Guest #1 July 3, 2006 Family members of one of the big shots sold their EADS stock right before it tumbled...I guess there is no equivalent of the SEC in Europe, or if there is, they're either not paying attention or just don't care. BAE is getting rid of its 20 percent share. Good riddance. Maybe Boeing can get them some work now. -------------------------------------------------------- PARIS (AFP) - One of the two co-chief executives of the European aerospace group EADS and the head of its Airbus subsidiary resigned Sunday over delays to deliveries of the A380 superjumbo that have wiped billions of euros off EADS's share price. ADVERTISEMENT The two companies issued terse statements announcing EADS's French co-boss Noel Forgeard and Airbus's head Gustav Humbert, a German, were stepping down. The German co-chief executive of EADS Thomas Enders stays in place. Forgeard is to be replaced by Louis Gallois, the chief of France's state-owned SNCF rail company, while Humbert is to be succeeded by Christian Streiff, a former top executive for the French industrial group Saint Gobain. "As president and chief executive of Airbus, I must take responsibility for this setback and feel the right course of action is to offer my resignation to our shareholders," Humbert said in a statement. Forgeard in particular has been under intense pressure to quit since it was revealed he sold EADS shares worth millions of euros (dollars) nearly three months before the group on June 13 announced delays in deliveries of its Airbus A380 superjumbo. The news of the delays wiped 5.5 billion euros (6.5 billion dollars) off EADS's shares and left Airbus trailing US rival Boeing. Last week, when he was questioned by a French parliamentary finance committee, Forgeard had ruled out resigning, saying: "I am competent and honest. It is out of the question." He has said he was unware of the A380 difficulties when the sales were made and insisted he acted with no "privileged information". The French government has taken a significant role in addressing the problem, a reflection of its 15 percent stake in EADS, a largely Franco-German group, and of Forgeard's one-time role as advisor to President Jacques Chirac. Forgeard, 59, jointly ran EADS with Enders, who will have hierarchical superiority over Gallois. Forgeard was named to head EADS last year, after a successful run at the helm of Airbus, and was seen as wanting to do away with the two-headed leadership of EADS -- a structure that frustrated his forthright and forceful style. Gallois, 62, who has had a long career in government and state companies, brings experience from stints in SNECMA, France's jet engine manufacturer, and in the former Aerospatiale aerospatial group. He was named to lead the SNCF in 1996. The French government said that he would be replaced by the head of Paris's main public transport operator, RATP, Anne-Marie Idrac, who herself would be replaced by Pierre Mongin the head of the cabinet of French prime minister Dominique de Villepin. Streiff, 51, rose through the ranks of Saint-Gobain, France's oldest industrial company founded 241 years ago as a glassmaker, but only got as far as second-in-command. The A380 superjumbo airliner was seen as the jewel in Airbus's crown, a 21st-century airliner designer to surpass Boeing's ageing 747. The delays, resulting from production problems, means airlines that have ordered the double-decker aircraft will have to wait six or seven months more before taking delivery -- raising the probability of them asking for hundreds of millions in euros' compensation from Airbus. EADS has said that only nine of the A380 aircraft, instead of 20-25, would be delivered in 2007, seriously affecting financial results. Airbus is to hold talks on compensation with several of its clients, notably with launch customer Singapore Airlines. EADS, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space company, currently owns 80 percent of Airbus, while BAE Systems of Britain holds 20 percent but has signed an agreement to sell this stake to EADS. The French stock market authority AMF said Forgeard, his children and a handful of other senior EADS officials also sold significant numbers of shares in March for several million euros. It said that, on March 15, Forgeard sold 162,000 EADS shares for a profit of 2.5 million euros (3.2 million dollars). A week earlier, on March 9, he had exercised an option on another three million euros in shares, but there was no record of a sale. Between March 15 and 17, Forgeard's three children, Louis, Catherine and Marie Forgeard, sold 4.1 million euros in shares. And between March 8 and 20, senior EADS executives sold 232,000 shares for an aggregate profit of 2.5 million euros."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #2 July 3, 2006 They could go to the 787 production line. They should be cranking those out here pretty soon. From what I have seen it should be a kick ass ride.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #3 July 3, 2006 QuoteHe has said he was unaware of the A380 difficulties when the sales were made and insisted he acted with no "privileged information". right. since the heads of a company know nothing about difficulties with their companies. either he's incompetent or a criminal. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #4 July 3, 2006 Quoteeither he's incompetent or a criminal. Is there a choice C-Both?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #5 July 3, 2006 QuoteFamily members of one of the big shots sold their EADS stock right before it tumbled...I guess there is no equivalent of the SEC in Europe, or if there is, they're either not paying attention or just don't care. -------------------------------------------------------- Reminds me of the time in 1997 when Fill Condom sold a huge chunk of his Boeing monopoly money the week before the first loss in fifty years was reported and the stock tanked. Boyd Givens, the CFO got busted for it, and sacked. But not old Fill, he was permitted to throw a few more of the guys (like Ron Woodard in Renton) to the sharks before the board finally wised up and sacked his ass. These guys all belong on a chain gang together, "what we have here is a failure to communicate". Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites narcimund 0 #6 July 3, 2006 QuoteFamily members of one of the big shots sold their EADS stock right before it tumbled...I guess there is no equivalent of the SEC in Europe, or if there is, they're either not paying attention or just don't care. The article says "nearly three months before". Should it be obvious to everyone that if executives sell shares then the stock goes down within three months that there's a crime being committed? How about four months? Five? What's the limit? I ask only because I want to learn more. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #7 July 4, 2006 While I think the super-jumbo is a shit-hot-idea, they should have known that the current infrastructure cannot support it. The design is sound, that's evident, the supply and logistics are not, and the size of the plane is simply too large for just about every airport out there.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #8 September 28, 2006 EADS confirms further A380 delays: http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/aw092506p3.xml They don't even know how bad the extra delays will be. The Boeing 777 flew on schedule, and was delivered on schedule. I had a little bit to do with that.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #9 September 28, 2006 Quote I had a little bit to do with that. How's the 787 coming? Look forward to working on that one once it's online.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #10 September 28, 2006 QuoteThe design is sound, that's evident, the supply and logistics are not, and the size of the plane is simply too large for just about every airport out there. Great for Cargo. International routes you pay for number of flights in and out and are limited to the number you can buy from other airlines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #11 September 28, 2006 i've said from the beginning that Boeing had the winning dog in the fight. i mean, the A380 is nice. it's big. it grabs headlines. but it's a flash in the pan. it's a shooting star that blazed for a while and is now fading. who knows, maybe airbus can save the program. but i doubt it. personally, i think boeing is going to clean up w/ the 787 and can still grab sales w/ further variants to the 747. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #12 September 28, 2006 Quotei've said from the beginning that Boeing had the winning dog in the fight. Boeing has had their fair share of issues as well. I am not sure that Airbus was ready to take such a large undertaking, but they had a good plan and a good vision. Also, boeing had issues with the 747, MD had issues with the DC/MD-10's. Big new projects have issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #13 September 28, 2006 QuoteEADS confirms further A380 delays: http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/aw092506p3.xml They don't even know how bad the extra delays will be. The Boeing 777 flew on schedule, and was delivered on schedule. I had a little bit to do with that. I was gonna update this thread with that info, but I thought it would be redundant. . Glad you stepped up. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #14 September 28, 2006 QuoteMaybe They'll Work for Boeing Now: Nahh........I bet they'll want job security. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #15 September 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteMaybe They'll Work for Boeing Now: Nahh........I bet they'll want job security. Doh! I may not have much job security here in Kosovo, but at least I'm earning a decent living compared to when I was at MSFT... mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #16 September 29, 2006 I don't see why they shouldn't just walk in and take over Boeing. that's what Harry Stonecipher and his Douglas shits did ten years ago. Of course Fill Condom was bent over and waiting, with his ass up in the air. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #17 October 4, 2006 EADS predicts 2.8B Euro shortfall, issues another profit warning Airbus to pay penalty to Singapore Airlines for late delivery mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #18 October 5, 2006 Aviation Week's article on the year-long delay: http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_comm_story.jsp?id=news/DEL10046.xml More Aviation Week, flying the A380: http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/aw100206p1.xml The delay of the A380 is due to wiring problems. The Presidential 747s were delayed many months because the unique, more complex than normal wiring bundles could not be installed at Wichita, where all the special stuff was added to the bare 747s. The bundles were so large, they were not flexible enough.