rushmc 23
Iraq How-to Manual Directed Arab Military Operatives In Afghanistan
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bodypilot90, in Speakers Corner
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billvon 3,132
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>Nice dream world there bill..........
Well, reality does have a well known liberal bias. Comes from living in the "reality-based community" I suppose.
Well, reality does have a well known liberal bias. Comes from living in the "reality-based community" I suppose.
Zipp0 1
Quote
I'm pretty happy being a liberal, actually. And it really has very little to do with the fact that we did not find WMD's or evidence that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9/11.
Nice dream world there bill..........
First of all, why did the government make this exclusive to Fox News? My gut tells me to be skeptical because of this.
And where is the proof that Saddam had involvement in 9/11? Please help me come out of this dream-like state.
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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.
rushmc 23
...like I said......
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
stuck that in just for you and amazon
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rushmc 23
QuoteQuote
I'm pretty happy being a liberal, actually. And it really has very little to do with the fact that we did not find WMD's or evidence that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9/11.
Nice dream world there bill..........
First of all, why did the government make this exclusive to Fox News? My gut tells me to be skeptical because of this.
And where is the proof that Saddam had involvement in 9/11? Please help me come out of this dream-like state.
Stop with the liberal smoke and you will awaken!
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Amazon 7
QuoteFirst of all, why did the government make this exclusive to Fox News? My gut tells me to be skeptical because of this.
Remember when TASS and Pravda were the OFFICIAL news outlets of the Soviets.....those Evil Empire commies....
slug 1
LMAOQuoteQuoteAn Arab regime, possibly Iraq, supplied how-to manuals for Arab operatives working throughout Afghanistan before 9/11, and provided military assistance to the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
That's the most likely conclusion drawn from an apparent training manual unearthed in captured Iraqi government computer files translated and analyzed exclusively for Fox News, and made public for the first time.
The document, apparently written before the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, could bolster the Bush administration's contention that Saddam Hussein was providing support for Islamic extremists who were plotting against America.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202277,00.html
wmd's now this, must suck to be a lib
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notice the buzz words "possiably", "apparently" and "most likely conclusion"
.
There's 2 sides to every story and then there's the truth
Kill commies
R.I.P.
SkyDekker 1,465
Your post clearly proves that your average FOX viewer is stupid.
Possibly
most likely conclusion
apparent
apparently
I guess the average reader or viewer doesn't understand what those (quite simple) words mean.
Also shows that FOX News is an absolutel joke and really is no better than Dan Rather.
Possibly
most likely conclusion
apparent
apparently
I guess the average reader or viewer doesn't understand what those (quite simple) words mean.
Also shows that FOX News is an absolutel joke and really is no better than Dan Rather.
TheAnvil 0
I don't think this report sheds light on anything we didn't already know. The Saudis and the Pakistanis - the latter with American $$ funneled via ISI - funded Al Quaeda training camps in Afghanistan, and it's a fairly well documented fact. Stephen Coll describes it well in his book on the history of US involvement in Afghanistan - Secret Wars I believe it was titled. Arab govt's supporting terror is not a startling revelation.
Despite the fact that WMDs have been found - and lots of them - leftists will NEVER focus on the fact that the UN Inspectors were wrong. They will always point to the fact that no evidence has emerged proving Saddam Hussein's regime was pursuing production capabilities for more WMD's.
I think the left is really in trouble for many other reasons and this story does little for either their demise or the advancement of the Republicans. It is interesting, however, and might later - with additional data - show something else horrid about Hussein's regime (not that there wasn't enough out there already).
Despite the fact that WMDs have been found - and lots of them - leftists will NEVER focus on the fact that the UN Inspectors were wrong. They will always point to the fact that no evidence has emerged proving Saddam Hussein's regime was pursuing production capabilities for more WMD's.
I think the left is really in trouble for many other reasons and this story does little for either their demise or the advancement of the Republicans. It is interesting, however, and might later - with additional data - show something else horrid about Hussein's regime (not that there wasn't enough out there already).
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
TheAnvil 0
I can make the same assumption about the intellect of those who have watched CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC for years and deny their left leaning bias.
All networks - Fox and CNN included, bias aside, actually do produce some excellent journalism from time to time and none of them may be discounted as a 'joke' in their entirety.
