rushmc 23 #51 August 29, 2006 Maybe the parties do the same thing but is most certinly is not reported the same. Edited to add: I guess your statement invalidates his point too ................................. I guess..... ...... ......"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #52 August 29, 2006 Quote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #53 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. Rewind 5 years and see the hateful things Kallend has said about almost every Republican. I didn't say anything about Kerry that has been proven untrue. You on the other hand........well, we all know, don't we? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #54 August 30, 2006 Quote>People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. Indeed. Rewind 8 years and you'd see the same sort of statements about Clinton and Gore. In another 3 years the GOP will be calling the next president a whore, or a bitch, or a war criminal, or a traitor. Nothing changes but the names. Right, RDIF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #55 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. Rewind 5 years and see the hateful things Kallend has said about almost every Republican. I didn't say anything about Kerry that has been proven untrue. You on the other hand........well, we all know, don't we? There are tens of millions of registered Republicans, and I have written nothing at all about almost every one of them. I have written favorably about many (McCain, Bush 1, Eisenhower, Specter, Ford) Go ahead and find my comments about "almost every Republican" - if you can find only one million I will accept your claim. I CAN find your quotes about Kerry.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #56 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things Quotewritten by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. Rewind 5 years and see the hateful things Kallend has said about almost every Republican. I didn't say anything about Kerry that has been proven untrue. You on the other hand........well, we all know, don't we? QuoteThere are tens of millions of registered Republicans, and I have written nothing at all about almost every one of them. I have written favorably about many (McCain, Bush 1, Eisenhower, Specter, Ford) Fine, I'll change that to almost every Republican in this administration who's name has come up on this site. Better now? QuoteGo ahead and find my comments about "almost every Republican" - if you can find only one million I will accept your claim. I CAN find your quotes about Kerry. Go ahead. Find one thing I said about Kerry which has proven to be false. You have bashed Neo-Cons as a group and I can assure you there's more than just 1 million. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #57 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #58 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. There's also a huge difference between saying something hateful, which really only means belittling them as part on the normal back and forth jousting we do on this site and accusing them of treason while suggesting they commited a felony. The signal to noise ratio between the Kerry and Bush bashers has no parity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #59 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #60 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor? Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #61 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor? Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. What, aren't YOU a "real" war hero, better than Kerry?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #62 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor? Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. What, aren't YOU a "real" war hero, better than Kerry? Ahem, and with greater volume... Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. C'mon Johnboy, you can do better than that. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #63 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor? Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. What, aren't YOU a "real" war hero, better than Kerry? Ahem, and with greater volume... Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. C'mon Johnboy, you can do better than that. Resorting to the PA when you can't answer is too transparent and fools no-one. Bed time?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #64 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor? Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. What, aren't YOU a "real" war hero, better than Kerry? Ahem, and with greater volume... Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. C'mon Johnboy, you can do better than that. Resorting to the PA when you can't answer is too transparent and fools no-one. Bed time? PA? calling you Johnboy is a PA? You amaze me. If it's anyone's bed time it's yours, you old grump! I didn't answer b/c your question is irrelevant. And you know it. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #65 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. He just means that Kerry wears frilly knickers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #66 August 30, 2006 Quote Millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted investigating a nonexistent crime. Innocent White House officials were distracted from serving the country in order to participate in the investigation, Boy, does THIS sound familiar So, it is starting to appear that the "leaker" was a well known Washington Gossip. This also may explain why Colin Powell was pushed out of his job as Secretary of State. He was pushed out because he was the one voice of reason in the first administration. Historically, if you don't toe the line with regard to the Bush agenda then you are sent packing. I sincerely hope this cover-up is investigated and the people responsible for it brought to justice, although I doubt it will. My question is, out of all the things that have come out of the investigation so far, why is Cheney not being grilled on his comments (or more accurately, non-comment) to Hume regarding his unilateral declassification superpower that he's been supposedly granted? As for Rove, I'd never let him off the hook. Nobody in the administration takes a dump without Turdblossom knowing about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #67 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. He just means that Kerry wears frilly knickers You've seen his knickers. What were you two doing?