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #19 October 16, 2006 The Sharks Circle Closer To Airbus http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=0ae8fa6b-d5b9-413b-8306-fe7136e0aa4e& Virgin Gives One-Week Ultimatum. Virgin Atlantic, one of Airbus's more vocally dissatisfied A380 customers, has presented the manufacturer with "new proposals" -- and given a week for a response. Virgin hasn't been coy with its displeasure over Airbus' tardiness, even saying cancelling its superjumbo aircraft order isn't out of the question. Virgin declined to provide details of the proposals, or what will happen should the week pass without a repsonse from Airbus, but industry experts believe there's little doubt Sir Richard's airline is asking for more in the way of concessions for A380 delivery delays. Airline spokesman Paul Charles told the Chicago Tribune, "We are talking with Airbus extensively. It is an important decision as to what we do." The past few months have been very bad for Airbus. The recent announcement of a third A380 program delay -- now two years behind schedule -- prompted then CEO Christian Streiff to offer parent EADS a restructuring plan. When EADS rejected the proposal, Streiff stepped down. EADS appointed its co-chairman Louis Gallois to Airbus' top spot, and he's begun a restructuring program of his own. EADS hopes Gallois' plan will be more palatable to all the political interests keenly worried over Airbus' fate -- and the fate of the jobs it provides on the continent. Meanwhile, in a bit of good news - bad news for the European planemaker, Emirates, by far its largest A380 customer with an order for 45 jets says it fully plans to take delivery of all of them. That's the good news... The bad news is Emirates, whose order is worth some $13 billion, is not really happy about it. Emirates president Tim Clark told Dow Jones Newswire "We have invested a lot in ground facilities, so we have to stick with the order for now." To fill the capacity gap resulting from A380 delivery delays, Emirates will purchase Boeing's 777-300s. As yet, the Dubai airline has not publicly announced any attempt to seek compensation from Airbus.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #20 October 29, 2006 From aero-news.net: Virgin Atlantic Defers A380 Deliveries For Four Years Says It Wants Airliner To Prove Itself First More trouble for the Airbus A380 program... as Virgin Atlantic announced Friday it will delay deliveries of its six superjumbo jets until 2013, in order to give Airbus four extra years to work out any bugs with the plane. While the news is discouraging for Airbus -- one could argue it is thinly-veiled criticism of Airbus's ability to deliver a trouble-free plane to early customers -- it is also something of a win for the European planemaker. There was speculation Virgin would cancel its orders outright, after what had originally been reported to the carrier as a six-month delay in the delivery of the first A380 in Virgin colors grew to 22 months. The BBC reports the airline says it still has confidence in the A380... but it wants the plane to prove itself in commercial service for several years before it puts its own A380s into service. Virgin Atlantic will extend leases on a number of Boeing 747-400s to cover for the delay. Virgin is the first airline to reach an agreement with Airbus on compensation or other arrangements after the latest delay to the A380 program was announced last month. Other airlines affected by the delays -- most notably Emirates, the largest A380 customer with 43 planes ordered -- are still locked in talks with Airbus... and have threatened to cancel their orders outright.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #21 October 29, 2006 If Boeing stay on track with 787, I think that will seal the fate of the A380. It won't sink Airbus, as they're government run, but it pretty much means they'll have no new product to offer down the line for what...6-10 years (A350 right?)?? The A350 is in the middle of a complete redesign right?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #22 October 29, 2006 QuoteFrom aero-news.net: Virgin Atlantic Defers A380 Deliveries For Four Years Says It Wants Airliner To Prove Itself First More trouble for the Airbus A380 program... as Virgin Atlantic announced Friday it will delay deliveries of its six superjumbo jets until 2013, in order to give Airbus four extra years to work out any bugs with the plane. While the news is discouraging for Airbus -- one could argue it is thinly-veiled criticism of Airbus's ability to deliver a trouble-free plane to early customers -- it is also something of a win for the European planemaker. There was speculation Virgin would cancel its orders outright, after what had originally been reported to the carrier as a six-month delay in the delivery of the first A380 in Virgin colors grew to 22 months. The BBC reports the airline says it still has confidence in the A380... but it wants the plane to prove itself in commercial service for several years before it puts its own A380s into service. Virgin Atlantic will extend leases on a number of Boeing 747-400s to cover for the delay. Virgin is the first airline to reach an agreement with Airbus on compensation or other arrangements after the latest delay to the A380 program was announced last month. Other airlines affected by the delays -- most notably Emirates, the largest A380 customer with 43 planes ordered -- are still locked in talks with Airbus... and have threatened to cancel their orders outright. You guys need to take a deep breath.. http://en.carnoc.com/list/1/1294.html EDIT: to add the following link. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBN_NV6ffCk0&refer=home Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #23 October 29, 2006 Well, if Emirates cancels its order, and Virgin does too, then Airbus should be able to fill Qantas' order fairly easily...if late. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #24 October 29, 2006 QuoteWell, if Emirates cancels its order, and Virgin does too, then Airbus should be able to fill Qantas' order fairly easily...if late. I'd be extremely surprised if Emirates cancel their order. They need the planes. They've ordered 45 of them. What they're doing right now, is stepping on Airbus's toes, so they can get a better package deal, to compensate for the delay. Pure business negociations IMHO. Yves Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #25 October 29, 2006 Qantas likely got a really good price for those extra planes. I think the A380 will be a fairly good plane that is a financial dud. More successful than the Concorde, but still an economic loser. Boeing made a good decision when they dropped their supersonic airliner development, while France and Britain continued with theirs for the sake of national pride. National Pride, that is one big thing that Airbus has got against them. So many governments competing for prestige and a greater piece of the glamorous parts of the assembly process. Boeing would be in a much worse condition if every decision were subject to cross border squabbles by elected officials. I have a few issues with the Airbus cockpit (this applies to all of their fly-by-wire planes A320/A330/A340 series also, things that I think are a bad idea for a commercial airliner): 1) The sidestick controllers They give no feedback when the autopilot is flying - no movement. I think that seeing the control column/wheel move is a great way for the pilot to know what the autopilot is trying to do. There is also no force feedback as you try to make the plane do more severe maneuvers. When a pilot moves from right to left seat, they have to 'train' their other arm/hand to use the sidestick controller (it is on the outboard side). I think this is inherently a bad idea, for a commercial airliner. The sidestick controllers are not linked, so when one pilot is flying, the other stick does not move. So what happens if both are trying to fly? There is software logic that decides this, and it is indicated which side is in control with an indicator light, and the pilots can override/take command on their side with the push of a switch. The thought of the logic not working and the pilots pushing buttons to take command is not comforting to me. 2) The autothrottle They do not move in the normal mode, meaning that as the autopilot adjusts power, the handles stay in one position. You can see by instruments what it is trying to do, but not by movement of the big handles. In the normal mode, it is just a big rotary switch. Again, I think seeing the throttles move is a great way for the pilot to know what the autopilot/autothrottle system is trying to do. 3) Envelope protection/limiting (fancy term for the computer doesn't let you do stupid maneuvers or overstress the plane) I don't think it is a good idea to have the fly-by-wire system prevent the pilot from putting too much stress on the plane. We are talking about a airliner, not a fighter. The pilots will never overstress it just for practice. If they need to go beyond the design structural limits to try to get out of a dive, for instance, then I say they should be allowed to try. Airbus was so confident of their 'envelope protection' that it caused a crash of an A330 many years ago. An airline CEO and top pilot were being treated to a demonstration flight. Airbus decided to impress them with how the plane could not be made to stall, so they planned to take off very aggressively and immediately idle one engine and turn off one of the hydraulic systems. However the flight control engineers had never figured on such an aggressive, very high pitch rate climb being combined with the other 'failures', and the plane could not stop the stall. They ran out of altitude. The investigation found fault in how the Airbus pilots decided to create their own scenario during the pre flight briefing that would impress the customer, completely confident that the plane could not be stalled (as they had been claiming). This incident received much less attention than the crash of the A320 at the Paris air show because no normal passengers were on board. The Boeing fly by wire system on the 777 still uses a traditional control column/wheel. There are some distinct advantages to the sidesticks, such as reduced weight, and much more room in front of the pilot for a worktable to use maps/manuals/etc, It was tempting, however Boeing decided that it was a bad tradeoff overall. Boeing also decided that strict envelope protection was a bad idea, and that increasing force feedback (it is 'artificial') was a better way of preventing pilots from doing stupid things while not limiting their ability to fly the plane how they see fit. Both Boeing and Airbus have a switch on the overhead console that puts them into a 'direct' mode that cuts out the complex flight control logic and uses separate/simpler software that results in a less 'refined' feeling for the pilot. This requires time to activate it, and I would rather the pilots have complete control to try what they want without having to look up and back to activate a switch first. It probably will not surprise you to learn that I used to be an engineer for Boeing in their flight deck group during the development of the 777, hence the 777 in my username. Of couse Boeing has had problems, such as 737 rudder reversals, 747 cargo door latches, and uncommanded 767 thrust reversals. However, I think their choice on the column over the sidestick controller, and the flight control logic are examples of interesting, and important points of discussion.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
