Controversial Billboard: Casa D'Ice

[billvon 3,118]

>For the others, I agree they can be 'effective' in a Machiavellian way.
>I just think they are petty and childish and indirect and, frankly, a bit
>cowardly and anonymous way to 'express' your politics.

I just don't get this. Would you patronize a bar that had a sign out front that said "no blacks?" (or pick your own politically-offensive policy.) If you preferred to go to another restaraunt that had a less offensive policy, would that make you a coward? I mean, it sure wouldn't make the food any better at the whites-only restaraunt, but that wouldn't be the point.

[miked10270 0]

Quote

>since he keeps going on about English.

Especially funny from someone whose bar has a Spanish name.

Isn't it Italian? I understand that he's an Italian immigrant. One who's actually embraced the American Culture() Having come to America, he's embraced the concept of being American. I bet he even owns a pair of Burberry-Check trousers!

In the meantime, he's hit on this superb advertising scheme which makes him the best known, most discussed restaurant in America! You almost wonder if he sends his employees out to truck-stops with tape recorders and picks the juiciest ones out of overheard conversations!?

I wonder what the introduction of these signs has done to his business turnover. He's certainly getting folk to talk about his restaurant, and, if I were ever in the area, I'd probably dine there out of curiosity and because it's the restaurant I'd heard of.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>I just don't get this.

I agree, you certainly "won't".

It's about directness vs 'nuanced self righteousness'. Some people just can't get their heads out of the second bit far enough to cut up issues into real and root cause and effect. Or they refuse to. And some are so stuck on what they are trying to misrepresent, that they don't take the time to understand what they are really reading.

I'm finished.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,595]

Quote

I agree, you certainly "won't".

It's about directness vs 'nuanced self righteousness'. Some people just can't get their heads out of the second bit far enough to cut up issues into real and root cause and effect. Or they refuse to. And some are so stuck on what they are trying to misrepresent, that they don't take the time to understand what they are really reading.

Just one more thought, the guy isn't just expressing his views, he is doing it in a way that is intended to make some people uncomfortable and to piss some people off (camel jockeys, tough shit etc.). When you go out of your way to make prospective customers uncomfortable can you blame them if they choose to eat elsewhere?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Just one more thought, the guy isn't just expressing his views, he is doing it in a way that is intended to make some people uncomfortable and to piss some people off (camel jockeys, tough shit etc.). When you go out of your way to make prospective customers uncomfortable can you blame them if they choose to eat elsewhere?

You have good points. I'm sure he's generating plenty of business with this (IMHO) marketing technique.

If a customer is 'uncomfortable' just from reading a sign, then they certainly should; stay away from that place, get some counseling, and maybe a life.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,595]

Quote

If a customer is 'uncomfortable' just from reading a sign, then they certainly should; stay away from that place, get some counseling, and maybe a life.

Maybe.

An arabic person who's just read a sign saying 'Piss on the camel jockeys, leave bombs for them to kill themselves' might have a different view.

Me, I'd boycott it for the appalling grammar and speling

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,118]

>If a customer is 'uncomfortable' just from reading a sign, then they
> certainly should; stay away from that place, get some counseling,
> and maybe a life.

Would you patronize a place that had a "whites only" (or choose a similar sign) outside?

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Would you patronize a place that had a "whites only" (or choose a similar sign) outside?

It's 2 issues, one of which is moot.

1 - The sign - I'd confront the owner directly in discussion. Is he serious? Does he think that's funny? is it an inside joke? Maybe he's just not too bright. Is the "White's" a local baseball team or a family name and it's a family reunion? This is directly dealing with the issue, peacefully and in person. If he's a pisshead after that, sure, I avoid the place. (Or, maybe I just don't like hamburgers that much to care)

2 - Eat at this restaurant - it's really not the real issue, is it? I'd rather take direct action than the anonymous pissing. The patronage is not really the point we'd like to fix, is it? My way, maybe we understand each other, or maybe I find out he's real shithead, maybe he learns something. Your way, just rather run him out of business in an anonymous way, maybe burn his house down and run him out of town while we're at it. As long as you don't have to look him in the eye, I guess it's ok.