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #68 August 30, 2006 Quote Millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted investigating a nonexistent crime. [/url] Why bring up Whitewater and its cost to the taxpayer of $79.3 million right now?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #69 August 31, 2006 QuoteQuote Millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted investigating a nonexistent crime. [/url] Why bring up Whitewater and its cost to the taxpayer of $79.3 million right now? Jim Guy Tucker, Webb Hubbell, Jim & Susan McDougal etc. How conveniently we forget. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #70 August 31, 2006 QuoteQuote Millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted investigating a nonexistent crime. Innocent White House officials were distracted from serving the country in order to participate in the investigation, Boy, does THIS sound familiar So, it is starting to appear that the "leaker" was a well known Washington Gossip. This also may explain why Colin Powell was pushed out of his job as Secretary of State. QuoteHe was pushed out because he was the one voice of reason in the first administration. Historically, if you don't toe the line with regard to the Bush agenda then you are sent packing. In your opinion he was pushed out because he had different views. Doesn't make his views correct just because they are different. All Administrations and Political Parties do it. Look at what the Dems are doing to Lieberman. Had Bush pushed Armitage out, maybe this stupid investigation would never have happened. >I sincerely hope this cover-up is investigated and >the people responsible for it brought to justice, >although I doubt it will. Quote My question is, out of all the things that have come out of the investigation so far, why is Cheney not being grilled on his comments (or more accurately, non-comment) to Hume regarding his unilateral declassification superpower that he's been supposedly granted? Maybe because there's no case here? Just a wild guess considering the Dems want to undermine everything the Admin. does whether it's founded in reality or not. QuoteAs for Rove, I'd never let him off the hook. No surprise here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #71 August 31, 2006 Quote Quote My question is, out of all the things that have come out of the investigation so far, why is Cheney not being grilled on his comments (or more accurately, non-comment) to Hume regarding his unilateral declassification superpower that he's been supposedly granted? Maybe because there's no case here? Just a wild guess considering the Dems want to undermine everything the Admin. does whether it's founded in reality or not. No case?!!?? And what wild guess? He specifically stated that there was an executive order that stated that they could declassify information. First of all I'm not sure that anyone but the classifying agency can declassify their information. Secondly, he was asked if he had ever done it unilaterally. He said "I don't want to get into that". I'd say that's a damn good question. I think it would be nice to know if the VP is flying solo with regard to execising powers that even the President probably doesn't have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #72 August 31, 2006 You do realize that EO13292 was implemented by none other than Bill Clinton, don't you? All Bush did was insert "The Vice President" in addition to agency heads or "other persons designated by the President". Either way your arguement is nothing but a strawman and an attempt to distract. All the rantings of a conspiracy to out Valerie Plame have just been put where they ought to be...in the shitter...... and then flushed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #73 August 31, 2006 QuoteYou do realize that EO13292 was implemented by none other than Bill Clinton, don't you? All Bush did was insert "The Vice President" in addition to agency heads or "other persons designated by the President". Have you seen a copy of that document with the changes marked? The above is a considerable understatement, and that's an understatement. Clinton's was 12958, 13292 is W's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #74 August 31, 2006 You are right about the EO numbers. Here's both EO's and the language differences: Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President; (2) agency heads and officials designated by the President in the Federal Register... In the Bush order, that section was changed to this: Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; (2) agency heads and officials designated by the President in the Federal Register... In another part of the original Clinton order, there was a segment dealing with who was authorized to delegate the authority to classify material. In the Clinton order, the passage read: (2) "Top Secret" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President or by an agency head or official designated... (3) "Secret" or "Confidential" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; an agency head or official designated... In the Bush order, that segment was changed to read: (2) "Top Secret" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; or an agency head or official designated... (3) "Secret" or "Confidential" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; or an agency head or official designated... Both executive orders contained extension sections defining the terms used in the order. One of those terms was "original classification authority," that is, who in the government has the power to classify documents. In the Clinton order, the definition read: "Original