narcimund 0 #6 July 3, 2006 QuoteFamily members of one of the big shots sold their EADS stock right before it tumbled...I guess there is no equivalent of the SEC in Europe, or if there is, they're either not paying attention or just don't care. The article says "nearly three months before". Should it be obvious to everyone that if executives sell shares then the stock goes down within three months that there's a crime being committed? How about four months? Five? What's the limit? I ask only because I want to learn more. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #7 July 4, 2006 While I think the super-jumbo is a shit-hot-idea, they should have known that the current infrastructure cannot support it. The design is sound, that's evident, the supply and logistics are not, and the size of the plane is simply too large for just about every airport out there.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #8 September 28, 2006 EADS confirms further A380 delays: http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/aw092506p3.xml They don't even know how bad the extra delays will be. The Boeing 777 flew on schedule, and was delivered on schedule. I had a little bit to do with that.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #9 September 28, 2006 Quote I had a little bit to do with that. How's the 787 coming? Look forward to working on that one once it's online.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #10 September 28, 2006 QuoteThe design is sound, that's evident, the supply and logistics are not, and the size of the plane is simply too large for just about every airport out there. Great for Cargo. International routes you pay for number of flights in and out and are limited to the number you can buy from other airlines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #11 September 28, 2006 i've said from the beginning that Boeing had the winning dog in the fight. i mean, the A380 is nice. it's big. it grabs headlines. but it's a flash in the pan. it's a shooting star that blazed for a while and is now fading. who knows, maybe airbus can save the program. but i doubt it. personally, i think boeing is going to clean up w/ the 787 and can still grab sales w/ further variants to the 747. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #12 September 28, 2006 Quotei've said from the beginning that Boeing had the winning dog in the fight. Boeing has had their fair share of issues as well. I am not sure that Airbus was ready to take such a large undertaking, but they had a good plan and a good vision. Also, boeing had issues with the 747, MD had issues with the DC/MD-10's. Big new projects have issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #13 September 28, 2006 QuoteEADS confirms further A380 delays: http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/aw092506p3.xml They don't even know how bad the extra delays will be. The Boeing 777 flew on schedule, and was delivered on schedule. I had a little bit to do with that. I was gonna update this thread with that info, but I thought it would be redundant. . Glad you stepped up. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #14 September 28, 2006 QuoteMaybe They'll Work for Boeing Now: Nahh........I bet they'll want job security. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #15 September 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteMaybe They'll Work for Boeing Now: Nahh........I bet they'll want job security. Doh! I may not have much job security here in Kosovo, but at least I'm earning a decent living compared to when I was at MSFT... mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #16 September 29, 2006 I don't see why they shouldn't just walk in and take over Boeing. that's what Harry Stonecipher and his Douglas shits did ten years ago. Of course Fill Condom was bent over and waiting, with his ass up in the air. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #17 October 4, 2006 EADS predicts 2.8B Euro shortfall, issues another profit warning Airbus to pay penalty to Singapore Airlines for late delivery mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #18 October 5, 2006 Aviation Week's article on the year-long delay: http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_comm_story.jsp?id=news/DEL10046.xml More Aviation Week, flying the A380: http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/aw100206p1.xml The delay of the A380 is due to wiring problems. The Presidential 747s were delayed many months because the unique, more complex than normal wiring bundles could not be installed at Wichita, where all the special stuff was added to the bare 747s. The bundles were so large, they were not flexible enough.