All networks - Fox and CNN included, bias aside, actually do produce some excellent journalism from time to time and none of them may be discounted as a 'joke' in their entirety.
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
It is a breaking story. More factual than stuff in the NY and LA times
Because the People must know
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Because the People must know
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SkyDekker 1,465
Look at the title of the article, then look at the first line....
That is a joke.
If your reply to that is: Well, the others do it too, then all I have to say is that I had hoped you had outgrown your JK years.
That is a joke.
If your reply to that is: Well, the others do it too, then all I have to say is that I had hoped you had outgrown your JK years.
QuoteQuoteAn Arab regime, possibly Iraq, supplied how-to manuals for Arab operatives working throughout Afghanistan before 9/11, and provided military assistance to the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
That's the most likely conclusion drawn from an apparent training manual unearthed in captured Iraqi government computer files translated and analyzed exclusively for Fox News, and made public for the first time.
The document, apparently written before the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, could bolster the Bush administration's contention that Saddam Hussein was providing support for Islamic extremists who were plotting against America.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202277,00.html
Once again, it appears that Fox News tends to blur the line bewtween news and (politicised) opinion. Is this to satisfy its sponsors and gain advertising revenue? It certainly does little for their credibility.
Possibly. likely. Apparent(ly). Etc... is NOT news. It's good editing to slant an inconclusive (non) story into a story.
Hence, once again, I'll wait & see if The Beeb runs with this. Nothing so far on:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/default.stm
Mike.
Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.
Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.
billvon 3,132
>leftists will NEVER focus on the fact that the UN Inspectors were wrong.
Neither will "rightists" since even US inspectors have admitted that Saddam had no working WMD's and no WMD programs. (Well, some people will always claim that there were actually secret invisible WMD's, but those are the same sort of people that claim that the Pentagon was really blown up by a US missile.)
Neither will "rightists" since even US inspectors have admitted that Saddam had no working WMD's and no WMD programs. (Well, some people will always claim that there were actually secret invisible WMD's, but those are the same sort of people that claim that the Pentagon was really blown up by a US missile.)
rushmc 23
Quote>leftists will NEVER focus on the fact that the UN Inspectors were wrong.
Neither will "rightists" since even US inspectors have admitted that Saddam had no working WMD's and no WMD programs.
Oh the subtle word change tactic.
...no "working" WMD's
pretty slick there bill
Oh, and there is tooooooooo much documentation to get away with the claim of no WMD program either.
Slick non the less......
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Royd 0
Probably because the liberal press would have thrown it in the trash can. It would go against their preset agenda.Quoterst of all, why did the government make this exclusive to Fox News? My gut tells me to be skeptical because of this.
mikkey 0
A lot of people rhere eally remind me of the former Iraqi Information Minister.
So 500 rusty pre-1990 gas shells are prove of dangerous WMD's that represent a clear and present danger, making it necessary to immediately invade Iraq?
"apparent training manual " "warns, in stark how-to terms, of the dangers of "information leaks," and instructs Arab operatives inside Afghanistan to dress like Afghan tribesmen, to avoid being followed ("Routine is the enemy of security"), to always be armed, and "to behave as if enemies would strike at any moment."
So is this a manual in terror? From what the "article" says it is about avoiding detection. If you are warned to not reveal you are Arab in a country run by the Taleban (this is from pre 9/11) and AQ - why does it indicate you are there to help the Taleban / AQ?
Could as well be instructions to operatives spying on the Taleban at the time.
The straws posted here are getting longer and longer.
All reminds me of the Iraqi Information Ministers last press conference in Baghdad claiming victory while US tanks were only a few kilometres away.
So 500 rusty pre-1990 gas shells are prove of dangerous WMD's that represent a clear and present danger, making it necessary to immediately invade Iraq?
is definately Iraq?QuoteAn Arab regime, possibly Iraq
"apparent training manual " "warns, in stark how-to terms, of the dangers of "information leaks," and instructs Arab operatives inside Afghanistan to dress like Afghan tribesmen, to avoid being followed ("Routine is the enemy of security"), to always be armed, and "to behave as if enemies would strike at any moment."
