Actual Negative Impact of Illegal immigration

[Rookie120 0]

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That would happen no matter what the situation is. As expenses go up businesses pass that cost on to the consumer.

Try the airline industry. They pass the increase in expenses onto the employee.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kallend 2,112]

I've had more problems personally with uninsured motorists than with illegal aliens.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Feel free to generalize. Assume the the immigrant is illegal.

well, if you want generalizations now...

The driving angle is a big one, pointed out. Illegal aliens mostly can't get drivers licenses. CA kicked out a governor in part on this issue. And I agree with it - the state has no business giving licenses to known aliens rather than deporting them.

The catch of course is they're not licensed, which is a minimal filter against substandard driving skills and they're not insurable. So they cannot and will not be responsible drivers.

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Overpopulation is a general problem for the US, and a specific one for the SoCal region. Illegal immigration is a pretty large portion of the growth rate these days. For the non immigrant population, birthrates are getting pretty close to flatline. And it's unplanned uncontrolled growth - infrastructure suffers. That includes water, bilingual school needs, general housing needs.

Illegal immigrants are for the most part, unskilled. Historically that's probably been true of most immigrants, but couple this with the population concerns. We no longer have a frontier. It's worse when a significant chunk of that cash is directed back home rather than staying within the domestic economy.

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Given the combination of the birth rates/influx and the lower skill levels (translating to income), we could devolve in the next century
back to where we were in the 18th Century where the established gentry controlled the wealth and more importantly, the middle class is non existent. Or a new South Africa, with the same sort of instability after apartheid was tossed.

[masterrig 1]

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Feel free to generalize. Assume the the immigrant is illegal.

well, if you want generalizations now...

The driving angle is a big one, pointed out. Illegal aliens mostly can't get drivers licenses. CA kicked out a governor in part on this issue. And I agree with it - the state has no business giving licenses to known aliens rather than deporting them.

The catch of course is they're not licensed, which is a minimal filter against substandard driving skills and they're not insurable. So they cannot and will not be responsible drivers.

---
Overpopulation is a general problem for the US, and a specific one for the SoCal region. Illegal immigration is a pretty large portion of the growth rate these days. For the non immigrant population, birthrates are getting pretty close to flatline. And it's unplanned uncontrolled growth - infrastructure suffers. That includes water, bilingual school needs, general housing needs.

Illegal immigrants are for the most part, unskilled. Historically that's probably been true of most immigrants, but couple this with the population concerns. We no longer have a frontier. It's worse when a significant chunk of that cash is directed back home rather than staying within the domestic economy.

---
Given the combination of the birth rates/influx and the lower skill levels (translating to income), we could devolve in the next century
back to where we were in the 18th Century where the established gentry controlled the wealth and more importantly, the middle class is non existent. Or a new South Africa, with the same sort of instability after apartheid was tossed.

__________________________________

You make some very good points. I wonder if, a lot of people are just oblivious to what is going-on around us?


Chuck

[kallend 2,112]

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Illegal immigrants are for the most part, unskilled. .

While I'm sure that is a true statement, let's not forget that there are still very many illegal aliens from places like Ireland, Poland, Bulgaria, India etc., who are very well educated indeed, but cannot get visas on account of silly preference rules.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Illegal immigrants are for the most part, unskilled. .

While I'm sure that is a true statement, let's not forget that there are still very many illegal aliens from places like Ireland, Poland, Bulgaria, India etc., who are very well educated indeed, but cannot get visas on account of silly preference rules.

Well John don't you understand that the mexicans should get the lions share of the visas issued each year?

this is also the reason we should let them all come into the US illegally without any interference.

[GQ_jumper 4]

not a first hand experience, but a co-workers neighboor watched his daughter get run over by an illegal alien driving without a license or any type of insurance, so after having to pay the medical bills out of pocket he finds out that the illegal alien is going to sue him for damages done to his truck when he hit the mans daughter.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[masterrig 1]

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not a first hand experience, but a co-workers neighboor watched his daughter get run over by an illegal alien driving without a license or any type of insurance, so after having to pay the medical bills out of pocket he finds out that the illegal alien is going to sue him for damages done to his truck when he hit the mans daughter.

