"Dead" Everest Climber Alive, and being rescued.

[Zipp0 1]

As I said in another thread, rescues on 8000 meter peaks are not impossible.

'Dead' Everest climber 'is alive'

Dozens of people have perished attempting to scale Everest

An Australian man believed to have died as he descended Mount Everest has been found alive.

Lincoln Hall, 50, was presumed to have died on Thursday when he was left behind by his Sherpas after he started hallucinating and refusing to move.

But another climber found Mr Hall still alive on Friday, triggering a large-scale rescue effort.

Duncan Chessell, whose company DCXL is helping in the rescue, said Mr Hall remained in "grave danger".

"It's going to be a miracle if he can get out of it. He is in bad shape," he said.

The incident came amid continuing controversy over whether a New Zealand climber, Mark Inglis, was right to leave behind British climber David Sharp, who died on Mount Everest earlier this month.

Tea and oxygen

Mr Hall, an experienced climber, reached the summit of Everest on Thursday.

Another member of the climb, German Thomas Weber, died shortly before reaching the summit, according to a statement issued by expedition leader Alexander Abramov.

Mr Hall became weak as he and two Sherpas descended, and then became incoherent and semi-conscious, according to Mr Chessell, who had been informed of events by radio.

The Sherpas tried to move Mr Hall down the mountain, but after several hours' effort and running out of oxygen, they were told by their expedition leader to leave him behind, Mr Chessell said, speaking in Australia.

Mr Abramov's statement said Mr Hall had died as he descended.

But on Friday, an American climber - Dan Mazur - came across Mr Hall and found he had survived the night, at more than 8,000m (24,000ft) and was still alive.

After giving him hot tea and oxygen, a radio call was made to Mr Abramov, who ordered an urgent rescue mission.

Mr Chessell warned that it was too early to say if the rescue would be successful.

"It's a big risk for them to go up there. It will take at least three days to get him back to safety," he said.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[akarunway 1]

I don't know a lot about that type of stuff. Why can't they send a rescue chopper up?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[lawrocket 3]

I don't think there is a chopper that can fly at 29,000 feet. At least not in production or available (didn't the French build one that flew at that altitude a couple of years ago?)

Also, I can't help but think that the fuss surrounding the leaving behind of the other climber is somewhat responsible for this. It's kind of a reminder to every other climber there, isn't it. And this seems to be a particularly deadly season...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,120]

>Why can't they send a rescue chopper up?

Thin air. Most helicopters have IGE (in ground effect) hover ceilings around 10,000-15,000 feet. There has been one heavily modified helicopter from Eurocopter that's managed to land on the summit of Everest, but that was more for a promotional trick than to demonstrate its feasibility.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

I don't know a lot about that type of stuff. Why can't they send a rescue chopper up?

I don't want to slam you, but yes it's clear that you don't know much about Everest and mountaineering. First off there was a specialty built helicopter which did indeed make it to the top of Everest a few years ago, but it was the exception to the rule. A normal rescue helicopter has no chance of making it up that high. The air is just too thin to allow the helicopter to fly. Secondly, climbers know that their bodies start to die above the death zone (approximately 26,000 feet MSL) and with Everest topping out above 29,000 feet, it takes a monumental feat to be able to rescue someone who's faltered in the death zone. Everest is littered with corpses of failed climbs. A hundred or so of them lay up there along with all the spent oxygen bottles and other climbing gear. It is the highest graveyard/landfill in the world.

This seems to be a particularily bad year on Everest (like '96), but climbers are dying on it every year and will continue die now that commercial climbing operations market Everest to the "I need to check that offer before I die" crowd. A few years back before I got into skydiving and was into mountaineering, I wanted to visit the Everest region and climb a semi-technical peek (like Island Peak) and maybe visit base camp. But I have no desire to attempt to climb (and die on) Everest.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

> There has been one heavily modified helicopter from Eurocopter that's managed to land on the summit of Everest, .

WOW, I didn't know that

Edit: SHROP - thanks for the pics. That is amazing, I had no idea a design could even generate enough lift with that air.......... I bet it flew like a dog (that is, very uncomfortable and lots of wobble) - bet the pilot was on edge the entire time

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[shropshire 0]

some picies....clicky

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[downwardspiral 0]

Quote

>Why can't they send a rescue chopper up?