Look if you aren't getting my point before, don't sweat it. This is a complete diversion now and you are angling to make a very unflattering comment about me, and I don't appreciate it. It's the only reason I'm still replying here as I don't want to leave your horrible inference sitting there.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,118]

>If he's a pisshead after that, sure, I avoid the place.

So would I - even though that wouldn't make the food better. Why? Because I disagree with his politics, and I don't want to support someone like that.

In the case here, I wouldn't care much about the sign. If he started making a lot of comments about towelheads, hajis, sand niggers etc I might ask him about what he meant, or look to see if he had a website that _said_ what he meant, or see if there were any stories in a local paper that had a statement by him. And if his position was "I hate those stinking arabs" then I'd probably avoid the place, because I don't want to support someone like that. Even if it didn't make the food better. I'd prefer that someone else have my money.

I suspect, from your statement above, that you would feel a similar way. I don't think that makes either of us childish, petty cowards.

>As long as you don't have to look him in the eye, I guess it's ok.

I don't see what that has to do with anything. What matters is what he believes and whether I agree with it or not (and how strongly I disagree with him.) The degree of confrontation isn't the issue.

>maybe burn his house down . . .

I am sure you see the difference between deciding not to support someone financially and committing arson.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Your way, just rather run him out of business in an anonymous way, maybe burn his house down and run him out of town while we're at it.

Why do you keep comparing avoiding someone's restaurant to committing criminal acts? Makes no sense...

If a business owner chooses a poor method of advertising and goes out of business because of it, there is only one person to blame - the owner.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Why do you keep

because the degree of confrontation relates strongly on a predisposition towards mob mentality vs individualism, extend those two thoughts to social structures and even political extremes if you'd like. Anonymous actions are self serving and add little value other than self congratulation. Direct conflict is true activism and can cause good, or at least change. (I have no issue with people patting themselves on the back, only issues with them pretending it's doing any good)

{{let's separate the above from those that just read the sign, get ticked off, and just go away i.e., your positions - I respect that too. It's only when people harp that when they do this they think they are doing it for a higher cause - then the obviously response is - instead of pretending, go do something more tangible.....}}

the basic premise to rely on the first has terrible long term social implications and is more and more frequently being masked/rationalized in various ways in our society

yes, I'm stretching to make that point, and no one really is going there in these responses, they keep getting bogged down on the obvious stuff about the restaurant. And poor advertising resulting in loss of business is the best market based point made so far (outside of neat PMs I've gotten from some really thoughtful people). Your point can be thought that political speech is also a marketing tool which can be leveraged for profit or loss. At least in this instance it has finally found a use other than just division.

But it's a fun discussion. I just wanted to see which 'types' glitched on the conversation and which were able to get the underlying point - you'd be very surprised. Thanks for playing and the great comments.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Anonymous actions are self serving and add little value other than self congratulation.

this describes voting quite well. Individually, voting adds no value. I've seen local elections decided by 10 votes. I've yet to see decided by one vote.

Collectively, voting matters. And so do many other actions we choose to do individually.

And I have more respect for people that quietly act out their beliefs, than those who make a big fuss and try to cajole the rest of us to follow, only to show great hyprocrisy (see Rosie on gun control).

[rehmwa 2]

good point - as is the anonymous action of charity

and voting and charity are positive responses, whereas protest is usually subjective and frankly based on a negative response to a normally subjective input stimulus.

can I change the phrase "anonymous actions" to "anonymous protest"? It's more of what I was talking about

but, anyway, I was done with this thread

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,595]

Quote

and voting and charity are positive responses, whereas protest is usually subjective and frankly based on a negative response to a normally subjective input stimulus.

Say what?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Quote

and voting and charity are positive responses, whereas protest is usually subjective and frankly based on a negative response to a normally subjective input stimulus.

Say what?

"Homer, we're going to cut open your chest and tinker with your ticker"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants