Karl Rove not to be Charged

[Gravitymaster 0]

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You are right about the EO numbers. Here's both EO's and the language differences:

I've got a copy of the strike through version if you want it.

So I don't see why you have such a big problem with Bush adding the Vice-President as having authority. Most would agree that Cheney is more involved than any other V.P. in history
We'll let history decide if this was a good thing
and Bush, in recognition of that fact, has given him the authority. Or are you now going to argue that had Clinton given Gore the same authority, you'd be just as vocal?

Gore didn't lie to get us into a massive war and region building initiative and then continue to lie about what he said when he did it.

In this case, it has nothing to do with declassifying information about Valerie Plame and more with declassifying information about progress in the war.

So why did Cheney bring it up as a defense when being questioned about the Plame case?

Again, a strawman arguement meant only to distract.

I'm not trying to distract from anything. I have a real concern with the Pres giving the Vice President, especially this one, the power to do any damn thing he wants. He's been busted lying about critical issues too many times to be trusted with this sort of executive power. And considering the history of this administration and their repeated efforts to crush any dissenter, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they would have been involved in something like this. Scooter lies to prosecutors, Rove gets busted making contradictory statements and you have an administration that starts playing games like "we don't know anything about it" which morphs into "oh yea, we gave ourselves the power to declassify this information a long time ago so there's nothing wrong with it and nothing you can do about it." What do you think people are going to do? Hopefully investigate the inconsistencies. I don't think it's unreasonable to investigate such things, when there appears to be reasonable cause to suspect that an administration is illegally retaliating against critics, has manipulated intelligence to support a war that they've been selling for years, or to possibly investigate the VP's involvement in the defrauding the US taxpayer through a company that's currently defrauding the US taxpayer. What gets me is that apparently those sorts of investigations are considered bullshit partisan attacks but that the Whitewater investigation was, and still is somehow justifiable because a couple of people who were of no consequence to the administration, our national security or the treasury, got busted doing something shady.

Let me know when the arrest warrants are issued. In the mean time, Joe Wilson is a liar and all you lefties who trash talked Rove, Cheney and Bush about leaking information about Valerie Plame have a lot of crow to eat.

[GTAVercetti 0]

As long as we can keep the situations as polarized as possible then we are clearly doing the best we can for the country.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Let me know when the arrest warrants are issued. In the mean time, Joe Wilson is a liar and all you lefties who trash talked Rove, Cheney and Bush about leaking information about Valerie Plame have a lot of crow to eat.

Glad to see your priorities are in order. And I've got no crow to eat. You seem to think that because a criminal isn't guilty of every crime that they're somehow innocent.
Waaaaaaiiiiiit a minute. It just hit me, sorry I'm slow. But am I wrong or are YOU doing backflips in the aisles over a story that NEWSWEEK broke?

[kallend 2,148]

And O.J. is innocent too.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

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Millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted investigating a nonexistent crime.
[/url]

Why bring up Whitewater and its cost to the taxpayer of $79.3 million right now?

Jim Guy Tucker, Webb Hubbell, Jim & Susan McDougal etc. How conveniently we forget.

Well, Scooter has been charged with a crime too.

Do you REALLY think the Republican leadership was going after Susan McD? I can't imagine that even you would claim that.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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You are right about the EO numbers. Here's both EO's and the language differences:

I've got a copy of the strike through version if you want it.

So I don't see why you have such a big problem with Bush adding the Vice-President as having authority. Most would agree that Cheney is more involved than any other V.P. in history
We'll let history decide if this was a good thing
and Bush, in recognition of that fact, has given him the authority. Or are you now going to argue that had Clinton given Gore the same authority, you'd be just as vocal?

Gore didn't lie to get us into a massive war and region building initiative and then continue to lie about what he said when he did it.

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But Gore said all the same things Bush and Cheney said long befor Bush was running for office so he must have lied

In this case, it has nothing to do with declassifying information about Valerie Plame and more with declassifying information about progress in the war.

So why did Cheney bring it up as a defense when being questioned about the Plame case?

Again, a strawman arguement meant only to distract.

I'm not trying to distract from anything. I have a real concern with the Pres giving the Vice President, especially this one, the power to do any damn thing he wants. He's been busted lying about critical issues too many times to be trusted with this sort of executive power. And considering the history of this administration and their repeated efforts to crush any dissenter, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they would have been involved in something like this. Scooter lies to prosecutors, Rove gets busted making contradictory statements and you have an administration that starts playing games like "we don't know anything about it" which morphs into "oh yea, we gave ourselves the power to declassify this information a long time ago so there's nothing wrong with it and nothing you can do about it." What do you think people are going to do? Hopefully investigate the inconsistencies. I don't think it's unreasonable to investigate such things, when there appears to be reasonable cause to suspect that an administration is illegally retaliating against critics, has manipulated intelligence to support a war that they've been selling for years, or to possibly investigate the VP's involvement in the defrauding the US taxpayer through a company that's currently defrauding the US taxpayer. What gets me is that apparently those sorts of investigations are considered bullshit partisan attacks but that the Whitewater investigation was, and still is somehow justifiable because a couple of people who were of no consequence to the administration, our national security or the treasury, got busted doing something shady.

Ahhh, "this" vice president. I guess we will all have to wait for your approved VP before anything can be changed.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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[Gravitymaster 0]

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And O.J. is innocent too.

If someone came forward right now and said "I killed Nicole Simpson and here's the proof I did it", are you still going to claim OJ is guilty?

One more time for you and the others desperately grasping at straws:

"ARMITAGE HAS ADMITTED HE LEAKED VALERIE PLAMES NAME.

IS THIS CLEAR?

HE HAS ADMITTED HE WAS THE SOURCE OF THE LEAK!!!!!

IT'S OVER!!!!!

IT WAS A NICE TRY TO TIE THE PRESIDENT TO TREASON, BUT IT DIDN'T WORK!!!!

Now you guys can get to work on your next smear campaign.

[kallend 2,148]

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And O.J. is innocent too.

If someone came forward right now and said "I killed Nicole Simpson and here's the proof I did it", are you still going to claim OJ is guilty?

.

Happened just this week that a nutter came forward and confessed to killing JonBenet. The real criminal is still guilty.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sundevil777 102]

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People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. .

Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry.

the text in bold is rather humorous.

Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor?

Does Kerry still have his? Earlier he claimed to have tossed them, did he throw them over the fence or not? He now claims to have them, but won't produce them.

I would think that once you claim to have tossed them away in an act of defiance against your country, that you should no longer have claim to that honor.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Gravitymaster 0]

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And O.J. is innocent too.

If someone came forward right now and said "I killed Nicole Simpson and here's the proof I did it", are you still going to claim OJ is guilty?

.

Happened just this week that a nutter came forward and confessed to killing JonBenet. The real criminal is still guilty.

Now you are just getting pathetic.

Keep grasping at those straws though, it's fun entertainment!

[idrankwhat 0]

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Ahhh, "this" vice president. I guess we will all have to wait for your approved VP before anything can be changed.......

If we're going to give the VP full executive powers, how about we make the first one someone who isn't a war criminal, or at the very least one who recognizes that there is a Constitutional system of checks and balances against an authoritarian executive? I don't ask for much.

[rushmc 23]

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Ahhh, "this" vice president. I guess we will all have to wait for your approved VP before anything can be changed.......

If we're going to give the VP full executive powers, how about we make the first one someone who isn't a war criminal, or at the very least one who recognizes that there is a Constitutional system of checks and balances against an authoritarian executive? I don't ask for much.

Other than your accusations I believe we already have a VP that meets your requirments

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

I really hope this thread keep going as it have been fun to follow

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I really hope this thread keep going as it have been fun to follow

What? This thread is immensly boring. Just the same shit over and over.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[rushmc 23]

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I really hope this thread keep going as it have been fun to follow

What? This thread is immensly boring. Just the same shit over and over.

Oh well, to each thier own.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

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If we're going to give the VP full executive powers, how about we make the first one someone who isn't a war criminal, or at the very least one who recognizes that there is a Constitutional system of checks and balances against an authoritarian executive? I don't ask for much.

More distraction. Please post the indictment of Cheney for war crimes and subsequent conviction. So...pathetic, really.

Back to the thread:

From todays WaPo.

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End of an Affair
It turns out that the person who exposed CIA agent Valerie Plame was not out to punish her husband.

Friday, September 1, 2006; A20



WE'RE RELUCTANT to return to the subject of former CIA employee Valerie Plame because of our oft-stated belief that far too much attention and debate in Washington has been devoted to her story and that of her husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, over the past three years. But all those who have opined on this affair ought to take note of the not-so-surprising disclosure that the primary source of the newspaper column in which Ms. Plame's cover as an agent was purportedly blown in 2003 was former deputy secretary of state Richard L. Armitage.

Mr. Armitage was one of the Bush administration officials who supported the invasion of Iraq only reluctantly. He was a political rival of the White House and Pentagon officials who championed the war and whom Mr. Wilson accused of twisting intelligence about Iraq and then plotting to destroy him. Unaware that Ms. Plame's identity was classified information, Mr. Armitage reportedly passed it along to columnist Robert D. Novak "in an offhand manner, virtually as gossip," according to a story this week by the Post's R. Jeffrey

Smith, who quoted a former colleague of Mr. Armitage.

It follows that one of the most sensational charges leveled against the Bush White House -- that it orchestrated the leak of Ms. Plame's identity to ruin her career and thus punish Mr. Wilson -- is untrue. The partisan clamor that followed the raising of that allegation by Mr. Wilson in the summer of 2003 led to the appointment of a special prosecutor, a costly and prolonged investigation, and the indictment of Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, on charges of perjury. All of that might have been avoided had Mr. Armitage's identity been known three years ago.

That's not to say that Mr. Libby and other White House officials are blameless. As prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald has reported, when Mr. Wilson charged that intelligence about Iraq had been twisted to make a case for war, Mr. Libby and Mr. Cheney reacted by inquiring about Ms. Plame's role in recommending Mr. Wilson for a CIA-sponsored trip to Niger, where he investigated reports that Iraq had sought to purchase uranium. Mr. Libby then allegedly disclosed Ms. Plame's identity to journalists and lied to a grand jury when he said he had learned of her identity from one of those reporters. Mr. Libby and his boss, Mr. Cheney, were trying to discredit Mr. Wilson; if Mr. Fitzgerald's account is correct, they were careless about handling information that was classified.

Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson chose to go public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and that his report had circulated to senior administration officials. He ought to have expected that both those officials and journalists such as Mr. Novak would ask why a retired ambassador would have been sent on such a mission and that the answer would point to his wife. He diverted responsibility from himself and his false charges by claiming that President Bush's closest aides had engaged in an illegal conspiracy. It's unfortunate that so many people took him seriously.

Joe Wison is nothing but a liar, as I have said all along. One thing not reprted in the media is that Joe Wilson was sent to Niger in 1999 at the request of his wife at that time also. Cheney knew this and it's one of the reasons he started inquiring as to why Wilson was being sent again.

http://web.mit.edu/simsong/www/iraqreport2-textunder.pdf
pg 39 of the actual doc. (pdf pg.49)

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The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on the CIA's behalf |xxxxxxx|. The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region |^ ^ ^ ^ | . Because the former ambassador did not uncover any information about |xxxxx| during this visit to Niger, CPD did not distribute an intelligence report on the visit.

So was it any wonder that questions about why Joe Wilson was being sent to Niger on a second "fact finding" trip would be raised? Has anyone ever gotten an answer as to why the CIA would send a former Ambassador on a trip like this instead of someone trained in intel gathering?