Immigration...

[billvon 3,120]

>This sounds a lot like presuming guilt, imposing and carrying out
> sentence without judicial process, and leaving it to the convict to
> retroactively prove their innocence and obtain a pardon.

They do the same thing to me. The IRS keeps about $10k of my money every year; they don't give it back to me until 6-18 months later. The amounts we're talking about here are much lower.

[narcimund 0]

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>This sounds a lot like presuming guilt, imposing and carrying out
> sentence without judicial process, and leaving it to the convict to
> retroactively prove their innocence and obtain a pardon.

They do the same thing to me. The IRS keeps about $10k of my money every year; they don't give it back to me until 6-18 months later. The amounts we're talking about here are much lower.

Of course they do. I wasn't asking you if the bad policy you're advocating had precedent or not.

I was asking if you understood how bad it is.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[justinb138 0]

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I was asking if you understood how bad it is.

You got any better ideas?

[narcimund 0]

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You got any better ideas?

Excellent. Bill defends his bad suggestion by saying it's no worse than the bad things that happen to him.

You defend it by insinuating that I'm not qualified to say it's bad.

Apparently neither of you can actually defend the idea on its merits.

Clap clap.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[billvon 3,120]

>I was asking if you understood how bad it is.

I don't think it's ideal. I think it's a reasonable compromise between letting them keep 100% of what they earn legally, or letting them keep 58% of that they earn illegally.

If you want to start another thread about the evils of the IRS, feel free.

[justinb138 0]

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Excellent. Bill defends his bad suggestion by saying it's no worse than the bad things that happen to him.

Well, at least his idea is something that has a chance of working. I've yet to hear any other good ideas.

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You defend it by insinuating that I'm not qualified to say it's bad.

I never insinuated you weren't qualified to say it's bad, I was just curious if you had any better ideas.


lighten up...

[masterrig 1]

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I beleive that the immigration issue is a problem. But it is not a new problem. If it was, we wouldn't have 11 MILLION illegal immigrants here all of a sudden.

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that just as soon as Bush's aproval rating hit the floor (mainly because of Iraq), the immigration issue came to light? Why all of a sudden? I think to give him a war that is close to home that the American public can take up. One that they can touch, that affects them at home. One that they can see, touch, actually feel, and feel like they personally can make a difference one way on another.

And all of this takes attention away from Iraq and what is or is not happening over there.

Don't get me wrong, I support both"wars" in one way or another. I just think that it is an idea that needs to be brought to light.

_____________________________________

You are so right! The illegal alien problem has been with us for a very long time. The real problem started when 'raids' on businesses was halted. You can thank the lobbyists for that. I recall, back in the 70's, 80's, we read of raids on businesses for illegal aliens. Then, all of a sudden they stopped. Big business found a way to hire them and get away with it. Raids wre started-up here, recently and there was such a scream in this country! Well, the I&NS, backed-off. To keep the flow of 'cheap' labor coming, such programs as 'catch and release' were implemented. Basically, when an illegal was apprehended, he was given a 'promise to appear' summons and let go... catch & release. You have more than enough fingers on one hand to count the number of illegals who 'appeared'. When businesses who hire illegals are fined and fined 'stiffly', stripped of their illegal help. Much of the problem will go away. You stop and think about how many illegals sneak across the border and take-p living here and multiply that number by 5-yrs., that is a lot of people and we're running out of room. The politicians, need to get off their collective butts and do something about it. It could get real ugly, on our Southwest border!


Chuck

[narcimund 0]

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If you want to start another thread about the evils of the IRS, feel free.

You're the one who invoked the IRS.

What really confuses me is you're complaining about the way the IRS treats you as if that were a defense of your proposal to treat other people even worse.

You're not arguing at your best today.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Andy9o8 2]

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>Interesting idea in principle; but on a practical level, how do you
>implement it in a way that's feasible?

Tax them at the highest US tax rate (42%?) If they stay in the country the US keeps the money. If they leave and go back to their home country, the US embassy there gives them all their back taxes upon presentation of their paycheck stub. That way we encourage good behavior (i.e. actually leaving when their job's over) and we keep the money if they don't show this good behavior.

That's fine; but of course that only works with people who are participants a formal guest-worker program, and assumes that everything's on the books. I was addressing more the situation of illegal immigrants getting paid cash under the table by an employer who's part of the problem, and not the solution. On a practical level, I'm not sure how we'll ever manage to collect wage taxes under those circumstances.

[billvon 3,120]

>That's fine; but of course that only works with people who are
>participants a formal guest-worker program, and assumes that
>everything's on the books.

No - I mean tax EVERYONE without a SS card at the 42% rate. If they live (legally) in the US and file a return they get it all back. If they are illegally working they never get it back. If they are legal migrant workers they get it back when they go back home.

>I was addressing more the situation of illegal immigrants getting
>paid cash under the table by an employer who's part of the problem,
> and not the solution.

That is indeed a problem - but having a common standard (i.e. 42% for everyone) can help with enforcement.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I was addressing more the situation of illegal immigrants getting paid cash under the table by an employer who's part of the problem, and not the solution. On a practical level, I'm not sure how we'll ever manage to collect wage taxes under those circumstances.

We can withold tax when money is moved by people who can't provide sufficient evidence that their income is being reported and taxes paid.

This can be handled with the infrastructure already in place for sales taxes.

Merchants can withold an additional 42% sales tax and exempt social security card holders the same way they do people buying goods for resale or on behalf of government entities.

Wire transfer services can do the same.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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If they leave and go back to their home country, the US embassy there gives them all their back taxes upon presentation of their paycheck stub.

This sounds a lot like presuming guilt, imposing and carrying out sentence without judicial process, and leaving it to the convict to retroactively prove their innocence and obtain a pardon.

The IRS already does this in other cases. "Backup witholding" is applied to all payments reported on form 1099s when the recipient does not provide a valid SSID (FEIN for a business). Companys must withold social security taxes on all income you earn from them up to the cap regardless of what other employers have done in that tax year.

[narcimund 0]

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The IRS already does this in other cases. "Backup witholding" is applied to all payments reported on form 1099s when the recipient does not provide a valid SSID (FEIN for a business). Companys must withold social security taxes on all income you earn from them up to the cap regardless of what other employers have done in that tax year.

Uh yeah. Thanks...

Could you go read my responses to BillVon above and just take it as given that they apply to your post as well?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[masterrig 1]

I heard an interesting story, on this morning's news.
A California woman had quit her job to give birth to and raise her first child. After 7-yrs., she decided to get back into the work-force. After applying for jobs, she discovered that an illegal alien in Texas had her Social Security number. She also recieved a very large bill from the IRS for back taxes during the time she was out of work. Social Security would not issue her a new card. After much time and effort, the IRS gave her a '0' - balance. In the end, she is still trying to get the matter resolved, cannot work because noone will accept her Social Security card. On the other side, the illegal alien who holds her Social Security number is still working the same job, has still not paid any taxes and is still living in Texas. I also learned from this news story that a bill was recently passed where illegal aliens canrecieve Social Security benefits. Tell me, there's not a problem!


Chuck