______________________________________

I'm sorry to hear about your friend's daughter.
The sad part is, to add insult to injury, the court will probably award the illegal.


Chuck

[DrewGPM 0]

How about wages being kept below industry standards? Qualified citizens out of work? An environment where employees are afraid to ask for raises or complain about poor working conditions? Do those qualify as actual negatives?

Three well qualified friends were turned down for jobs because someone with similar experience was looking for a lot less money. In one case a guy with 5 years experience was asking for the same money we would normally give to someone with no experience at all. Same skills and 15% lower pay...what company would pass that up? So my friend remains unemployed and illegal goes to work.

After three years of working with another woman she walks in to HR and says that she now a legal citizen and wants to use her real name. So we fired the illegal name and hired the legal name...but we hired the legal name on at the original pay rate...so this woman lost all of her seniority, took a 10% pay cut and had to wait 60 days to get new health insurance. This happened often enough that the HR people were given a procedure to follow for this.

We also had people doing manual labor that hadn't asked for a raise or promotion in 5 years. Through conversations, most people knew they were illegal. But they worked hard and never asked for more money. when we needed temp labor to get through the busy season these people we told that if knew anyone looking for work, they should bring them in the next day. illegals seemed to know other illegals. So we get a huge pile of guys working for $6/hr...real temps normally got paid $9/hr.

my legal friends who worked along side these illegals were afraid to ask for a raise because they were afraid the company would just replace them with a low cost illegal. These people went two and three years without a raise. At the same time I'm getting 10% raises every year. So it's not like the company didn't have the money. The price of labor stays low, people are afraid to rock the boat for fear that they would get replaced by a hard working illegal who won't complain about long hours, low pay, unsafe work conditions, etc.

These are real example that I have seen over the last ten years. Whether it happens all the time or not....I don't know. But I can tell you that I have been at four companies in the Chicago area operate like this.

Why don't call INS about it? I have legal friends who would lose jobs and people I know in HR that might even go to jail. As the battle over illegal immigration heats up, I am getting closer and closer to making that call to INS. But I'm not there yet.

[masterrig 1]

Sounds like a 'Negative Impact' to me! I see that same type thing here, where I live. What used to be good paying oilfield jobs are going to illegals willing to work on drilling rigs and work-over rigs for half of what these jobs used to pay. They don't get raises, 2-weeks vacation, no benefits because they are worked under 'full-time'. You bet, they know other illegals! When a job opens-up where they are employed, they get on their cell-phone and call their friends or relatives back home and the job is filled! The company I used to work for, sold-out. the new owners, gradually fired all the old hands and hired hispanics for minnimum wage. So on and so on.
There are a lot of folks who look at this as no big deal. That's what America is al about... getting rich! What about the poor working stiff who wants and needs a job, who is a citizen of this country and would like the same things the 'fat cats' have but can't get a good job because some illegal is doing that job? It would appear that the name of the game is 'greed'. Plain and simple. That's why the spread between the very wealthy and the poor is getting greater. We were doing pretty good, before we had 12+ million illegals to deal with. Folks were working and making a decent living. I'm tired of hearing how these illegals only take the jobs that white men won't take. That's plain and simple bull-shit. Check the factories and assembly lines up North or the mid-West! The what used to be good paying construction jobs. The folks hiring them don't check 'papers'. The illegals can get all the paperwork and more they need to get the 'good' jobs. The I&NS needs to crack-down on employers who hire illegals and fine the hell out of them. I se 'negative' impact every day.


Chuck

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Sounds like a 'Negative Impact' to me! I see that same type thing here, where I live. What used to be good paying oilfield jobs are going to illegals willing to work on drilling rigs and work-over rigs for half of what these jobs used to pay. They don't get raises, 2-weeks vacation, no benefits because they are worked under 'full-time'. You bet, they know other illegals! When a job opens-up where they are employed, they get on their cell-phone and call their friends or relatives back home and the job is filled! The company I used to work for, sold-out. the new owners, gradually fired all the old hands and hired hispanics for minnimum wage. So on and so on.
There are a lot of folks who look at this as no big deal. That's what America is al about... getting rich! What about the poor working stiff who wants and needs a job, who is a citizen of this country and would like the same things the 'fat cats' have but can't get a good job because some illegal is doing that job? It would appear that the name of the game is 'greed'. Plain and simple. That's why the spread between the very wealthy and the poor is getting greater. We were doing pretty good, before we had 12+ million illegals to deal with. Folks were working and making a decent living. I'm tired of hearing how these illegals only take the jobs that white men won't take. That's plain and simple bull-shit. Check the factories and assembly lines up North or the mid-West! The what used to be good paying construction jobs. The folks hiring them don't check 'papers'. The illegals can get all the paperwork and more they need to get the 'good' jobs. The I&NS needs to crack-down on employers who hire illegals and fine the hell out of them. I se 'negative' impact every day.


Chuck

Damn, Chuck, I've been told by people on this site that these immigrants are just "ole Pedro" sauntering in from Mexico because he and his family are starving and he just wants a menial farm job to support his family. Now you got "ole Pedro with high-tech cell phones, with V-Cast, organizing job pools for family and friends from back home, counterfeiting documents, and taking fairly high paying factory jobs. Heck, I was told they just wanted to pick beans and strawberries. Are you saying I've been misled?

[billvon 3,080]

Per the original question:

>How about wages being kept below industry standards?

Have YOUR wages been cut due to illegal immigration?

>Qualified citizens out of work?

Have YOU lost your job due to illegal immigration?

>An environment where employees are afraid to ask for raises or
>complain about poor working conditions?

Are YOU currently afraid to ask for things at work?

The original question was an interesting one. On sensitive topics, seems like everyone has a friend who's been affected. "I had a friend who was going to be in the Twin Towers that day." "My sister's best friend lost her job to an illegal." But the pool of people one knows can be nearly infinite - if one person lost their job to an illegal, 300 people here could know that person. It would seem like everyone is affected by illegal immigration.

But if you narrow it down to whether or not it affected _you_, then everyone here can only answer for one instance. If 100 people respond, and only one's been affected, then at least in our population the issue affects 1% of the people out there.

[Rookie120 0]

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Have YOUR wages been cut due to illegal immigration?

Yes, thats why I left.

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Have YOU lost your job due to illegal immigration?

How about not being able to get a job somewhere because it was already packed with illegals? Been there already.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[billvon 3,080]

>Yes, thats why I left.

Cool (well, not cool for you) but at least some hard data on the issue. Anyone else been directly affected?

[mnealtx 0]

I had a similar circumstance shortly after getting out of the military. To say I was surprised when I didn't get my promised raise after 6 months is an understatement...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Rookie120 0]

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Anyone else been directly affected?

Yeah, about 20 of my friends who got fired 2 weeks after the buses from Miami loaded with Cubans showed up. No FAA license, no way to know if they are trained in the craft. This is a place that does heavy checks on aircraft that YOU people fly on. United, American, Southwest, you name it it's done there. But hey, they just want jobs that I didnt want. Or didnt want when they cut the pay by over $20,000 a year.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[masterrig 1]

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Sounds like a 'Negative Impact' to me! I see that same type thing here, where I live. What used to be good paying oilfield jobs are going to illegals willing to work on drilling rigs and work-over rigs for half of what these jobs used to pay. They don't get raises, 2-weeks vacation, no benefits because they are worked under 'full-time'. You bet, they know other illegals! When a job opens-up where they are employed, they get on their cell-phone and call their friends or relatives back home and the job is filled! The company I used to work for, sold-out. the new owners, gradually fired all the old hands and hired hispanics for minnimum wage. So on and so on.
There are a lot of folks who look at this as no big deal. That's what America is al about... getting rich! What about the poor working stiff who wants and needs a job, who is a citizen of this country and would like the same things the 'fat cats' have but can't get a good job because some illegal is doing that job? It would appear that the name of the game is 'greed'. Plain and simple. That's why the spread between the very wealthy and the poor is getting greater. We were doing pretty good, before we had 12+ million illegals to deal with. Folks were working and making a decent living. I'm tired of hearing how these illegals only take the jobs that white men won't take. That's plain and simple bull-shit. Check the factories and assembly lines up North or the mid-West! The what used to be good paying construction jobs. The folks hiring them don't check 'papers'. The illegals can get all the paperwork and more they need to get the 'good' jobs. The I&NS needs to crack-down on employers who hire illegals and fine the hell out of them. I se 'negative' impact every day.