classification authority" means an individual authorized in writing, either by the President, or by agency heads or other officials designated by the President... In the Bush executive order, the definition was changed to read: "Original classification authority" means an individual authorized in writing, either by the President, the Vice President in the performance of executive duties, or by agency heads or other officials designated by the President... So I don't see why you have such a big problem with Bush adding the Vice-President as having authority. Most would agree that Cheney is more involved than any other V.P. in history and Bush, in recognition of that fact, has given him the authority. Or are you now going to argue that had Clinton given Gore the same authority, you'd be just as vocal? In this case, it has nothing to do with declassifying information about Valerie Plame and more with declassifying information about progress in the war. Again, a strawman arguement meant only to distract. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #75 August 31, 2006 QuoteYou are right about the EO numbers. Here's both EO's and the language differences: I've got a copy of the strike through version if you want it. So I don't see why you have such a big problem with Bush adding the Vice-President as having authority. Most would agree that Cheney is more involved than any other V.P. in history We'll let history decide if this was a good thing and Bush, in recognition of that fact, has given him the authority. Or are you now going to argue that had Clinton given Gore the same authority, you'd be just as vocal? Gore didn't lie to get us into a massive war and region building initiative and then continue to lie about what he said when he did it. In this case, it has nothing to do with declassifying information about Valerie Plame and more with declassifying information about progress in the war. So why did Cheney bring it up as a defense when being questioned about the Plame case? Again, a strawman arguement meant only to distract. I'm not trying to distract from anything. I have a real concern with the Pres giving the Vice President, especially this one, the power to do any damn thing he wants. He's been busted lying about critical issues too many times to be trusted with this sort of executive power. And considering the history of this administration and their repeated efforts to crush any dissenter, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they would have been involved in something like this. Scooter lies to prosecutors, Rove gets busted making contradictory statements and you have an administration that starts playing games like "we don't know anything about it" which morphs into "oh yea, we gave ourselves the power to declassify this information a long time ago so there's nothing wrong with it and nothing you can do about it." What do you think people are going to do? Hopefully investigate the inconsistencies. I don't think it's unreasonable to investigate such things, when there appears to be reasonable cause to suspect that an administration is illegally retaliating against critics, has manipulated intelligence to support a war that they've been selling for years, or to possibly investigate the VP's involvement in the defrauding the US taxpayer through a company that's currently defrauding the US taxpayer. What gets me is that apparently those sorts of investigations are considered bullshit partisan attacks but that the Whitewater investigation was, and still is somehow justifiable because a couple of people who were of no consequence to the administration, our national security or the treasury, got busted doing something shady. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
micro 0 #57 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #58 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. There's also a huge difference between saying something hateful, which really only means belittling them as part on the normal back and forth jousting we do on this site and accusing them of treason while suggesting they commited a felony. The signal to noise ratio between the Kerry and Bush bashers has no parity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #59 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #60 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor? Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #61 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor? Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. What, aren't YOU a "real" war hero, better than Kerry?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #62 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor? Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. What, aren't YOU a "real" war hero, better than Kerry? Ahem, and with greater volume... Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. C'mon Johnboy, you can do better than that. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #63 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor? Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. What, aren't YOU a "real" war hero, better than Kerry? Ahem, and with greater volume... Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. C'mon Johnboy, you can do better than that. Resorting to the PA when you can't answer is too transparent and fools no-one. Bed time?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #64 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. Why don't you post a picture of your Silver Stars? Or do you have the Medal of Honor? Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. What, aren't YOU a "real" war hero, better than Kerry? Ahem, and with greater volume... Boy, the quality of your responses is deteriorating rapidly. C'mon Johnboy, you can do better than that. Resorting to the PA when you can't answer is too transparent and fools no-one. Bed time? PA? calling you Johnboy is a PA? You amaze me. If it's anyone's bed time it's yours, you old grump! I didn't answer b/c your question is irrelevant. And you know it. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #65 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. He just means that Kerry wears frilly knickers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #66 August 30, 2006 Quote Millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted investigating a nonexistent crime. Innocent White House officials were distracted from serving the country in order to participate in the investigation, Boy, does THIS sound familiar So, it is starting to appear that the "leaker" was a well known Washington Gossip. This also may explain why Colin Powell was pushed out of his job as Secretary of State. He was pushed out because he was the one voice of reason in the first administration. Historically, if you don't toe the line with regard to the Bush agenda then you are sent packing. I sincerely hope this cover-up is investigated and the people responsible for it brought to justice, although I doubt it will. My question is, out of all the things that have come out of the investigation so far, why is Cheney not being grilled on his comments (or more accurately, non-comment) to Hume regarding his unilateral declassification superpower that he's been supposedly granted? As for Rove, I'd never let him off the hook. Nobody in the administration takes a dump without Turdblossom knowing about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #67 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote People on this forum said the most hateful things about Bush and Rove at the time. . Rewind nearly 2 years and find the hateful things written by one "Gravitymaster" on this forum about a decorated war hero and US Senator named John Kerry. the text in bold is rather humorous. He just means that Kerry wears frilly knickers You've seen his knickers. What were you two doing?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #68 August 30, 2006 Quote Millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted investigating a nonexistent crime. [/url] Why bring up Whitewater and its cost to the taxpayer of $79.3 million right now?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #69 August 31, 2006 QuoteQuote Millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted investigating a nonexistent crime. [/url] Why bring up Whitewater and its cost to the taxpayer of $79.3 million right now? Jim Guy Tucker, Webb Hubbell, Jim & Susan McDougal etc. How conveniently we forget. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #70 August 31, 2006 QuoteQuote Millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted investigating a nonexistent crime. Innocent White House officials were distracted from serving the country in order to participate in the investigation, Boy, does THIS sound familiar So, it is starting to appear that the "leaker" was a well known Washington Gossip. This also may explain why Colin Powell was pushed out of his job as Secretary of State. QuoteHe was pushed out because he was the one voice of reason in the first administration. Historically, if you don't toe the line with regard to the Bush agenda then you are sent packing. In your opinion he was pushed out because he had different views. Doesn't make his views correct just because they are different. All Administrations and Political Parties do it. Look at what the Dems are doing to Lieberman. Had Bush pushed Armitage out, maybe this stupid investigation would never have happened. >I sincerely hope this cover-up is investigated and >the people responsible for it brought to justice, >although I doubt it will. Quote My question is, out of all the things that have come out of the investigation so far, why is Cheney not being grilled on his comments (or more accurately, non-comment) to Hume regarding his unilateral declassification superpower that he's been supposedly granted? Maybe because there's no case here? Just a wild guess considering the Dems want to undermine everything the Admin. does whether it's founded in reality or not. QuoteAs for Rove, I'd never let him off the hook. No surprise here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #71 August 31, 2006 Quote Quote My question is, out of all the things that have come out of the investigation so far, why is Cheney not being grilled on his comments (or more accurately, non-comment) to Hume regarding his unilateral declassification superpower that he's been supposedly granted? Maybe because there's no case here? Just a wild guess considering the Dems want to undermine everything the Admin. does whether it's founded in reality or not. No case?!!?? And what wild guess? He specifically stated that there was an executive order that stated that they could declassify information. First of all I'm not sure that anyone but the classifying agency can declassify their information. Secondly, he was asked if he had ever done it unilaterally. He said "I don't want to get into that". I'd say that's a damn good question. I think it would be nice to know if the VP is flying solo with regard to execising powers that even the President probably doesn't have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #72 August 31, 2006 You do realize that EO13292 was implemented by none other than Bill Clinton, don't you? All Bush did was insert "The Vice President" in addition to agency heads or "other persons designated by the President". Either way your arguement is nothing but a strawman and an attempt to distract. All the rantings of a conspiracy to out Valerie Plame have just been put where they ought to be...in the shitter...... and then flushed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #73 August 31, 2006 QuoteYou do realize that EO13292 was implemented by none other than Bill Clinton, don't you? All Bush did was insert "The Vice President" in addition to agency heads or "other persons designated by the President". Have you seen a copy of that document with the changes marked? The above is a considerable understatement, and that's an understatement. Clinton's was 12958, 13292 is W's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #74 August 31, 2006 You are right about the EO numbers. Here's both EO's and the language