Thin air. Most helicopters have IGE (in ground effect) hover ceilings around 10,000-15,000 feet. There has been one heavily modified helicopter from Eurocopter that's managed to land on the summit of Everest, but that was more for a promotional trick than to demonstrate its feasibility.

I'll second, third, and fourth that WOW. A while ago, in the USMC, I was a CH-53E Super Sea Stallion crewchief which is the baddest, most powerfull helicopter currently known to man. Anytime we landed or took off from LZs sitting at or above 10,000' MSL I was scared shitless. How the hell were they able to take a single engine, 3 rotor blade helo and land it on top of Everest?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[shropshire 0]

Better power to weight ratio? Those Stallions might be powerfull, but must weigh a fair bit.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[vortexring 0]

Quote

>Why can't they send a rescue chopper up?

Thin air. Most helicopters have IGE (in ground effect) hover ceilings around 10,000-15,000 feet. There has been one heavily modified helicopter from Eurocopter that's managed to land on the summit of Everest, but that was more for a promotional trick than to demonstrate its feasibility.

Alright Bill - IGE = inside ground effect = the extra lift generated from the downdraft (coming off the ground!) from the blades. Basically there is a reduced power requirement to stay airborne. This downdraft creates a groundcushion - watch heli's hovertaxi - they're using that groundcushion to increase the lift component - hence there being 5/10ft off the ground. Er..your ceiling altitude is about right - but mate, your miles out of IGE here!
(normally at around 15/20ft dependant on heli' type + wind conditions/relative direction)

At altitude heli's are a pain in the arse to fly - everythings having to work so much harder - the gas turbine engines will be at max. temperatures's as will Ng and Nf. The controls will be unresponsive as hell. From the reduced air pressure there is no "bite."

p.s. Rotorheads stateside call "Vortexring" settling without power.

p.p.s. No chance of a heli picking up the poor bloke at that altitude.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[skymedic 0]

Quote

This seems to be a particularily bad year on Everest (like '96), but climbers are dying on it every year and will continue die now that commercial climbing operations market Everest to the "I need to check that offer before I die" crowd.

People will die on this mountain regardless of commercial operations or not. It is a nature of the beast. Just like people will continue to die on any 8,000 meter peak. Life sucks that high.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[miked10270 0]

Quote

Quote

> There has been one heavily modified helicopter from Eurocopter that's managed to land on the summit of Everest, .

WOW, I didn't know that

Further to that, Eurocopter claim that it was a standard Astar, unmodified, and did the landings with a crew of 2 on board. and while it was in Nepal for the month of the attempt it also did some mountain rescue work (but none as high as 29,053ft).

It's great publicity. IF you were shopping for a rescue helicopter, or even a general purpose helicopter, what would you buy? Eurocopter have forced themselves onto everyone's shortlist with this feat.

"With this landing on the top of the world, EUROCOPTER demonstrates that its technological innovations provide its products a length - height - ahead, set at the disposal of its worldwide customers."


http://www.mounteverest.net/story/FrenchEverestMysteryChoppersUtopiasummit-VIDEOMay272005.shtml

But... Did it land there? or is this another tall French tale of heroic success against overwhelming odds?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4152854.stm

http://www.everestnews.com/stories2005/everestcopter06032005.htm

http://www.shephard.co.uk/rotorhub/Default.aspx?Action=745115149&ID=51d836c4-2c1c-4854-a093-82d4ca8c3dde

So... Did it landon the SUMMIT of Everest? Eurocopter says "OUI did" ...but The Nepalese Civil Aviation Authority doesn't agree!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[jakee 1,596]

Quote

A while ago, in the USMC, I was a CH-53E Super Sea Stallion crewchief which is the baddest, most powerfull helicopter currently known to man. Anytime we landed or took off from LZs sitting at or above 10,000' MSL I was scared shitless. How the hell were they able to take a single engine, 3 rotor blade helo and land it on top of Everest?

I'd imagine the CH-53E has pretty outdated rotor technology by now?

Quote

they're using that groundcushion to increase the lift component - hence there being 5/10ft off the ground. Er..your ceiling altitude is about right - but mate, your miles out of IGE here!
(normally at around 15/20ft dependant on heli' type + wind conditions/relative direction)

Surely Bill's 10,000-15,000ft refers to AMSL, at which height its perfectly possible to be 5/10ft AGL in the right part of the world.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[vortexring 0]

Well Bill did say IGE not AMSL - so why don't you ask him what exactly he meant!?