So is this a manual in terror? From what the "article" says it is about avoiding detection. If you are warned to not reveal you are Arab in a country run by the Taleban (this is from pre 9/11) and AQ - why does it indicate you are there to help the Taleban / AQ?
Could as well be instructions to operatives spying on the Taleban at the time.
The straws posted here are getting longer and longer.
All reminds me of the Iraqi Information Ministers last press conference in Baghdad claiming victory while US tanks were only a few kilometres away.
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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.
billvon 3,132
>Oh the subtle word change tactic.
>...no "working" WMD's
>pretty slick there bill
Just going by what the CIA reported. The US investigators said they found no working WMD's, but explicitly warned people that there WOULD be small quantities of degraded chemical weapons showing up periodically.
So the CIA specifically warned right wingers not to make fools of themselves by later claiming that degraded chemical weapons were really WMD's, but the right wingers paid about as much attention to them as they did to anything else that they disagreed with. From the final report:
-----------------
In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing . . . .
Another addendum also noted that military forces in Iraq may continue to find small numbers of degraded chemical weapons — most likely misplaced or improperly destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War.
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>Oh, and there is tooooooooo much documentation to get away with
>the claim of no WMD program either.
So you disagree with that lying liberal activist group, the CIA? Reality does have a nasty liberal bias . . .
>...no "working" WMD's
>pretty slick there bill
Just going by what the CIA reported. The US investigators said they found no working WMD's, but explicitly warned people that there WOULD be small quantities of degraded chemical weapons showing up periodically.
So the CIA specifically warned right wingers not to make fools of themselves by later claiming that degraded chemical weapons were really WMD's, but the right wingers paid about as much attention to them as they did to anything else that they disagreed with. From the final report:
-----------------
In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing . . . .
Another addendum also noted that military forces in Iraq may continue to find small numbers of degraded chemical weapons — most likely misplaced or improperly destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War.
----------------
>Oh, and there is tooooooooo much documentation to get away with
>the claim of no WMD program either.
So you disagree with that lying liberal activist group, the CIA? Reality does have a nasty liberal bias . . .
TheAnvil 0
No working WMD's? Odd statement.
I distinctly recall leftists prior to our invasion showing pictures of Don Rumsfeld with Saddam Hussein with glee, chortling about hypocrisy prior to running with their tails between their legs when asked about 444 days in Iran and how that related to their beloved photo of Secretary Rumsfeld or the WMDs we gave Iraq. The only time you'd see such leftists tuck their tails and run any faster would be when asked about the WMD's we provided Iraq and their disposition when said leftists shrieked that Iraq had no WMD's.
Between the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, our coalition action to drive the iraqis out of Kuwait, and our subsequent invasion of Iraq, the Iraqi military fired thousands upon thousands of rounds. Do you honestly believe that if SH's controls on his WMDs were so insanely incompetent as the random dispersion of shells found to date seem to indicate, that one or more chemical agent bearing shells would not have been fired accidentally? You're a smart guy - think as you like. I for one, am not buying it at all. WMD's possessed by sovereign nations are controlled and tightly. Once used, they raise the stakes far too greatly to even contemplate using one accidentally. They are therefore controlled. Again, think as you like, but that's how I think myself and the fact that NO chemical shells were fired accidentally tends to support my line of thinking. The lack of documentation on such control systems and ongoing programs that we've discovered to date seems to support your own and other leftists' lines of thinking. Neither side knows for certain.
The Fox report is interesting, but not really of great note. Given the benefit of hindsight I'm more than a little disappointed with the actions of both the Executive and Legislative branches of government with regards to the Iraq war. Hindsight is bliss, however, and armchair quarterbacks most plentiful.
I distinctly recall leftists prior to our invasion showing pictures of Don Rumsfeld with Saddam Hussein with glee, chortling about hypocrisy prior to running with their tails between their legs when asked about 444 days in Iran and how that related to their beloved photo of Secretary Rumsfeld or the WMDs we gave Iraq. The only time you'd see such leftists tuck their tails and run any faster would be when asked about the WMD's we provided Iraq and their disposition when said leftists shrieked that Iraq had no WMD's.
