kallend 2,150 #26 July 11, 2006 QuoteQuote>Right, that's what I'm saying. The person who actually kills bears responsibility for the killing, and bears most of the guilt for the crime. Other people (like the person who paid him to do it) may also bear guilt for the crime. We call such people accessories, or conspirators. As I said - we were agreeing in the first place. The rest is semantics. But I disagree that other people bear guilt for "the" crime. Those other people bear guilt for their own distinct crimes and I purposefully use that position to make the point. Murder is a completely different crime than accessory to murder - even when we are talking about the same victim. To say otherwise in based on an emotional appeal instead of the facts. Drama as it were since many can't assess the true seriousness of an accessory type crime without the visceral response to the primary crime in front of their eyes. But this is fine tuning and doesn't take us any farther, so we can desist if you like. And as far as "bearing guilt" for some outcome, that's totally a digression - some people feel guilt for things they had no impact on either directly or indirectly, we can't punish them for actions they didn't take. If you google "murder for hire" you will find many many examples of people being convicted of murder and even executed when someone else actually did the "hit". Hiring a hit man is not a way to avoid a murder conviction.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #27 July 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotewonder what the mindset behind these kind of incidences are.Well they should not not have signed up and the fucking recruiters should not have let them. Thank your POTUS and all his buddies. DON R. Dick the dick K. Rove, et al. Uhh... You do realize this type of shit has been going on since before war was an instituton right? Why would this generation of soldiers be any different? OHHhh I know we are in the "Information age" and we are above it. Fuck that. Humans are fucked up as it is. and a few, are even more fucked up. You want to blame it on something? Blame human nature. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #28 July 12, 2006 "Slipped through the cracks?" They're recruiting these people to make enlistment goals: Quote Bill is right, I've seen it over the last few years, more and more we've been getting sub-standard soldiers in our ranks because we need to fill all these new units being stood up. You have no idea how many more people are making it through Special Forces training than before. It pisses me off like none other. As for the soldiers in teh rape case, I hope they get hung, they are hurting us in more ways than the public realizes, more Americans are going to die because of the actions of these soldiers, and to make it all the much better in the near future I am going to become intimately familiar with the neighborhood that this happened in, which is already one of the worst in the country.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #29 July 12, 2006 "Rape & Pillage"> I think you forgot >PlunderI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #30 July 12, 2006 I don't deny any of what you are saying. However, part of it makes me smile, because in every Army all over the world Soldiers say, 'the standards have dropped, its too bloody soft now for recruits, in my day...' (However maybe they are all correct, we live in a namby pamby politicaly correct world, in my day....' When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #31 July 12, 2006 QuoteHiring a hit man is not a way to avoid a murder conviction. I'll fix it for you. "Hiring a hit man is not a way to avoid a 'solicitation to murder' conviction" The hitman gets the murder conviction. He is 100% responsible for the act of murder. Hiring a hit man is a different act, even if it carries an identical penalty. If it's called murder legally, then that's a logic fault with the system with the intent to make the acts equal in the eyes of jurors. Seems silly to manipulate juries that way when the act of hiring a hit man is even more dispicable than doing the act itself. Surely you get that. BV did, and agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,119 #32 July 12, 2006 >agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being >unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. Nice slam! Going for points today? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #33 July 12, 2006 Quote>agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being >unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. Nice slam! Going for points today? Like the rest of us, he excels at it. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #34 July 12, 2006 Quote>agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being >unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. Nice slam! Going for points today? sorry you took it that way not a slam - you insist on taking the position that (e.g.,)being guilty of accessory to murder is being guilty of murder. And you call it semantics. I understand your point and agree with what you are thinking, just not the equivalence of two very separate acts. So it's truth, and it's 'unwillingness', not 'unable'. If I said unable, that's a slam. I know you are doing it on purpose. And it's no big deal. I just responded to Kallend because he obviously didn't understand the distinction or was just being contentious as usual for the fun of it. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
