Gun Control: Ban Orange Paint

[JohnRich 4]

News, from New York City:

Law would ban paint that disguises guns as toys

The city council will seek to ban gun painting kits that are used to make real firearms look like toys.

Mayor Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Kelly said guns painted in playful fluorescent colors endanger police officers who must assess risk in a split second when they are faced with someone brandishing a weapon.

Kelly did acknowledge that no painted guns are believed to have been used in city crimes or recovered by law enforcement officials, but said they learned of the paint kits through advertisements in gun enthusiast magazines.

To illustrate the danger, Bloomberg waved two handguns above his podium at the City Hall news conference, one real and one fake, but both painted like toys.

"Just imagine the tragic consequences of this kind of sick deception," he said.

Source: Newsday

Will banning the sale of colorful paint prevent criminals from painting their real guns to look like toys?

The best I can figure is this is a reference to something called DuroCoat, which is a metal finish with paint that is designed to prevent rust and be attractive. And yes, there is a variety of colors available. But it's not advertised as being useful in deceiving police by making a real gun look like a toy. This is a professional gun finish, that replaces finishes like phosphate and blueing, which involve the use of highly toxic chemical solutions, and expensive preparation equipment. Competitive shooters use it to apply graphics like a state flag, and hunters use it to create camoflauge patterns.

Sample Durocoat info.

As such, this is like banning black and white auto paint so that the criminals can't paint their cars to look like police cruisers...

Even if they ban these legitimate paint kits, what's to keep the bad guys from buying other types of colored paint at a hardware or hobby store?

Mayor Bloomberg is nuts.

[Lefty 0]

Awww...us gun nuts just took one to the head again. Confirm/deny Billvon? Anyway, good luck to the mayor trying to ban paint. Our "Equilibrium" style white-washed world has begun.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[Zipp0 1]

Hey, if I paint up my Makarov like this can I wave it around and play 'cops and robbers' with the kids at family picnics and such?

Zipp0

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[StreetScooby 5]

But, what will the paint ball players do?

We are all engines of karma

[skydyvr 0]

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Confirm/deny Billvon?

Is Billvon your "source"?

. . =(_8^(1)

[Genego 2]

Are we also going to ban black paint to keep criminals from painting toys to look real?

I have been in law enforcement for over 27 years, point something that looks like a gun at me and I will respond just like every other police officer would: Fire until the threat is over.

I live with fear and terror, but sometimes I leave her and go skydiving.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Are we also going to ban black paint to keep criminals from painting toys to look real?

I have been in law enforcement for over 27 years, point something that looks like a gun at me and I will respond just like every other police officer would: Fire until the threat is over.

BTW have you ever seen a cop fail to announce himself, in a dark area when the homeowner is looking for an intruder?

Good thing he lived to be reprimanded

[narcimund 0]

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BTW have you ever seen a cop fail to announce himself, in a dark area when the homeowner is looking for an intruder?

I assume that smart intruders announce themselves as police officers so the homeowner comes out of hiding unarmed. That would make it ever so much easier to kill them safely.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[SpeedRacer 1]

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BTW have you ever seen a cop fail to announce himself, in a dark area when the homeowner is looking for an intruder?

I assume that smart intruders announce themselves as police officers so the homeowner comes out of hiding unarmed. That would make it ever so much easier to kill them safely.

This brings up a good point. Suppose a homeowner hears an intruder in his house late at night. But a neighbor noticed the breakin from outside & had already phoned the police. If the homeowner gets his gun & confronts a man downstairs in the dark, it could lead to a very confusing situation.

I wonder how often it has happened that a homeowner mistook a cop for an intruder & it resulted in a shooting.

Speed Racer
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[JohnRich 4]

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Hey, if I paint up my Makarov like this can I wave it around and play 'cops and robbers' with the kids at family picnics and such?

Your joke brings up some of the lunacy surrounding this idea.

First of all, a criminal wants his gun to look real so that it will intimidate people into giving him their money. If his gun looks like a toy, people won't take him seriously.

But then when a cop arrives on the scene, suddenly he's going to whip out a spray kit and paint his gun to look like a toy, to fool the cops.

Sheesh.

[JohnRich 4]

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But, what will the paint ball players do?

Sacrifices have to be made. We just can't allow customized paint jobs on guns of any kind. If we make guns "pretty", people will like them more and be less afraid of them. And we can't have that!

[JohnRich 4]

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Are we also going to ban black paint to keep criminals from painting toys to look real?

Bingo! Bloomberg might as well pass a law saying that it's illegal to have any gun that is a color other than black. And that would be ridiculous. I'm not giving up my stainless steel .45.

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I have been in law enforcement for over 27 years, point something that looks like a gun at me and I will respond just like every other police officer would: Fire until the threat is over.

Correct. If an adult suspect points a gun at a cop, regardless of what color it is, they are justified in shooting in self defense. And we, the public, shouldn't give them any grief over it.

[billvon 3,132]

>If an adult suspect points a gun at a cop, regardless of what color
>it is, they are justified in shooting in self defense.

How about a twelve year old?

[JohnRich 4]

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>If an adult suspect points a gun at a cop, regardless of what color
>it is, they are justified in shooting in self defense.

How about a twelve year old?

Is a twelve year old an adult suspect?

[rehmwa 2]

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>If an adult suspect points a gun at a cop, regardless of what color
>it is, they are justified in shooting in self defense.

How about a twelve year old?

If an adult suspect points a gun at a twelve year old, the twelve year is justified in shooting in self defense.


really, age shouldn't matter, the cop should have the option to shoot in self defense, based on the situation and his training. he is not obligated to die in the line of duty

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,132]

>Is a twelve year old an adult?

Not in most places.

Do you feel a cop is justified in shooting a twelve year old who points a weapon at him?

[rehmwa 2]

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>Do you feel a cop is justified in shooting a twelve year old who points a weapon at him?

Does the cop consider his life is in jeopardy?
Do you expect the cop to die in that scenario?
Is there an age cutoff where you'd take that decision away from the cop?

Most cops I know would shoot at someone who is seriously/purposely threatening him regardless of age as long as the other appears to capable and ready to fire. But if it was a child who inadvertantly picked up a gun and didn't know what they were doing, these same cops would let themselves be shot rather than gun down that innocent.

Which scenario are you talking about?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,132]

>Does the cop consider his life is in jeopardy?

That's the $64,000 question. The orange barrel-insert thing is one way to help him make that call quickly, so it seems like a good thing overall - it helps prevent kids with toy guns being shot.

>Is there an age cutoff where you'd take that decision away from the cop?

I don't think trying to make a split second call on whether someone is 14 or 16 is reasonable to expect, so a hard age cutoff would seem like a bad idea.

[rehmwa 2]

So crooks find orange paint and that allows them to KILL some good cops. So eventually, the cops don't train on the orange as a reason to not shoot and an innocent, let's say, twelve year old, gets shot.

Do you blame the crooks that took advantage of the stupid law?
Do you blame the cop who doesn't want to die?

and I did bias the poll question

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnRich 4]

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Do you feel a cop is justified in shooting a twelve year old who points a weapon at him?

Depending upon the circumstances, yes.

I would hope that the officer would consider his response more carefully for a child, than for, say, an adult robber running out of a bank with a bag of cash in one hand and a gun in the other. The motives and possibilities for harm can vary greatly.

[billvon 3,132]

>So crooks find orange paint and that allows them to KILL some good
> cops. So eventually, the cops don't train on the orange as a reason
> to not shoot and an innocent, let's say, twelve year old, gets shot.

>Do you blame the crooks that took advantage of the stupid law?

Of course.

>Do you blame the cop who doesn't want to die?

Nope. But it is also worthwhile to make it easier for him to determine when he needs to use deadly force. Cops have a tough enough job as it is.

[Genego 2]

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>If an adult suspect points a gun at a cop, regardless of what color
>it is, they are justified in shooting in self defense.

How about a twelve year old?

I have a 12 year old who shoots quite well. The nature of firearms is such that raw physical strength isn't needed, which makes a 12 year old just as deadly as anyone else. The first rule of law enforcment is "go home at the end of your shift" I have the right to defend myself, and others.

I live with fear and terror, but sometimes I leave her and go skydiving.

[JohnRich 4]

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it is also worthwhile to make it easier for him (the cop) to determine when he needs to use deadly force.

Do you think that banning colored paint kits for guns is going to make it easier for a cop to decide when he can shoot in self defense?

[billvon 3,132]

>Do you think that banning colored paint kits for guns is going to make
>it easier for a cop to decide when he can shoot in self defense?

I think that reducing the number of people with real guns painted with the pattern used to identify toy guns would help. Making it illegal to so modify a gun that way would help, as would making it illegal to provide kits to do so. Since people can always get orange paint (and apply it quickly) it's not a 100% solution of course.

[justinb138 0]

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Since people can always get orange paint (and apply it quickly)

Which right there makes the ban pointless.