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #19 October 16, 2006 The Sharks Circle Closer To Airbus http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=0ae8fa6b-d5b9-413b-8306-fe7136e0aa4e& Virgin Gives One-Week Ultimatum. Virgin Atlantic, one of Airbus's more vocally dissatisfied A380 customers, has presented the manufacturer with "new proposals" -- and given a week for a response. Virgin hasn't been coy with its displeasure over Airbus' tardiness, even saying cancelling its superjumbo aircraft order isn't out of the question. Virgin declined to provide details of the proposals, or what will happen should the week pass without a repsonse from Airbus, but industry experts believe there's little doubt Sir Richard's airline is asking for more in the way of concessions for A380 delivery delays. Airline spokesman Paul Charles told the Chicago Tribune, "We are talking with Airbus extensively. It is an important decision as to what we do." The past few months have been very bad for Airbus. The recent announcement of a third A380 program delay -- now two years behind schedule -- prompted then CEO Christian Streiff to offer parent EADS a restructuring plan. When EADS rejected the proposal, Streiff stepped down. EADS appointed its co-chairman Louis Gallois to Airbus' top spot, and he's begun a restructuring program of his own. EADS hopes Gallois' plan will be more palatable to all the political interests keenly worried over Airbus' fate -- and the fate of the jobs it provides on the continent. Meanwhile, in a bit of good news - bad news for the European planemaker, Emirates, by far its largest A380 customer with an order for 45 jets says it fully plans to take delivery of all of them. That's the good news... The bad news is Emirates, whose order is worth some $13 billion, is not really happy about it. Emirates president Tim Clark told Dow Jones Newswire "We have invested a lot in ground facilities, so we have to stick with the order for now." To fill the capacity gap resulting from A380 delivery delays, Emirates will purchase Boeing's 777-300s. As yet, the Dubai airline has not publicly announced any attempt to seek compensation from Airbus.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #20 October 29, 2006 From aero-news.net: Virgin Atlantic Defers A380 Deliveries For Four Years Says It Wants Airliner To Prove Itself First More trouble for the Airbus A380 program... as Virgin Atlantic announced Friday it will delay deliveries of its six superjumbo jets until 2013, in order to give Airbus four extra years to work out any bugs with the plane. While the news is discouraging for Airbus -- one could argue it is thinly-veiled criticism of Airbus's ability to deliver a trouble-free plane to early customers -- it is also something of a win for the European planemaker. There was speculation Virgin would cancel its orders outright, after what had originally been reported to the carrier as a six-month delay in the delivery of the first A380 in Virgin colors grew to 22 months. The BBC reports the airline says it still has confidence in the A380... but it wants the plane to prove itself in commercial service for several years before it puts its own A380s into service. Virgin Atlantic will extend leases on a number of Boeing 747-400s to cover for the delay. Virgin is the first airline to reach an agreement with Airbus on compensation or other arrangements after the latest delay to the A380 program was announced last month. Other airlines affected by the delays -- most notably Emirates, the largest A380 customer with 43 planes ordered -- are still locked in talks with Airbus... and have threatened to cancel their orders outright.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #21 October 29, 2006 If Boeing stay on track with 787, I think that will seal the fate of the A380. It won't sink Airbus, as they're government run, but it pretty much means they'll have no new product to offer down the line for what...6-10 years (A350 right?)?? The A350 is in the middle of a complete redesign right?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #22 October 29, 2006 QuoteFrom aero-news.net: Virgin Atlantic Defers A380 Deliveries For Four Years Says It Wants Airliner To Prove Itself First More trouble for the Airbus A380 program... as Virgin Atlantic announced Friday it will delay deliveries of its six superjumbo jets until 2013, in order to give Airbus four extra years to work out any bugs with the plane. While the news is discouraging for Airbus -- one could argue it is thinly-veiled criticism of Airbus's ability to deliver a trouble-free plane to early customers -- it is also something of a win for the European planemaker. There was speculation Virgin would cancel its orders outright, after what had originally been reported to the carrier as a six-month delay in the delivery of the first A380 in Virgin colors grew to 22 months. The BBC reports the airline says it still has confidence in the A380... but it wants the plane to prove itself in commercial service for several years before it puts its own A380s into service. Virgin Atlantic will extend leases on a number of Boeing 747-400s to cover for the delay. Virgin is the first airline to reach an agreement with Airbus on compensation or other arrangements after the latest delay to the A380 program was announced last month. Other airlines affected by the delays -- most notably Emirates, the largest A380 customer with 43 planes ordered -- are still locked in talks with Airbus... and have threatened to cancel their orders outright. You guys need to take a deep breath.. http://en.carnoc.com/list/1/1294.html EDIT: to add the following link. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBN_NV6ffCk0&refer=home Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #23 October 29, 2006 Well, if Emirates cancels its order, and Virgin does too, then Airbus should be able to fill Qantas' order fairly easily...if late. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #24 October 29, 2006 QuoteWell, if Emirates cancels its order, and Virgin does too, then Airbus should be able to fill Qantas' order fairly easily...if late. I'd be extremely surprised if Emirates cancel their order. They need the planes. They've ordered 45 of them. What they're doing right now, is stepping on Airbus's toes, so they can get a better package deal, to compensate for the delay. Pure business negociations IMHO. Yves Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #25 October 29, 2006 Qantas likely got a really good price for those extra planes. I think the A380 will be a fairly good plane that is a financial dud. More successful than the Concorde, but still an economic loser. Boeing made a good decision when they dropped their supersonic airliner development, while France and Britain continued with theirs for the sake of national pride. National Pride, that is one big thing that Airbus has got against them. So many governments competing for prestige and a greater piece of the glamorous parts of the assembly process. Boeing would be in a much worse condition if every decision were subject to cross border squabbles by elected officials. I have a few issues with the Airbus cockpit (this applies to all of their fly-by-wire planes A320/A330/A340 series also, things that I think are a bad idea for a commercial airliner): 1) The sidestick controllers They give no feedback when the autopilot is flying - no movement. I think that seeing the control column/wheel move is a great way for the pilot to know what the autopilot is trying to do. There is also no force feedback as you try to make the plane do more severe maneuvers. When a pilot moves from right to left seat, they have to 'train' their other arm/hand to use the sidestick controller (it is on the outboard side). I think this is inherently a bad idea, for a commercial airliner. The sidestick controllers are not linked, so when one pilot is flying, the other stick does not move. So what happens if both are trying to fly? There is software logic that decides this, and it is indicated which side is in control with an indicator light, and the pilots can override/take command on their side with the push of a switch. The thought of the logic not working and the pilots pushing buttons to take command is not comforting to me. 2) The autothrottle They do not move in the normal mode, meaning that as the autopilot adjusts power, the handles stay in one position. You can see by instruments what it is trying to do, but not by movement of the big handles. In the normal mode, it is just a big rotary switch. Again, I think seeing the throttles move is a great way for the pilot to know what the autopilot/autothrottle system is trying to do. 3) Envelope protection/limiting (fancy term for the computer doesn't let you do stupid maneuvers or overstress the plane) I don't think it is a good idea to have the fly-by-wire system prevent the pilot from putting too much stress on the plane. We are talking about a airliner, not a fighter. The pilots will never overstress it just for practice. If they need to go beyond the design structural limits to try to get out of a dive, for instance, then I say they should be allowed to try. Airbus was so confident of their 'envelope protection' that it caused a crash of an A330 many years ago. An airline CEO and top pilot were being treated to a demonstration flight. Airbus decided to impress them with how the plane could not be made to stall, so they planned to take off very aggressively and immediately idle one engine and turn off one of the hydraulic systems. However the flight control engineers had never figured on such an aggressive, very high pitch rate climb being combined with the other 'failures', and the plane could not stop the stall. They ran out of altitude. The investigation found fault in how the Airbus pilots decided to create their own scenario during the pre flight briefing that would impress the customer, completely confident that the plane could not be stalled (as they had been claiming). This incident received much less attention than the crash of the A320 at the Paris air show because no normal passengers were on board. The Boeing fly by wire system on the 777 still uses a traditional control column/wheel. There are some distinct advantages to the sidesticks, such as reduced weight, and much more room in front of the pilot for a worktable to use maps/manuals/etc, It was tempting, however Boeing decided that it was a bad tradeoff overall. Boeing also decided that strict envelope protection was a bad idea, and that increasing force feedback (it is 'artificial') was a better way of preventing pilots from doing stupid things while not limiting their ability to fly the plane how they see fit. Both Boeing and Airbus have a switch on the overhead console that puts them into a 'direct' mode that cuts out the complex flight control logic and uses separate/simpler software that results in a less 'refined' feeling for the pilot. This requires time to activate it, and I would rather the pilots have complete control to try what they want without having to look up and back to activate a switch first. It probably will not surprise you to learn that I used to be an engineer for Boeing in their flight deck group during the development of the 777, hence the 777 in my username. Of couse Boeing has had problems, such as 737 rudder reversals, 747 cargo door latches, and uncommanded 767 thrust reversals. However, I think their choice on the column over the sidestick controller, and the flight control logic are examples of interesting, and important points of discussion.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