Please let me know the answer - it's so fucking important!

p.s. Isn't the MI 26 Halo more powerful?

Or the chinook even?

Regarding the "baddest" I reckon that award goes to the old Skeeter - pretty horrible to fly and unreliable I'm told....

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[miked10270 0]

Quote

Isn't the MI 26 Halo more powerful?

Or the chinook even?

Regarding the "baddest" I reckon that award goes to the old Skeeter - pretty horrible to fly and unreliable I'm told....

There are plenty of helicopters around that're A LOT more powerful than the Astar 350-B3. They're also an even bigger lot heavier!

Russia had always dominated the heavy lift & high performance helicopter arena:

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avhvmil.html

The more so under the old soviet doctrine of producing designs to outdo "The West"! It runs in my mind that there was an MI-13 - a real monster with two rotors which never went past prototypes, a few records for payload to altitude, and a couple of airshows.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

People will die on this mountain regardless of commercial operations or not.

Never said mountaineering was a safe activity. There is a woman who I work with who recently summited Aconcagua (South America's tallest peak at 22,835 feet) and while I believe she knows this, I had a hard time at work trying to convince some people that she was taking just as many risks with her life than I was being a skydiver. Everest has just turned into a commercial mountain with many of the world's best climbers now seeking other peaks to get away from the crowds and the litter.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[vortexring 0]

Quote

Quote

Isn't the MI 26 Halo more powerful?

Or the chinook even?

Regarding the "baddest" I reckon that award goes to the old Skeeter - pretty horrible to fly and unreliable I'm told....

There are plenty of helicopters around that're A LOT more powerful than the Astar 350-B3. They're also an even bigger lot heavier!

Russia had always dominated the heavy lift & high performance helicopter arena:

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avhvmil.html

The more so under the old soviet doctrine of producing designs to outdo "The West"! It runs in my mind that there was an MI-13 - a real monster with two rotors which never went past prototypes, a few records for payload to altitude, and a couple of airshows.

Mike.

haha Mike!

I meant more powerful than the CH-53!

Not the Eurocopter! In the UK the Defence Flying School use a similiar model generically known as the Squirrel HT1 and HT2 - I know it pretty well, haha

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[billvon 3,120]

>but mate, your miles out of IGE here! (normally at around 15/20ft
>dependant on heli' type + wind conditions/relative direction)

Right - but if you are attempting a takeoff at 29,000 feet MSL, you are still in ground effect for the first 15-20 feet (AGL.) Which makes it easier to get the thing off the ground.

[miked10270 0]

Quote

haha Mike!

I meant more powerful than the CH-53!

The Mi-12. Nato codename (appropriately enough) is Homer!

Lifted 40 tonnes compared to the CH-53's 33 tonnes, on around 25% more power that the CH-53.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[vortexring 0]

>Thin air. Most helicopters have IGE (in ground effect) hover ceilings around 10,000-15,000 feet. <

Bill -I don't understand you mate! Your contradicting yourself now - see!

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[miked10270 0]

Quote

>Thin air. Most helicopters have IGE (in ground effect) hover ceilings around 10,000-15,000 feet. <

Bill -I don't understand you mate! Your contradicting yourself now - see!

Makes perfect sense.

Most helicopters can hoer "In-Groud-Effect" on less power than hovering at altitude. A helicopter which neds full power to hover at 10,000ft above sea level in clear air will hover at around 13,000ft above sea level if it's within 20(ish) feet of the ground and can get the assistance of ground-effect.

Perhaps the best visualisation of ground effect is the Ekranoplan which effectively flys in ground effect on less than half a wing.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[vortexring 0]

Ah, I'm seeing it from the different angle now - ok, I misunderstood Bill. I thought he didn't quite get the IGE thing. Sorry Bill!

And I fly them for a living......

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[jakee 1,596]

Quote

And I fly them for a living......[Crazy]

So maybe it was so fucking important that you understood what we were talking about

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[vortexring 0]

Nah, the context was regarding what Bill meant.

I'm sure Bills a great guy, but whatever he thinks has the same impact on my job as the colour of bicycle pumps in Western Samoa has.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'