Pro Troops... Anti War.

[miked10270 0]

When you see the ABC News reports tonight, PLEASE remember what your troops are trained to do.

Any army (& Marines to cater to bodybuilding poofs who want to oil up in camo) is trained to be an aggressive force. Strangely, the most aggressive forces are actually defensive in nature.

They're trained to react to particular situations in particular ways. It's a bit like the saying: "Plan the Dive, then Dive the Plan".

So... before Y'All say "That's Terrible", think about their training and orders.... Think about how YOU would react in the same situation with the same training.... Think about WHY they're there.... THEN think about where the "blame" lies.

Not with the troops.

[end hissy-fit]

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[mnealtx 0]

Well said!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[shropshire 0]

Sure... but make sure that the bad ones dont get away with owt..... No cover ups.

Of course there's bad ones... otherwise The Judge Advocate General would not need a staff and would be out of a job and the Military prisons would be empty

Praise the great work but dont ignore the bad.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gawain 0]

My take on this stuff (as I passed by protestors tonight, and then pro-troop demonstrators, not having seen the ABC News report, having just returned from a brief BBQ gathering with the vice-President of the United States) is this:

You don't support the troops if you don't support their mission.

No one likes to lose. Why, oh why, would anyone provide such conditional support to people that volunteer for the job, regardless of what the specific function is. Everyone I've seen (and I've seen more than most) sees this as the real deal. "They are there because they are not here" is another way to look at it. I can imagine, that the only other profession where there is such conditional support would be being a policeman.

Being a tramatically wounded veteran, I have no sympathy for those that say, "I signed up to pay for college ."

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[quade 4]

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You don't support the troops if you don't support their mission.

Gawain --

You have a perspective on this that few of us will ever have. Even though we have sparred on certain topics over the years I respect the sacrifices you have personally made and will continue to make in the name of our country. I deeply respect you as a person.

You need to understand that most Americans, with very few exceptions (nut cases), actually do support the troops whether or not they support the reasons for them being in Iraq. Unlike the Viet Nam war, I know of absolutely no large scale hostility between the American people and the troops. Virtually no American is ever going to walk up to you, spit in your face and call you a "baby killer". That non-support of the troops simply does not exist.

For the most part, the troops honorably carry out a mission few of us can truly understand the horrors of, but the mission does not come from the troops; it comes from politics and politics alone.

Few people in their right mind would ever confuse the two.

The two things are completely -separate- issues.

If you passed by protesters tonight, they were not protesting you. They were protesting the politics that got you into the situation.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[warpedskydiver 0]

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My take on this stuff (as I passed by protestors tonight, and then pro-troop demonstrators, not having seen the ABC News report, having just returned from a brief BBQ gathering with the vice-President of the United States) is this:

You don't support the troops if you don't support their mission.

No one likes to lose. Why, oh why, would anyone provide such conditional support to people that volunteer for the job, regardless of what the specific function is. Everyone I've seen (and I've seen more than most) sees this as the real deal. "They are there because they are not here" is another way to look at it. I can imagine, that the only other profession where there is such conditional support would be being a policeman.

Being a tramatically wounded veteran, I have no sympathy for those that say, "I signed up to pay for college ."

We used to transfer those guys out, maybe they needed a new line of work.

[Gawain 0]

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Few people in their right mind would ever confuse the two.
... ... ...
If you passed by protesters tonight, they were not protesting you. They were protesting the politics that got you into the situation.

Quade -- please do not think for a minute that I hold any true contempt in this forum, I was simply using strong statements to express my view. And by the way, I totally respect you as well. You're one of the few dz.commers I've met. It's all good.

However, such statements do, in fact, confuse the two. The troops are an instrument of the political policy. The mission is defined by such policies. The protestors are, in effect, asking their favorite team to stop playing in the middle of fourth quarter.

If these protestors are against the politics of the situation, then their picketing outside an Army Medical Center is pretty much retarded in my view. They need to work their way south towards Pennsylvania Avenue if they want their message to be seen by those the develop policy.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[akarunway 1]

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Few people in their right mind would ever confuse the two.
... ... ...
If you passed by protesters tonight, they were not protesting you. They were protesting the politics that got you into the situation.

Quade -- please do not think for a minute that I hold any true contempt in this forum, I was simply using strong statements to express my view. And by the way, I totally respect you as well. You're one of the few dz.commers I've met. It's all good.

However, such statements do, in fact, confuse the two. The troops are an instrument of the political policy. The mission is defined by such policies. The protestors are, in effect, asking their favorite team to stop playing in the middle of fourth quarter.

If these protestors are against the politics of the situation, then their picketing outside an Army Medical Center is pretty much retarded in my view. They need to work their way south towards Pennsylvania Avenue if they want their message to be seen by those the develop policy.

And how far do yo think they would get trying to go to?>Contacting the White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, DC 20500. Phone Numbers Comments: 202-456-1111 Switchboard: 202-456-1414 FAX: 202-456-2461, TTY/TDD ...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[warpedskydiver 0]

If these protestors are against the politics of the situation, then their picketing outside an Army Medical Center is pretty much retarded in my view. They need to work their way south towards Pennsylvania Avenue if they want their message to be seen by those the develop policy.

[bloody_trauma 2]

"You don't support the troops if you don't support their mission."

