shaiziel 0 #76 June 16, 2006 "With us or against us." I'm not against America. I'm against America becoming what asshats like those who take this sort of position would have it become. A seperatist nation that starves itself and it's people to "stay the course" which put them there.---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #77 June 16, 2006 QuoteLet's face it. The America we have grown up in prior to 2000 is waning. A lot of problems we're experiencing were started long before then but they are coming to a head now. Economically, while Bush spins up fantasies of "improvement", we are actually teetering on the brink of devastation. Our currency becomes more devalued by the day as our trade deficit rises by the day. The lifestyle we live is perpetuated by borrowing from the same people we're buying from. This cycle and all of it's positive side effects will come to an end as countries pull the plug on lending to us and transfer their currency allegiance to more solid ground, namely, the euro. I read a book that referred to America as "the world's glorious beggar." We are becoming the poor man wearing silk. Obviously this won't continue as our debts come due and we struggle to pay them off without having a real production/export orientation to our economy. We are dying economically. Socially, the future is just as grim, but much more subtle. The Constitution, the foundation upon which this country was founded, is in more danger now than it has ever been. We are stuck under a false pretense that we should be fighting a war on terror. The Republicans believe we never will truly win, the Democrats believe absolution is possible, but it doesn't matter. We will never truly win, and there will be no absolution, but yet we are still pouring our last resources (most of which are borrowed) into a wet dream of a war that will serve nothing more than a carrot guiding a horse off a cliff. It will be the long slow death nail of the way of life we once knew. Hell, the way of life we once knew is already gone. You can blame it on 9/11 if you'd like, but not everything about where we are now, as compared to where we were prior to those events, is NOT the direct result of said events. But it doesn't matter. Times are changing and honestly, the cards we're holding does not look good. I don't hate America. I don't hate Republicans or Democrats. I don't hate Iraqis or Iranians. I simply don't like what we've become. I'm not pointing blame. A lot of different variables influenced by a lot of different places of a accountability have contributed to our position today. Honestly, I'm looking elsewhere for my future. I don't know where I can go or what I can do to facilitate my well-being when I get there. But I do feel that if I want to do what's best for me, I probably shouldn't stick around here too much into the future. Guess it's about time I should learn a new language and get ready to become the humble immigrant. Anyone else feel like they want to get out? Our currency becoming more and more devalued has little to do with Bush. Just so you know... If our economy goes down, so does the rest of the world. Same thing if there were huge economic problems in europe. Our economies are intertwined... We can borrow all we want.. Our buddies will keep us afloat. We're dying economically? Yeah dying to get a big mac while I'm pumping gas in my cadillac. You sir dont know what you are talking about. If you want to go.. Go... Europe is a nice place... Have fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #78 June 16, 2006 Quote"With us or against us." "Deadwood". . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shaiziel 0 #79 June 16, 2006 It's not just Bush or the Republican party's fault. It's the entire government for the past couple decades fault. It's human natures fault. It is the fault of success. It is the natural progression of an empire. History shows it to be true. This is the same story, different telling. (and more elaborate at that).---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #80 June 16, 2006 History shows that there's always someone saying the sky is falling. We were supposed to have spent/polluted/starved/nuked ourselves to death by the year 2000 probably 20 times over. edited to add: I cant' tell how old you are, so I don't know if you remember the 70's & 80s during the cold war & general pessimism about the economy, energy, & the environment. we were SURE we & the USSR would have nuked each other by 2000 AD. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shaiziel 0 #81 June 16, 2006 And the Roman Empire, and all Empires before and since then show that sometimes... the sky does fall. Even on the really big empires. If you don't believe we are an empire, you are sadly mistaken. We didn't do it so much through diplomacy and nation building (though we have done that) as we've done it with economics. But we are no longer in the power position to do that.---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #82 June 16, 2006 whatever. believe what you want. I've seen the pessimists come & go. They get proven wrong time & time again, but never stop calling themselves "realists". I agree with you however, if you're saying that we need to stop neo-con imperialism. This Lex Luthor -world domination thing is bullshit. Nevertheless, I still suspect we'll manage to muddle through somehow. If we can hang in there until November 2008 maybe people will finally wise up & kick out the Neo-cons. Shit, even Pat Buchanan is starting to look good now. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,485 #83 June 16, 2006 QuoteIf that is the comparison you need to make you feel good about your country, then I'm sorry for you. Personally I'd like to be compared with over-achievers rather than under achievers. Having seen most of the globe, I'm receptive to your definition of "over-achievers."Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #84 June 16, 2006 QuoteWhere is it written that certain ways for the government to levy money from the governed are legitimate, and certain ways are illegitimate? The argument that money has already been taxed is a stupid one. Ever heard of "property tax"? Obtuse and discourteous delivery. You're on a roll. You can have the last word if you like. Have a fun weekend. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #85 June 16, 2006 QuoteHonestly, I'm looking elsewhere for my future. I don't know where I can go or what I can do to facilitate my well-being when I get there. But I do feel that if I want to do what's best for me, I probably shouldn't stick around here too much into the future. Guess it's about time I should learn a new language and get ready to become the humble immigrant. First of all, good luck immigrating anywhere. With possible exception to Canada (I don't know their policy since there are so many that work here, and vice versa), the United States of America has the most gracious immigration laws on the planet. Thought about the UK? You'll need a work visa first. Know what it will take to get one? Thought about France or Germany? Well, you're not from the middle east, and we're not in their political favor right now, so get ready to wait...and wait... Eastern Europe might be the ticket, parts are very beautiful, it'll just be difficult learning the language. DPRK will take you as a propaganda tool, but you don't really want to be communist...do you? China has over a billion, they don't want you. So does India. Russia might, good luck with the language and the corruption. Africa...uh... But hey, you got options. QuoteAnyone else feel like they want to get out? Not a chance. I have no doubts about how good we have it here, despite your reservations (which I disagree with).So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #86 June 16, 2006 QuoteI have the perfect idea for the US government since its so broke: Cut the death tax.Lots of functioning businesses, and financially sound estates are torn apart by inheritance tax, thus leaving the recepients scraping to hold things together. Seems counter productive to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #87 June 16, 2006 Last time I worked in Canada, I needed a work visa. The same goes for Mexico as I had to apply for a visa to work there. I did railroad inspection."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twibbles 0 #88 June 16, 2006 Quote the United States of America has the most gracious immigration laws on the planet. I seriously doubt that. Just trying to get a travel visa for me involves sending the application in to the US embassy, wait to be summoned for an interview at the embassy, then wait six months before i find out if i get it or not. As you can imagine, travelling to a boogie in the US for me is a bit tricky. I don't even want to think waht trying to emigrate to the US in the current climate is going to be. I've got better luck getting a work visa in the UK. Eugene "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #89 June 16, 2006 QuoteSomething needs to be done. But the support we need to get it done is mitigated by the fact that over half of the country is a bunch of evangelical neo-conservatives that either believe things are going great, or that things don't need to be done because Jesus is coming back to save them. It will require a war against a way of thinking and a belief system.So you are proposing a radical change in the way things are run by the government. We want to take money away from those who earned it and give it to those who didn't. We want to eliminate all trace of God and religion. We want to get rid of anyone who opposes our program. Been done. Didn't work. It only took 70 yrs. to figure it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twibbles 0 #90 June 16, 2006 I think the details of the tax code isn't directly revelent. What is revelent that the United States is spending beyond her means. Now, how do you change that? Should it be changed? Can it be changed? I'm studying to be an engineer, not finance. So if i'm wrong with my assumptions, well, i'm here to learn. Eugene "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #91 June 16, 2006 the United States of America has the most gracious immigration laws on the planet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI seriously doubt that. Just trying to get a travel visa for me involves sending the application in to the US embassy, wait to be summoned for an interview at the embassy, then wait six months before i find out if i get it or not. You just came in the wrong gate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #92 June 16, 2006 Quote I probably shouldn't stick around here too much into the future. Anyone else feel like they want to get out? Nope! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkR 0 #93 June 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have the perfect idea for the US government since its so broke: Cut the death tax.Lots of functioning businesses, and financially sound estates are torn apart by inheritance tax, thus leaving the recepients scraping to hold things together. Seems counter productive to me. You do know that only those pay inheritance tax which can afford it, right? It won't hit the poor or middle-class man. That its tearing apart "lots of functioning businesses and financially sound estates" is nothing but a strategically clever strewn myth by those who don't want to pay the "death tax" (read: the rich ones). So the US government is short on dough and still it forbears from the millions of rich families like the Hilton clan. Seems counter productive to me.»Somewhere between the lies and truths borderlines get shady. Somewhere between the yesses and nos you can find the maybe.« Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #94 June 16, 2006 QuoteI was really thinking about what it would be like to transplant to a new country. . Dude, you live in OKLAHOMA!!! Move to East or West Coast. That will give you a taste! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #95 June 16, 2006 I understand exactly what you are saying. Its amusing how some people here seem to be taking it personally and criticizing you for your opinion. Maybe we forget that the good ole USA was founded on people thinking the grass was greener over in the "new world." Perhaps we forget that although those same people may have found it to be greener, it wasn't green enough so people had to die. Has anything changed? Nope and it never will.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shaiziel 0 #96 June 16, 2006 QuoteSo you are proposing a radical change in the way things are run by the government. I proposing a "radical" migration away from the direction this country is being run (see: into the ground). Quote We want to take money away from those who earned it and give it to those who didn't.Did I say anything about that? I said everyone pays their fare. BTW if you believe that "people on welfare" have benefitted more than those who have built vast business empires, I believe you're mistaken. Being supplied with the relative minimums to survive in manner which isn't dehumanizing is a WEE bit shy of having a private jet. Just saying. Capitalism provides the opportunity to advance your position in life if you have the claws and teeth and wits about you to do it. But there is no guarantee that you will advance. Some people are happy with being handfed the minimums. But the reality is you can't expect people who won't help themselves to be capable of "giving what they take." This doesn't excuse their behavior, it merely explains it. But go ahead and believe I think all the the billionaires should subsidize every facet of the middle and lower class. I don't. But I do believe that the greater the disparity between the rich and the poor, the greater the economic tension. The difference between the rich and the poor at the point when it all buckles under pressure, is that rich can pack their bags and move to bermuda while the poor are left to rebuild after a period of wading around in relative shit. It's all cyclical and it's the nature of capitalism. Quote We want to eliminate all trace of God and religion. NO. We want to eliminate "God's agenda" from the agenda of the affairs of state. We are no better than the Muslim nations you assclowns despise if we back up what we do in "God" currency. Neat fact. No one gives a flying fuck about each other's god. "My god can beat up your god!" Child's play on the adult playground. Seperation of church and state. While I love a good inquisition... I'll pass. Quote We want to get rid of anyone who opposes our program. Again. NO. We need to find compromise and rationally develop ways and means to coexist. Of course if you want to go shoot up some muzzies cause they hate America, go ahead. But I'm not coming in after you. If you believe they started the quarrel they have with us, you'd be wrong. We were the ones banging on the beehive.---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #97 June 16, 2006 QuoteYou do know that only those pay inheritance tax which can afford it, right? It won't hit the poor or middle-class man.I could do the research myself, but I have heard stories. Let's say you work a job earning $50,000 a yr. Enough to live well. One of your relatives leaves you a business worth $2,000,000. This is inventory and day to day operation. The govt. says we want 50% of the face value.You have two choices. Sell the business and take your half, or get a loan to pay the govt. thus putting you into debt. Breaking up the business potentially puts many people on the street. Many, who may have invested their lives in the business. In the long run, the taxes collected from a functioning business is more than a one time gouge, that ends the business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shaiziel 0 #98 June 16, 2006 Bah Steve! I'm not all about East/West coast glam! I probably never will leave. I'll just sit around in good ole' Oklahoma. My parents have some land. If shit ever got really bad, we'll just make our own way as we can.---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #99 June 16, 2006 Quote If shit ever got really bad, we'll just make our own way as we can. If shit ever gets really bad, I'm coming THERE. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shaiziel 0 #100 June 16, 2006 Honestly I think there will come a point when there are people leaving or trying to leave. At that point, though, there will also be a lot of internal strife and conflict. We are losing our status. But no one seems to pay attention to the elephant leaving the room. We're too wrapped up in making sure gays don't marry and stem cell therapy doesn't get any funding. These are the domestic affairs that REALLY matter since they represent the fabric of what makes us America. Nevermind those silly things like trade deficits and inflation. They are signs of a strong nation!---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
