you are not liking what this country has become and are not willing to do anything about it.

[Lindsey 0]

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What about the money grab by the profitteers of slavery? That was the REAL money grab.

As awful as slavery was, I think it could be argued that many Americans whose ancestors were slaves have also profited from slavery. I look around at some of my African American colleagues who would unlikely be successful physicians were it not for the unfortunate ills that befell their people in the past.

linz

Isn't that like saying that some Jews might have benefitted from the holocaust? Maybe I just don't get what you mean?

Sometimes we DO benefit from bad things that happened in history. Some Jews may have benefitted from the Holocaust. That doesn't mean that the Holocaust wasn't horrific, and to say that some African Americans may have benefitted from slavery in no way diminishes the evils that were done to people who were enslaved.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Zipp0 1]

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Isn't that like saying that some Jews might have benefitted from the holocaust? Maybe I just don't get what you mean?

They are the decendants of those who were brought to America.. thereby benefitting from being Americans rather than Biafrans... or Hutu or any of dozens of other tribal peoples who have suffered greatly at the hands of other tribes in Africa over the last 20,000 years.

Suffering in freedom is better than existing in slavery.

And to assume that every decendent of African slaves has a better life now than if their ancestors would have been left alone is preposterous. There is no way to begin to know something like that.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Amazon 7]

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And to assume that every decendent of African slaves has a better life now than if their ancestors would have been left alone is preposterous. There is no way to begin to know something like that.

Read anything about conditions in Sub-Saharan Africa recently......like oohhhh the past 30 years....


Wars...mercenaries.........AIDS........starvation......ethnic strife......tribal murders.... it is without a doubt the central focus of human suffering far outstripping other regions of the world.

There is a VERY REAL probability that being here.. is FAR better than being there.

Even those freed slaves who did leave and repatriate back to Africa after the Civil War.... to Liberia( hence the American style flag with a single Star)... has had their own civil war raging for YEARS.

[psipike02 0]

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Well said. Now if blacks, whites, yellows had the same attitude this sure would be a better world. Thanks Edit to add: You won't get pissed at me for wearing my Rebel ballcap will ya? It's just a southern thing. Means no disrespect. I just a REBEL

Hahah of course not.....I'm not the person that goes " YOU'RE A RACIST!!!" if i see someone wearing that hat....am I cautious towards certain people with it.....yeah, cause not everyone has the same intent.

But if everyones is the same as yours.....hahahah naw dude, sport it proudly

Puttin' some stank on it.

----Hellfish #707----

[Zipp0 1]

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And to assume that every decendent of African slaves has a better life now than if their ancestors would have been left alone is preposterous. There is no way to begin to know something like that.

Read anything about conditions in Sub-Saharan Africa recently......like oohhhh the past 30 years....


Wars...mercenaries.........AIDS........starvation......ethnic strife......tribal murders.... it is without a doubt the central focus of human suffering far outstripping other regions of the world.

There is a VERY REAL probability that being here.. is FAR better than being there.

Even those freed slaves who did leave and repatriate back to Africa after the Civil War.... to Liberia( hence the American style flag with a single Star)... has had their own civil war raging for YEARS.

Well shit, by your logic we should bring back slavery and rescue all of those poor ignorant Africans.

And what happens if Africa begins to modernize in the coming years? For instance, the enconomy in Angola is esxpected to grow by 26% this year, allowing for resettlement of 4 million people and new programs to build a robust infrastructure. If Africa is a better place to be in the future, all of these arguments will be invalid, or more invalid than they already are.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[bch7773 0]

I'm all for reperations.... after the blacks pay the relatives of northern soldiers who died in the civil war to guarentee their freedom. Something tells me the two would cancel out easily, and the blacks would still owe the north money.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Zipp0 1]

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I'm all for reperations.... after the blacks pay the relatives of northern soldiers who died in the civil war to guarentee their freedom. Something tells me the two would cancel out easily, and the blacks would still owe the north money.

What about the blacks that fought for the North?

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[champu 1]

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Suffering in freedom is better than existing in slavery.

I agree, as did the U.S. as a nation. Hence the 13th amendment.

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And to assume that every decendent of African slaves has a better life now than if their ancestors would have been left alone is preposterous. There is no way to begin to know something like that.

You're absolutely right, there is no way to know, but that argument is a double-edged sword.

[kallend 2,148]

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I'm all for reperations.... after the blacks pay the relatives of northern soldiers who died in the civil war to guarentee their freedom. Something tells me the two would cancel out easily, and the blacks would still owe the north money.

Oh, the old "It's the victims' fault, the victims should pay" scenario.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[eflynn 0]

How is it they wouldn't have become successful physicians "were it not for the unfortunate ills that befell their people in the past?" I can't imagine how you're going to begin to defend your position but on the surface, that comment is so casually arrogant it incenses me. I suppose had these same people's ancestors never been removed from Africa they wouldn't have had the chance to receive the wonderful educations that are only available in the US? Based on your "logic," it could be argued that any positive incident could be directly or indirectly as a result of something negative that happened prior. No. In the example you've given it's absolutely ridiculous.

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What about the money grab by the profitteers of slavery? That was the REAL money grab.

As awful as slavery was, I think it could be argued that many Americans whose ancestors were slaves have also profited from slavery. I look around at some of my African American colleagues who would unlikely be successful physicians were it not for the unfortunate ills that befell their people in the past.

linz

[pirana 0]

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Can you answer anything w/o spinning it into a pile of shit? You're like a hybrid between a lawyer and psychiatrist.

Just answer, or better yet, just avoid. My motives or anyone's motives are generally irrelivant. The issue, the merit of the argument, not the author. But psychologists/psychiatrists focus on the author, not issue. Ok, we're real proud, you just graduated cum loudly from some university with a psch degree, now answer questions and quit the mind-fuck.

Do you see every post and response as an opportunity to just flame on? My questions and answers are pretty civil (I think). Do you ever communicate in a civil manner?

I'll try again.

You ask me to just answer. I'll do that.

So just ask a straightforward question and I'll try a straightforward answer. As I said already, I'm still not sure what your question is.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Lindsey 0]

I think it's pretty clear that people are financially better off here in the US than in most of Africa. My reply was to a statement about who has profited financially from slavery. You can get incensed if you want, but just because it's not pc to say so doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of black people who are doing pretty damn well for themselves in the US. The route of immigration kinda sucked for their ancestors, but meanwhile nowadays it's hard to argue that we aren't a tad wealthier here than there....

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[champu 1]

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Based on your "logic," it could be argued that any positive incident could be directly or indirectly as a result of something negative that happened prior. No. In the example you've given it's absolutely ridiculous.

What?

The course of history is a complex thing. Good and bad things happen all the time. If you're really really good you might be able to trace the history of one person back several generations, change one little thing that happened, and project how it would have impacted that person's life in the present.

If you intend to trace back the history of an entire race of people, remove something as monstrous as the slave trade from their ancestors' lives, extrapolate what their present lives would be in this alternate universe, and glean from this information a reasonable dollar value that could be paid to them (or charged of them!) to set everything straight, then I just have one thing to say.

Good. Fucking. Luck.

[rehmwa 2]

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, then I just have one thing to say.

Haven't you been reading?

Statement "It has improved their lives"
Response "No WAY, how can you tell, it's impossible to know. Too many things have happened in the world"

and
Statement "It has hurt their lives"
Response "No KIDDING, certainly a lot of money is due, compounded over nearly 2 centuries, the very poor would have saved that in sensible, interest bearing mutual funds instead of just buying food and clothes"


Same persons giving both responses......

this is fun

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DaVinci 0]

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They are the decendants of those who were brought to America.. thereby benefitting from being Americans rather than Biafrans... or Hutu or any of dozens of other tribal peoples who have suffered greatly at the hands of other tribes in Africa over the last 20,000 years.


Personally I support reparations to all immigrants who have come here no matter how they got here... with free tickets back to where ever you came from ... if you are not liking what this country has become and are not willing to do anything about it.

You and I agree 100% on something.....Had to happen at some point I guess.