differences: Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President; (2) agency heads and officials designated by the President in the Federal Register... In the Bush order, that section was changed to this: Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; (2) agency heads and officials designated by the President in the Federal Register... In another part of the original Clinton order, there was a segment dealing with who was authorized to delegate the authority to classify material. In the Clinton order, the passage read: (2) "Top Secret" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President or by an agency head or official designated... (3) "Secret" or "Confidential" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; an agency head or official designated... In the Bush order, that segment was changed to read: (2) "Top Secret" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; or an agency head or official designated... (3) "Secret" or "Confidential" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; or an agency head or official designated... Both executive orders contained extension sections defining the terms used in the order. One of those terms was "original classification authority," that is, who in the government has the power to classify documents. In the Clinton order, the definition read: "Original classification authority" means an individual authorized in writing, either by the President, or by agency heads or other officials designated by the President... In the Bush executive order, the definition was changed to read: "Original classification authority" means an individual authorized in writing, either by the President, the Vice President in the performance of executive duties, or by agency heads or other officials designated by the President... So I don't see why you have such a big problem with Bush adding the Vice-President as having authority. Most would agree that Cheney is more involved than any other V.P. in history and Bush, in recognition of that fact, has given him the authority. Or are you now going to argue that had Clinton given Gore the same authority, you'd be just as vocal? In this case, it has nothing to do with declassifying information about Valerie Plame and more with declassifying information about progress in the war. Again, a strawman arguement meant only to distract. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #75 August 31, 2006 QuoteYou are right about the EO numbers. Here's both EO's and the language differences: I've got a copy of the strike through version if you want it. So I don't see why you have such a big problem with Bush adding the Vice-President as having authority. Most would agree that Cheney is more involved than any other V.P. in history We'll let history decide if this was a good thing and Bush, in recognition of that fact, has given him the authority. Or are you now going to argue that had Clinton given Gore the same authority, you'd be just as vocal? Gore didn't lie to get us into a massive war and region building initiative and then continue to lie about what he said when he did it. In this case, it has nothing to do with declassifying information about Valerie Plame and more with declassifying information about progress in the war. So why did Cheney bring it up as a defense when being questioned about the Plame case? Again, a strawman arguement meant only to distract. I'm not trying to distract from anything. I have a real concern with the Pres giving the Vice President, especially this one, the power to do any damn thing he wants. He's been busted lying about critical issues too many times to be trusted with this sort of executive power. And considering the history of this administration and their repeated efforts to crush any dissenter, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they would have been involved in something like this. Scooter lies to prosecutors, Rove gets busted making contradictory statements and you have an administration that starts playing games like "we don't know anything about it" which morphs into "oh yea, we gave ourselves the power to declassify this information a long time ago so there's nothing wrong with it and nothing you can do about it." What do you think people are going to do? Hopefully investigate the inconsistencies. I don't think it's unreasonable to investigate such things, when there appears to be reasonable cause to suspect that an administration is illegally retaliating against critics, has manipulated intelligence to support a war that they've been selling for years, or to possibly investigate the VP's involvement in the defrauding the US taxpayer through a company that's currently defrauding the US taxpayer. What gets me is that apparently those sorts of investigations are considered bullshit partisan attacks but that the Whitewater investigation was, and still is somehow justifiable because a couple of people who were of no consequence to the administration, our national security or the treasury, got busted doing something shady. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
idrankwhat 0 #71 August 31, 2006 Quote Quote My question is, out of all the things that have come out of the investigation so far, why is Cheney not being grilled on his comments (or more accurately, non-comment) to Hume regarding his unilateral declassification superpower that he's been supposedly granted? Maybe because there's no case here? Just a wild guess considering the Dems want to undermine everything the Admin. does whether it's founded in reality or not. No case?!!?? And what wild guess? He specifically stated that there was an executive order that stated that they could declassify information. First of all I'm not sure that anyone but the classifying agency can declassify their information. Secondly, he was asked if he had ever done it unilaterally. He said "I don't want to get into that". I'd say that's a damn good question. I think it would be nice to know if the VP is flying solo with regard to execising powers that even the President probably doesn't have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #72 August 31, 