Between the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, our coalition action to drive the iraqis out of Kuwait, and our subsequent invasion of Iraq, the Iraqi military fired thousands upon thousands of rounds. Do you honestly believe that if SH's controls on his WMDs were so insanely incompetent as the random dispersion of shells found to date seem to indicate, that one or more chemical agent bearing shells would not have been fired accidentally? You're a smart guy - think as you like. I for one, am not buying it at all. WMD's possessed by sovereign nations are controlled and tightly. Once used, they raise the stakes far too greatly to even contemplate using one accidentally. They are therefore controlled. Again, think as you like, but that's how I think myself and the fact that NO chemical shells were fired accidentally tends to support my line of thinking. The lack of documentation on such control systems and ongoing programs that we've discovered to date seems to support your own and other leftists' lines of thinking. Neither side knows for certain.
The Fox report is interesting, but not really of great note. Given the benefit of hindsight I'm more than a little disappointed with the actions of both the Executive and Legislative branches of government with regards to the Iraq war. Hindsight is bliss, however, and armchair quarterbacks most plentiful.
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
billvon 3,132
>No working WMD's? Odd statement.
Just going by the CIA report and the administration. Surely you do not consider them biased leftist sources.
>WMD's possessed by sovereign nations are controlled and tightly.
How do you control anything in a military tightly when said military is regularly being blown to shit by bombing campaigns? Remember we dropped 250,000 bombs on Iraq's military during just the first Gulf War. That's a quarter of a million bombs.
If you had a cache of guns in your home, how "tightly controlled" would they have been after even one 4000 lb bomb was dropped on your house? Could you produce evidence that they had been destroyed? Think such an event might scatter some gun parts around a bit?
>the fact that NO chemical shells were fired accidentally tends to
>support my line of thinking.
So the fact that no WMD's were found, and no WMD's were fired, suggests that Saddam DID have WMD's?
By that sort of logic, I am definitely a duck!
Just going by the CIA report and the administration. Surely you do not consider them biased leftist sources.
>WMD's possessed by sovereign nations are controlled and tightly.
How do you control anything in a military tightly when said military is regularly being blown to shit by bombing campaigns? Remember we dropped 250,000 bombs on Iraq's military during just the first Gulf War. That's a quarter of a million bombs.
If you had a cache of guns in your home, how "tightly controlled" would they have been after even one 4000 lb bomb was dropped on your house? Could you produce evidence that they had been destroyed? Think such an event might scatter some gun parts around a bit?
>the fact that NO chemical shells were fired accidentally tends to
>support my line of thinking.
So the fact that no WMD's were found, and no WMD's were fired, suggests that Saddam DID have WMD's?
By that sort of logic, I am definitely a duck!
TheAnvil 0
Sounds like you're quacking to me. Perhaps you should reread what they're reporting. Shells containing mustard and sarin gas...none that would function as designed - probably designed to disperse the gas in the air prior to impact with the fuses/sensing/timing mechanisms non-functional; not sure, as I don't know a lot about the design of chemical weapons and have no interest in the subject. I don't really believe mustard gas has a 20 year decay time and nor do you, if you've read anything at all about it. Somebody posted a nice reference to the mustard gas shells that still infest certain areas of France in some thread in here a while back. Interesting reading.
The decimated military of which you speak managed to produce a new long range missile - the Al Samoud if memory serves - that they subsequently destroyed because it exceeded the range limits imposed by the UN. Can conduct the research to produce a new missile but not keep controls on certain munitions? You know better as do I. It's either tight control or unbelievable luck that such a shell was not fired...such luck within the chaos known as battle that I'm hard pressed to believe it, given the irrefutable fact that such shells do/did exist. Without functioning as designed their effect would not have been as devastating as designed, but their use would have been detected.
The decimated military of which you speak managed to produce a new long range missile - the Al Samoud if memory serves - that they subsequently destroyed because it exceeded the range limits imposed by the UN. Can conduct the research to produce a new missile but not keep controls on certain munitions? You know better as do I. It's either tight control or unbelievable luck that such a shell was not fired...such luck within the chaos known as battle that I'm hard pressed to believe it, given the irrefutable fact that such shells do/did exist. Without functioning as designed their effect would not have been as devastating as designed, but their use would have been detected.
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
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