General William Westmoreland once was quoted as saying that is was his fate to have served in the most unpopular war in this country's history, the united states has historically stood by its fighting forces but with one arm outstretched as if they didnt want to get hurt, It's good that you support the troops we appreciate that greatly. but there is a line drawn, you cannot appreciate the people who are specifically there to do the will of thier country and not support the leader of the country's leader, he was elected for us and by us and as such any calls that he makes are justified, he didn't just go to war on a whim, it had to be approved. i'm not trying to say that if you are against the war than you can;t possibley be for the troops, but i am saying don't be a hipocrate, don't say good for you soldier sorry you had to fight for us, we werent drafted, and we don't do this because we were duped, we chose this life, and as such we do what is asked of us

Fly it like you stole it

[shropshire 0]

Did Westmoreland always make such little sense?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[bloody_trauma 2]

please do us all a favor...

Edited to remove PA. Your one warning.

Fly it like you stole it

[JohnnyD 0]

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You don't support the troops if you don't support their mission.

Couldn't disagree more.
Troops don't set foreign policy.
Troops don't get to decide which wars to fight.
Troops don't get to decide which battles to fight.
Troops get to open wide and try to drink the ocean of shit coming downhill in the firehose. Period.

I support the troops 100%.
I support the war (Iraq not Afghanistan) 0%

Thanks for your service. I hope in some meager way you get 1/100th from your country of what you have given to it. All I can offer is my sincerest thanks.

[gravityizsexy 0]

In case you missed it, there was no war in afghanistan, it was more like a massacre.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[Gawain 0]

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You don't support the troops if you don't support their mission.

Couldn't disagree more.
Troops don't set foreign policy.

Which is why when troops are assigned a mission to execute that policy, supporting them means supporting their successful completion of the mission. That is why they exist. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Which is why when troops are assigned a mission to execute that policy, supporting them means supporting their successful completion of the mission.

We do want the troops to succeed. At least I do.

I still disagree with the invasion. But we're there already, and so I hope for a successful outcome. Can't change the past.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[JohnnyD 0]

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In case you missed it, there was no war in afghanistan, it was more like a massacre.

Flying jets into the world trade centers and killing thousands was a massacre. The actions of the US in Afghanistan was a measured response. There is still much to be done there. In case you missed it, OBL is still around.

[JohnnyD 0]

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You don't support the troops if you don't support their mission.

Couldn't disagree more.
Troops don't set foreign policy.

Which is why when troops are assigned a mission to execute that policy, supporting them means supporting their successful completion of the mission. That is why they exist. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Troops are just a tool. I don't like armed robbery but its not because of the gun, its because of the person employing the gun. Troops are much the same in that they have no choice in how they will be used.
While I may disagree completely with the manner in which the troops are being used, I understand that they are in a situation not of their own making. They have a job to do and they will get it done.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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You don't support the troops if you don't support their mission.

Couldn't disagree more.
Troops don't set foreign policy.

Which is why when troops are assigned a mission to execute that policy, supporting them means supporting their successful completion of the mission. That is why they exist. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Troops are just a tool. I don't like armed robbery but its not because of the gun, its because of the person employing the gun. Troops are much the same in that they have no choice in how they will be used.
While I may disagree completely with the manner in which the troops are being used, I understand that they are in a situation not of their own making. They have a job to do and they will get it done.

Most of the troops disagree with you. They support their mission. They are not the hapless dupes you seem to think they are. Ever seen the re-enlistment figures to go back to Iraq or Afghanistan for a second or third tour? It's about 96%.

[JohnnyD 0]

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Most of the troops disagree with you. They support their mission. They are not the hapless dupes you seem to think they are. Ever seen the re-enlistment figures to go back to Iraq or Afghanistan for a second or third tour? It's about 96%.

I'm not saying they don't. Psychologically, I would expect that. Its their job. Their life. Been there and done that. That said, I stand by my assertion that the troops and the missions, policies and wars are seperate and distinct. I can support either while not supporting the other.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Most of the troops disagree with you. They support their mission. They are not the hapless dupes you seem to think they are. Ever seen the re-enlistment figures to go back to Iraq or Afghanistan for a second or third tour? It's about 96%.

I'm not saying they don't. Psychologically, I would expect that. Its their job. Their life. Been there and done that. That said, I stand by my assertion that the troops and the missions, policies and wars are seperate and distinct. I can support either while not supporting the other.

Most I know would prefer you supported them and their mission.

[JohnnyD 0]

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Most I know would prefer you supported them and their mission.

I would prefer it too, but its just not reality.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Most I know would prefer you supported them and their mission.

I would prefer it too, but its just not reality.

I think being in Iraq, on a mission you believe in, gives someone a better perspective and greater sense of reality than making judgements from the couch by reading a newspaper or a website.

[JohnnyD 0]

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Most I know would prefer you supported them and their mission.

I would prefer it too, but its just not reality.

I think being in Iraq, on a mission you believe in, gives someone a better perspective and greater sense of reality than making judgements from the couch by reading a newspaper or a website.

No question about it. If you start to question yourself, bad things can happen to you and those around you. Its important for the people on the ground to be 100 percent in to what they are doing.

[billvon 3,085]

>supporting them means supporting their successful completion of the mission.

Consider whether you support the government of the United States, and if that equates to supporting Bill Clinton (while he was in office.) You can support one and not the other.