billvon 3,111 #1 July 6, 2006 Looks like the CIA is moving on to more important things, like kidnapping people and exporting them to countries that use torture: ---------------------- C.I.A. Closes Unit Focused on Capture of bin Laden By MARK MAZZETTI Published: July 4, 2006 WASHINGTON, July 3 — The Central Intelligence Agency has closed a unit that for a decade had the mission of hunting Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants, intelligence officials confirmed Monday. The unit, known as Alec Station, was disbanded late last year and its analysts reassigned within the C.I.A. Counterterrorist Center, the officials said. The decision is a milestone for the agency, which formed the unit before Osama bin Laden became a household name and bolstered its ranks after the Sept. 11 attacks, when President Bush pledged to bring Mr. bin Laden to justice "dead or alive." ----------------------- The article then goes on to say that they are, of course, still really looking for him and the closure doesn't mean a thing. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/washington/04intel.html?ex=1309665600&en=3779ed9b98bb9d22&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #2 July 6, 2006 QuoteLooks like the CIA is moving on to more important things, like kidnapping people and exporting them to countries that use torture: He'll be back on the menu by the summer of 2008. If not, then that means he's no longer necessary because Diebold has "fixed" their machines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aftermid 0 #3 July 6, 2006 Get with it. Osama was so 2001. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #4 July 6, 2006 Osama been Forgaden? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #5 July 6, 2006 I think Osama can get out of hot water with just a little twist of fate/faith. All he needs is to turn to Jesus and hope presidential hopeful Governor Mike Huckabee (R) Arkansas wins. Mike, a Baptish preacher has been know to give pardons to the worst criminals. Osama, "turn your heart to Jesus. It's a sure thang".Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #6 July 6, 2006 Just because a the CIA shuts down one unit doesnt mean anything. There are SEVERAL classified units dedicated to the same thing and a number of missions the CIA was in charge of are getting moved to the NCTC. (National Counter-Terrorism Center) The DoD has resources looking, the NSA, the CIA STILL has resouces dedicated to finding bin laden. One unit doesnt mean anything. Just a reorganization. The media can spin it however they like. edit to add: Torture is the most effective way to get information. Each finger they rip off could save thousands of lives. Get em guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,586 #7 July 6, 2006 QuoteTorture is the most effective way to get information. Each finger they rip off could save thousands of lives.However, torture tends to get you crap information. Because people will say anything to stop the torture, even if they don't know it. And torturers are rewarded for quantity, not quality. And eventually the act of torturing becomes worthwhile, as a "punishment" to the perceived wrongdoer. There've been some informal studies done, in countries that used to use it. Interesting stuff. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #8 July 6, 2006 >Torture is the most effective way to get information. Each finger >they rip off could save thousands of lives. So if you didn't know anything, you wouldn't start lying to prevent them from ripping your fingers off? Torture is a great way to get bad info. Bad info means successful terrorism anbd dead americans. We don't need another 9/11. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #9 July 6, 2006 if they get one piece of good info for every 10 piece of bad info it is more than worth it.. I fail to see how it means "Successful terrorism" But I digress, Your point in the origional post was to say the CIA and the US as a whole has given up on searching for bin laden. Nothing can be further from the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #10 July 6, 2006 "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 3/13/02 "I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts, 3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #11 July 6, 2006 >I fail to see how it means "Successful terrorism" Because if 90% of our forces/security/local police are running around to places where there are no terrorists (based on bad info) then we have reduced our defenses by 90%. That's bad. >Your point in the origional post was to say the CIA and the US >as a whole has given up on searching for bin laden. Bush has admitted that finding him is no longer that important. Are you saying he's a liar? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #12 July 7, 2006 Quote"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 3/13/02 "I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts, 3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02) I dont see what these statements have to do with the amount of assets we have looking for bin laden. Classified or otherwise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #13 July 7, 2006 QuoteQuote"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 3/13/02 "I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts, 3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02) I dont see what these statements have to do with the amount of assets we have looking for bin laden. Classified or otherwise. So, either the president is lying or he is just not as informed about the uses of our resources as you are? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #14 July 7, 2006 QuoteQuote"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 3/13/02 "I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts, 3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02) I dont see what these statements have to do with the amount of assets we have looking for bin laden. Classified or otherwise. Are you suggesting the President lied? I find your comments on torture quite repulsive. Do you think it OK for our enemies to torture our troops too, if they want information?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #15 July 7, 2006 QuoteLooks like the CIA is moving on to more important things, like kidnapping people and exporting them to countries that use torture. Hawkins is probably right (at least up until the "torture is the most effective way to get information" comment) this sounds like a re-org that will have little impact on actual priorities. And honestly? It also sounds like a good idea. Remember that we're talking about a unit which, after ten years, has not accomplished the one and only objective it was created to accomplish. I'd say a shake-up is long overdue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #16 July 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote" I find your comments on torture quite repulsive. Who cares? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hawkins121 0 #17 July 7, 2006 Quote Do you think it OK for our enemies to torture our troops too, if they want information? No, but I'm biased. Plus they will torture our guys if they are unlucky enough to be taken prisoner so I say fuck them. The more fingers we rip off of these pieces of shit the better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #18 July 7, 2006 Quoteedit to add: Torture is the most effective way to get information. Each finger they rip off could save thousands of lives. Get em guys. I can appreciate where you are coming from with this but do we have safegaurds in place to make sure that those doing the torturing are only doing it to people who have info? If left unchecked they could be torturing people who know nothing just to speculate. They may even go a step further and torture the relatives of bad guys to get info. I would feel no sympathy for a guy like bin laden but I would not want to see somone torturing an innocent relative just to get info from him. Furthermore many of the people in the know seem to feel that interrogation by people who know how to use methods of getting a suspect to "lower his gaurd" can get more accurate info than some guy ripping out fingernails. I really don't know, but I would have some reservations about your approach. Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #19 July 7, 2006 no guys, don't you see its psychological warfare?!?!? Bush: Osama we aren't looking for you anymore. This game of hide-and-seek is boring. I'm gonna go play my Iraq game. Osama: Ok I am coming out. I was in the laundry hamper. Bush: Thats cheating!!! Get him SEALs!!! SEALs shoot Osama. Victory!!!!!! MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lefty 0 #20 July 7, 2006 Quoteno guys, don't you see its psychological warfare?!?!? Bush: Osama we aren't looking for you anymore. This game of hide-and-seek is boring. I'm gonna go play my Iraq game. Osama: Ok I am coming out. I was in the laundry hamper. Bush: Thats cheating!!! Get him SEALs!!! SEALs shoot Osama. Victory!!!!!! Actually that might not be too far from the truth.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #21 July 7, 2006 QuoteActually that might not be too far from the truth. yes, I am sure the guy who has evaded capture for this long has just been lucky and is stupid enough to all of a sudden come out of hiding....right.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #22 July 7, 2006 let's all check our laundry hampers when we get home, just to be sure. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lefty 0 #23 July 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteActually that might not be too far from the truth. yes, I am sure the guy who has evaded capture for this long has just been lucky and is stupid enough to all of a sudden come out of hiding....right.... I'm just saying it might be something to get him to let his guard down. Every little bit of strategy helps. I consider Billvon smart, but look how easily he fell for it.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #24 July 7, 2006 Quotelet's all check our laundry hampers when we get home, just to be sure. Interesting. I did notice an unfamiliar and strangely twisted towel that smelled faintly of curry in my hamper. Should I call the FBI? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites azdiver 0 #25 July 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteActually that might not be too far from the truth. yes, I am sure the guy who has evaded capture for this long has just been lucky and is stupid enough to all of a sudden come out of hiding....right.... I'm just saying it might be something to get him to let his guard down. Every little bit of strategy helps. I consider Billvon smart, but look how easily he fell for it.makes sense to me let him make a mistake like zarqoui did and drop a bomb on his head. did billvon fall for? or just creating an insightfull debate.light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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Hawkins121 0 #17 July 7, 2006 Quote Do you think it OK for our enemies to torture our troops too, if they want information? No, but I'm biased. Plus they will torture our guys if they are unlucky enough to be taken prisoner so I say fuck them. The more fingers we rip off of these pieces of shit the better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #18 July 7, 2006 Quoteedit to add: Torture is the most effective way to get information. Each finger they rip off could save thousands of lives. Get em guys. I can appreciate where you are coming from with this but do we have safegaurds in place to make sure that those doing the torturing are only doing it to people who have info? If left unchecked they could be torturing people who know nothing just to speculate. They may even go a step further and torture the relatives of bad guys to get info. I would feel no sympathy for a guy like bin laden but I would not want to see somone torturing an innocent relative just to get info from him. Furthermore many of the people in the know seem to feel that interrogation by people who know how to use methods of getting a suspect to "lower his gaurd" can get more accurate info than some guy ripping out fingernails. I really don't know, but I would have some reservations about your approach. Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #19 July 7, 2006 no guys, don't you see its psychological warfare?!?!? Bush: Osama we aren't looking for you anymore. This game of hide-and-seek is boring. I'm gonna go play my Iraq game. Osama: Ok I am coming out. I was in the laundry hamper. Bush: Thats cheating!!! Get him SEALs!!! SEALs shoot Osama. Victory!!!!!! MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #20 July 7, 2006 Quoteno guys, don't you see its psychological warfare?!?!? Bush: Osama we aren't looking for you anymore. This game of hide-and-seek is boring. I'm gonna go play my Iraq game. Osama: Ok I am coming out. I was in the laundry hamper. Bush: Thats cheating!!! Get him SEALs!!! SEALs shoot Osama. Victory!!!!!! Actually that might not be too far from the truth.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #21 July 7, 2006 QuoteActually that might not be too far from the truth. yes, I am sure the guy who has evaded capture for this long has just been lucky and is stupid enough to all of a sudden come out of hiding....right.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #22 July 7, 2006 let's all check our laundry hampers when we get home, just to be sure. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #23 July 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteActually that might not be too far from the truth. yes, I am sure the guy who has evaded capture for this long has just been lucky and is stupid enough to all of a sudden come out of hiding....right.... I'm just saying it might be something to get him to let his guard down. Every little bit of strategy helps. I consider Billvon smart, but look how easily he fell for it.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #24 July 7, 2006 Quotelet's all check our laundry hampers when we get home, just to be sure. Interesting. I did notice an unfamiliar and strangely twisted towel that smelled faintly of curry in my hamper. Should I call the FBI? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdiver 0 #25 July 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteActually that might not be too far from the truth. yes, I am sure the guy who has evaded capture for this long has just been lucky and is stupid enough to all of a sudden come out of hiding....right.... I'm just saying it might be something to get him to let his guard down. Every little bit of strategy helps. I consider Billvon smart, but look how easily he fell for it.makes sense to me let him make a mistake like zarqoui did and drop a bomb on his head. did billvon fall for? or just creating an insightfull debate.light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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