Chuck

Damn, Chuck, I've been told by people on this site that these immigrants are just "ole Pedro" sauntering in from Mexico because he and his family are starving and he just wants a menial farm job to support his family. Now you got "ole Pedro with high-tech cell phones, with V-Cast, organizing job pools for family and friends from back home, counterfeiting documents, and taking fairly high paying factory jobs. Heck, I was told they just wanted to pick beans and strawberries. Are you saying I've been misled?

______________________________

I love it, Gravitymaster! Hee, hee.
Hell yes you've been mis-led. The offer still stands... I'll give you the nickel tour. I see it every day... They might be living 2, 3 families to a house but, they got the goodies! The 2nd. 3rd. generation 'legals' that I know, don't like it either. Oh, did I mention the dope they push, too? Everyone of them has a Social Security card, a driver's license and a U.S. birth certificate. I get tired of going into a store only to be 'helped' by a non English speaker. Don't get me wrong. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Folks from Mars can come to this country... just do it legal. I don't like the fact either, the numbers of criminals that come with the flow of illegals.
You got me wound-up!


Chuck

[rehmwa 2]

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>Yes, thats why I left.

Cool (well, not cool for you) but at least some hard data on the issue. Anyone else been directly affected?

Nope, it's just Rookie120, 4 other citizens, and 3 legal immigrants people. These 8 people cover every single "friend affected" mentioned by all the posters and others in the country.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Rookie120 0]

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and 3 legal immigrants people

Ahhhhh, they were not legal. Sorry you assumed that point.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[DrewGPM 0]

since my wages were not affected, my experience with illegal immigration doesn't count? I recommended people for jobs and they didn't get the job because it was given to an illegal...and you're saying I'm not directly affected by that?

I took the initial post as a legitimate question to see how many people have been affected by illegal immigration. I understood it as not wanting to hear "I heard about this guy who..." or "according to the statistics". Which I like...those conversations tend to spread urban legends more than any real facts.

My story was neither...it was based on people I worked with and companies I worked for. I talked to the illegals and to the legal people working next to them. Seeing my co-workers get screwed because management found a nice group of illegals...that affected me. Asking my friend why he didn't apply for a promotion and finding out the company won't promote him because he's illegal...that affected me. It changed the way I look at my friends, my coworker and my bosses.

What bothers me more than illegal immigration is people who imply that I have not been affected by it just because I never lost a job because of it.

If I misunderstood the orignal post, then I apologize for adding my two cents. An illegal immigrant has never taken my job, hit my car or dealt drugs to me.

[skydyvr 0]

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Have YOUR wages . . .

Have YOU lost your job . . .

Are YOU currently afraid . . .

Please remember this line of argument next time you state your views on Privacy and National Security.

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,080]

>since my wages were not affected, my experience with illegal
>immigration doesn't count?

Not at all. Just trying to avoid the Allison Krause syndrome by getting information on what has actually happened to people here (rather than their friends, people they know etc.)

[narcimund 0]

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Have YOUR wages . . .

Have YOU lost your job . . .

Are YOU currently afraid . . .

Please remember this line of argument next time you state your views on Privacy and National Security.

And you should please remember YOUR dismissal of BillVon's attempt to gather even SLIGHTLY reliably anecdotal evidence at the very same time.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[skydyvr 0]

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And you should please remember YOUR dismissal of BillVon's attempt to gather even SLIGHTLY reliably anecdotal evidence at the very same time.

Ok, I've un-dismissed it. What was the purpose of gathering the evidence? Maybe I should just ask Bill!

. . =(_8^(1)

[kallend 2,112]

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Have YOUR wages . . .

Have YOU lost your job . . .

Are YOU currently afraid . . .

Please remember this line of argument next time you state your views on Privacy and National Security.

Well, if your reading skills are up to snuff you would read the original question in post #1 of the thread correctly and not need my emphasis to comprehend it:

"Other than the use of public services, can anyone give me a specific example of the negative impact of an illegal immigrant has had directly on you. "

Seems pretty damn clear to me. Directly on you does not mean on your cousin's co-worker's mother.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.