New evidence suggests a 1989 execution in Texas was a case of mistaken identity.

[Nightingale 0]

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Death penalty cases are automatically appealed to the US Sup Ct, so that standard is applied, not a state standard.

No. They're not. Usually, death penalty cases are entitled to one automatic appeal, but that certainly isn't to the US Supreme Court. The usual process is outlined below. What I've posted isn't accurate for every state, but in most cases the processes are similar, so it'll give you a good idea of the process.


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Phase 1: Direct Appeal

Unless it's a federal death penalty case, the appeal is to the court of appeal in that state (some states, such as Washington, California, and Virginia, allow for skipping this step and appealing directly to the state supreme court).

After that, they can then appeal to the state supreme court. On their direct appeal, they can appeal to the US Supreme Court after appeal to the state supreme court. The Supreme Court only hears 1-2% of the cases brought to it, so granting certiorari is rare. Appellants are limited as to the grounds on which they may appeal during the automatic appeal process.

Phase 2: Post-Conviction Relief

If direct appeal is unsuccessful, or the supreme court doesn't grant certiorari (doesn't agree to hear the appeal), they can then go to state habeas corpus proceedings, which allows for the hearing of broader issues than originally permitted in the automatic appeal. They can raise claims based on facts outside the trial record, for example, such as ineffective assistance of appellate counsel, or claims that could not have been raised on direct appeal. If the state courts deny the appeal, the appellant may again ask the US Supreme Court for certiorari, which, again, is usually not granted.

Phase 3: Federal Habeas Corpus Proceedings

After exhausting their state appeals, they may petition for habeas corpus to the federal district court. To even get into the federal system at all, the petitioner must allege that the state is violating some federally protected right of the petitioner, such as due process, protection from cruel and unusual punishment, etc.

After the district court, they may appeal to the circuit court, and finally, after that, they can appeal to the US Supreme Court, which may or may not grant certiorari and hear the case.
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It is NEVER guaranteed that a death penalty case will be heard by the US Supreme Court.

[Amazon 7]

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So 6 years of appeals, due process and further action that is taken for people that are given the death penalty is all bunk, but by god an investigation undertaken by a newspaper is gospel?

Dave....I have to ask you.. how would you feel if you as an officer was instrumental in arresting the wrong person and he was put to death later and THEN the truth came out?

Are your investigative skills infallaible?

[AggieDave 6]

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Some people have a naive belief in the infallibility of the criminal justice system, when the facts show that it makes a lot of mistakes.

Never once said that the system is perfect. Just that your source of a newspaper's investigation isn't necissarily the most righteous of sources.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Nightingale 0]

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Some people have a naive belief in the infallibility of the criminal justice system, when the facts show that it makes a lot of mistakes.

Never once said that the system is perfect. Just that your source of a newspaper's investigation isn't necissarily the most righteous of sources.

Well, since oftentimes the sources used by the police are criminals, I wouldn't call them the most righteous of sources either. In fact, the newspaper is probably the only party involved that is even close to impartial. The cops are under pressure to arrest someone because the public wants to know someone answered for the crime, and the cops are under a microscope of public opinion until they provide a responsible party. The prosecutors are under pressure from public opinion as well as from their superiors, as prosecutors are heavily graded on their conviction rate. Police informants are often acting out of their own self interest to keep themselves out of trouble. The newspaper, on the other hand, will probably sell about the same amount of copies whether they run the story or not.

[Shotgun 1]

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I've never had an overall problem with the Post Office. Although they occasional have a problem with an occasional instance of missing or lost mail from the Post Office, I don't believe that overall there is a serious problem (besides the price of stamps).

Funny, we were just discussing this last night - the incompetence of our local post office. I have complained to the manager there before, but it made no difference. Anyhow, not trying to hijack the thread, but the mail system out here does suck pretty bad. (Maybe it's a California thing; I never had this problem in Texas. )

[micro 0]

It is an absolute travesty that an innocent human being was put to death for some thing they did not do. There should be a moratorium on capital punishment for just this reason alone.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[Channman 2]

> There should be a moratorium on capital punishment for just this reason alone.

Na, we'll get it right next time.

[miked10270 0]

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> There should be a moratorium on capital punishment for just this reason alone.

Na, we'll get it right next time.

Yeah... In that case, it's fine.

Besides, the guy you execute has maybe done some other stuff... Stuff he's not been caught for... So... It's like... Karma!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[78RATS 0]

On the issue of Deterrence:

In Texas, Murder is intentionally causing the death of an individual. The punishment range is 5-99 years or life. The death penalty is not an option.

Capital Murder is murder plus something else (murder of police officer, murder while committing rape or kidnapping, murder of more than one person in same episode, ect.). The penalty range for capital murder is either life or death.

The death penalty is only available to a certain class of crimes. It is intended to protect the rape victim from being murdered to eliminate the eyewitness, or to protect the police officer who is the lawful discharge of his official duties, or to protect the child under 6 years old, etc.

In addition, in the punishment phase of a capital trial in Texas, the State has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant would probably commit criminal acts of violence that would constitute a continuing threat to society. Since the convicted defendant's "society" is now gonna be prison, the State has to prove BRD that the defendant would be dangerous in prison before the death penalty could be imposed.

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[jakee 1,610]

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The death penalty is only available to a certain class of crimes. It is intended to protect the rape victim from being murdered to eliminate the eyewitness, or to protect the police officer who is the lawful discharge of his official duties, or to protect the child under 6 years old, etc.

That makes no sense.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[78RATS 0]

Okay.

Let's assume you are a bad ass criminal. You just got out of prison and you are on the prowl. You find a fine young thing, kidnap her, and rape her.

Under Texas law, you are facing life in prison for the first degree felonies of rape and kidnapping.

If there is no increased penalty for murdering her, why not eliminate the witness?

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Okay.

Let's assume you are a bad ass criminal. You just got out of prison and you are on the prowl. You find a fine young thing, kidnap her, and rape her.

Under Texas law, you are facing life in prison for the first degree felonies of rape and kidnapping.

If there is no increased penalty for murdering her, why not eliminate the witness?

My guess is that the person who is willing to kidnap and rape a young girl is probably not too concerned about the possible punshments he might face if he kills her too (particularly if he just got out of jail and is, as you say, a "bad ass criminal".

He is either going to do it or he isn't. I have a strong feeling that there are very few capable sociopaths who don't commit crimes because they fear the death penalty.

Just my opinion though.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[jakee 1,610]

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Let's assume you are a bad ass criminal. You just got out of prison and you are on the prowl. You find a fine young thing, kidnap her, and rape her.

Under Texas law, you are facing life in prison for the first degree felonies of rape and kidnapping.

If there is no increased penalty for murdering her, why not eliminate the witness?

Oh right, gotcha. I was reading your post wrong - my apologies.

Its an interesting rational for capital punishment, personally I still don't think the risks of executing an innocent are (or can be) outweighed by the percieved benefits.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Zee 0]

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Okay.

Let's assume you are a bad ass criminal. You just got out of prison and you are on the prowl. You find a fine young thing, kidnap her, and rape her.

Under Texas law, you are facing life in prison for the first degree felonies of rape and kidnapping.

If there is no increased penalty for murdering her, why not eliminate the witness?

Here's a long list of people who were convicted, sentenced to death, and later released - it's a pretty long list. Has to make you wonder.....

I know better than to argue law with you of all people but, do you honestly think this "bad ass criminal" is contemplating the penalties of his actions as he raping this fine young thing?

I don't know where to stand on this cuz personally, I think they're letting these guys off easy when they give'em a shot in the arm.

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