First amendment under attack

[livendive 8]

Quote

From USC Title 18:

Quote

§ 798. Disclosure of classified information

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4) obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

Looks like they COULD conceivably slam the reporter as well, although it seems a bit unclear.

You could be right, though I imagine there'd be one hell of a fight over the part I bolded. Also, if the reporter is not aware that the information is classified, then they'll pass the "knowingly and willfully" test that starts the paragraph.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[mnealtx 0]

That's a valid point, although I would stipulate that "for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States" would be more likely to apply.

Another one to look at is § 793, specifically sections b-e:
(emphasis mine)

Quote

(b) Whoever, for the purpose aforesaid, and with like intent or reason to believe, copies, takes, makes, or obtains, or attempts to copy, take, make, or obtain, any sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, document, writing, or note of anything connected with the national defense; or

(c) Whoever, for the purpose aforesaid, receives or obtains or agrees or attempts to receive or obtain from any person, or from any source whatever, any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note, of anything connected with the national defense, knowing or having reason to believe, at the time he receives or obtains, or agrees or attempts to receive or obtain it, that it has been or will be obtained, taken, made, or disposed of by any person contrary to the provisions of this chapter; or

(d) Whoever, lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or

(e) Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or

or in § 794, sections a and b (again, emphasis mine):

Quote

(a) Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or to any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, or to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance, or information relating to the national defense, shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life, except that the sentence of death shall not be imposed unless the jury or, if there is no jury, the court, further finds that the offense resulted in the identification by a foreign power (as defined in section 101(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978) of an individual acting as an agent of the United States and consequently in the death of that individual, or directly concerned nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large-scale attack; war plans; communications intelligence or cryptographic information; or any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy.

(b) Whoever, in time of war, with intent that the same shall be communicated to the enemy, collects, records, publishes, or communicates, or attempts to elicit any information with respect to the movement, numbers, description, condition, or disposition of any of the Armed Forces, ships, aircraft, or war materials of the United States, or with respect to the plans or conduct, or supposed plans or conduct of any naval or military operations, or with respect to any works or measures undertaken for or connected with, or intended for the fortification or defense of any place, or any other information relating to the public defense, which might be useful to the enemy, shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life.

Looks like the reporter could be held liable as well...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[livendive 8]

Quote

That's a valid point, although I would stipulate that "for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States" would be more likely to apply.

How would revealing that the US Government is intercepting domestic phone calls and collecting call records of its citizens be for the benefit of a foreign government? It seems to me more likely they'd go for the "prejudicial against the United States", and the defense would argue that their intent was to be for the benefit of the United States.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

That's a valid point, although I would stipulate that "for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States" would be more likely to apply.

How would revealing that the US Government is intercepting domestic phone calls and collecting call records of its citizens be for the benefit of a foreign government? It seems to me more likely they'd go for the "prejudicial against the United States", and the defense would argue that their intent was to be for the benefit of the United States.

Blues,
Dave

In the specific instance of discussing the call records, I agree. My point was in response to the posts about publication of classified info, however.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[sfc 1]

Quote

From USC Title 18:

Quote

§ 798. Disclosure of classified information

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4) obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

Looks like they COULD conceivably slam the reporter as well, although it seems a bit unclear.

This is a law, not part of the constitution.

The media is part of the checks and balances that keeps the government honest, they are screwing with the checks and balances, just like they preventing you taking them to court by waving the "national security" flag.
Just how far do they have to go before you realise they are trampling the constitution?

[mnealtx 0]

If the current law is bad, then it needs to be challenged. Until that time, it's still the law.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

If the current law is bad, then it needs to be challenged. Until that time, it's still the law.

The law was clarified with the case of the Pentagon Papers. The media won.

BTW, aside from Geraldo, who was probably in a studio in LA, have you got any real examples of the media releasing classified data willy nilly? Why debate a bullshit hypothetical?

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

Quote

If the current law is bad, then it needs to be challenged. Until that time, it's still the law.

The law was clarified with the case of the Pentagon Papers. The media won.

BTW, aside from Geraldo, who was probably in a studio in LA, have you got any real examples of the media releasing classified data willy nilly? Why debate a bullshit hypothetical?

Are your sure he wasn't in Al Capone's vault?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Why debate a bullshit hypothetical?

Isn't that what this whole thread is doing?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

the jailing of reporters isn't hypothetical.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

the jailing of reporters isn't hypothetical.

Make up your mind. Either they reported classified info and were in violation of several chapters of USC 18 or they weren't... which was it?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[sfc 1]

Quote

Quote

Why debate a bullshit hypothetical?

Isn't that what this whole thread is doing?

No, go back and read the first and second post, the thread is about the adminstration's plans to trample the 1st. It is not hypothetical. I think someone sidetracked the main issue.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Why debate a bullshit hypothetical?

Isn't that what this whole thread is doing?

No, go back and read the first and second post, the thread is about the adminstration's plans to trample the 1st. It is not hypothetical. I think someone sidetracked the main issue.

Hate to tell you this, but if you look at the information I've posted, fed.gov has been able to do that gor quite some time.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

And, to answer the other question... If I were to knowingly relase classified information, I would go to jail... why shouldn't the reporters, if they do it?

The reporter doesn't have a clearance and has made no agreement to keep certain information secret. You do have a clearance (presumably) and have agreed to be accountable for such information. That's a pretty big difference.

Blues,
Dave

You can be and most like WILL be charged if you are found to be in possession of classified docs even if you don't have a clearance.

You can be charged if you have a clearance but had no NEED TO KNOW.