GQ_jumper 4 #28 July 12, 2006 "Slipped through the cracks?" They're recruiting these people to make enlistment goals: Quote Bill is right, I've seen it over the last few years, more and more we've been getting sub-standard soldiers in our ranks because we need to fill all these new units being stood up. You have no idea how many more people are making it through Special Forces training than before. It pisses me off like none other. As for the soldiers in teh rape case, I hope they get hung, they are hurting us in more ways than the public realizes, more Americans are going to die because of the actions of these soldiers, and to make it all the much better in the near future I am going to become intimately familiar with the neighborhood that this happened in, which is already one of the worst in the country.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #29 July 12, 2006 "Rape & Pillage"> I think you forgot >PlunderI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #30 July 12, 2006 I don't deny any of what you are saying. However, part of it makes me smile, because in every Army all over the world Soldiers say, 'the standards have dropped, its too bloody soft now for recruits, in my day...' (However maybe they are all correct, we live in a namby pamby politicaly correct world, in my day....' When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #31 July 12, 2006 QuoteHiring a hit man is not a way to avoid a murder conviction. I'll fix it for you. "Hiring a hit man is not a way to avoid a 'solicitation to murder' conviction" The hitman gets the murder conviction. He is 100% responsible for the act of murder. Hiring a hit man is a different act, even if it carries an identical penalty. If it's called murder legally, then that's a logic fault with the system with the intent to make the acts equal in the eyes of jurors. Seems silly to manipulate juries that way when the act of hiring a hit man is even more dispicable than doing the act itself. Surely you get that. BV did, and agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,119 #32 July 12, 2006 >agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being >unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. Nice slam! Going for points today? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #33 July 12, 2006 Quote>agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being >unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. Nice slam! Going for points today? Like the rest of us, he excels at it. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #34 July 12, 2006 Quote>agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being >unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. Nice slam! Going for points today? sorry you took it that way not a slam - you insist on taking the position that (e.g.,)being guilty of accessory to murder is being guilty of murder. And you call it semantics. I understand your point and agree with what you are thinking, just not the equivalence of two very separate acts. So it's truth, and it's 'unwillingness', not 'unable'. If I said unable, that's a slam. I know you are doing it on purpose. And it's no big deal. I just responded to Kallend because he obviously didn't understand the distinction or was just being contentious as usual for the fun of it. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
akarunway 1 #29 July 12, 2006 "Rape & Pillage"> I think you forgot >PlunderI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #30 July 12, 2006 I don't deny any of what you are saying. However, part of it makes me smile, because in every Army all over the world Soldiers say, 'the standards have dropped, its too bloody soft now for recruits, in my day...' (However maybe they are all correct, we live in a namby pamby politicaly correct world, in my day....' When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #31 July 12, 2006 QuoteHiring a hit man is not a way to avoid a murder conviction. I'll fix it for you. "Hiring a hit man is not a way to avoid a 'solicitation to murder' conviction" The hitman gets the murder conviction. He is 100% responsible for the act of murder. Hiring a hit man is a different act, even if it carries an identical penalty. If it's called murder legally, then that's a logic fault with the system with the intent to make the acts equal in the eyes of jurors. Seems silly to manipulate juries that way when the act of hiring a hit man is even more dispicable than doing the act itself. Surely you get that. BV did, and agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #32 July 12, 2006 >agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being >unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. Nice slam! Going for points today? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #33 July 12, 2006 Quote>agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being >unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. Nice slam! Going for points today? Like the rest of us, he excels at it. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 July 12, 2006 Quote>agreed the rest was a semantics argument based on him being >unwilling to separate real acts from their related cousins. Nice slam! Going for points today? sorry you took it that way not a slam - you insist on taking the position that (e.g.,)being guilty of accessory to murder is being guilty of murder. And you call it semantics. I understand your point and agree with what you are thinking, just not the equivalence of two very separate acts. So it's truth, and it's 'unwillingness', not 'unable'. If I said unable, that's a slam. I know you are doing it on purpose. And it's no big deal. I just responded to Kallend because he obviously didn't understand the distinction or was just being contentious as usual for the fun of it. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