2006 You do realize that EO13292 was implemented by none other than Bill Clinton, don't you? All Bush did was insert "The Vice President" in addition to agency heads or "other persons designated by the President". Either way your arguement is nothing but a strawman and an attempt to distract. All the rantings of a conspiracy to out Valerie Plame have just been put where they ought to be...in the shitter...... and then flushed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #73 August 31, 2006 QuoteYou do realize that EO13292 was implemented by none other than Bill Clinton, don't you? All Bush did was insert "The Vice President" in addition to agency heads or "other persons designated by the President". Have you seen a copy of that document with the changes marked? The above is a considerable understatement, and that's an understatement. Clinton's was 12958, 13292 is W's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #74 August 31, 2006 You are right about the EO numbers. Here's both EO's and the language differences: Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President; (2) agency heads and officials designated by the President in the Federal Register... In the Bush order, that section was changed to this: Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; (2) agency heads and officials designated by the President in the Federal Register... In another part of the original Clinton order, there was a segment dealing with who was authorized to delegate the authority to classify material. In the Clinton order, the passage read: (2) "Top Secret" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President or by an agency head or official designated... (3) "Secret" or "Confidential" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; an agency head or official designated... In the Bush order, that segment was changed to read: (2) "Top Secret" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; or an agency head or official designated... (3) "Secret" or "Confidential" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; or an agency head or official designated... Both executive orders contained extension sections defining the terms used in the order. One of those terms was "original classification authority," that is, who in the government has the power to classify documents. In the Clinton order, the definition read: "Original classification authority" means an individual authorized in writing, either by the President, or by agency heads or other officials designated by the President... In the Bush executive order, the definition was changed to read: "Original classification authority" means an individual authorized in writing, either by the President, the Vice President in the performance of executive duties, or by agency heads or other officials designated by the President... So I don't see why you have such a big problem with Bush adding the Vice-President as having authority. Most would agree that Cheney is more involved than any other V.P. in history and Bush, in recognition of that fact, has given him the authority. Or are you now going to argue that had Clinton given Gore the same authority, you'd be just as vocal? In this case, it has nothing to do with declassifying information about Valerie Plame and more with declassifying information about progress in the war. Again, a strawman arguement meant only to distract. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #75 August 31, 2006 QuoteYou are right about the EO numbers. Here's both EO's and the language differences: I've got a copy of the strike through version if you want it. So I don't see why you have such a big problem with Bush adding the Vice-President as having authority. Most would agree that Cheney is more involved than any other V.P. in history We'll let history decide if this was a good thing and Bush, in recognition of that fact, has given him the authority. Or are you now going to argue that had Clinton given Gore the same authority, you'd be just as vocal? Gore didn't lie to get us into a massive war and region building initiative and then continue to lie about what he said when he did it. In this case, it has nothing to do with declassifying information about Valerie Plame and more with declassifying information about progress in the war. So why did Cheney bring it up as a defense when being questioned about the Plame case? Again, a strawman arguement meant only to distract. I'm not trying to distract from anything. I have a real concern with the Pres giving the Vice President, especially this one, the power to do any damn thing he wants. He's been busted lying about critical issues too many times to be trusted with this sort of executive power. And considering the history of this administration and their repeated efforts to crush any dissenter, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they would have been involved in something like this. Scooter lies to prosecutors, Rove gets busted making contradictory statements and you have an administration that starts playing games like "we don't know anything about it" which morphs into "oh yea, we gave ourselves the power to declassify this information a long time ago so there's nothing wrong with it and nothing you can do about it." What do you think people are going to do? Hopefully investigate the inconsistencies. I don't think it's unreasonable to investigate such things, when there appears to be reasonable cause to suspect that an administration is illegally retaliating against critics, has manipulated intelligence to support a war that they've been selling for years, or to possibly investigate the VP's involvement in the defrauding the US taxpayer through a company that's currently defrauding the US taxpayer. What gets me is that apparently those sorts of investigations are considered bullshit partisan attacks but that the Whitewater investigation was, and still is somehow justifiable because a couple of people who were of no consequence to the administration, our national security or the treasury, got busted doing something shady. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
