warpedskydiver 0 #1 May 19, 2006 In this April 6, 2006 file photo, reviewed by U.S. Military officials, a detainee walks and others... U.N. Says U.S. Should Close Gitmo Prison Friday, May 19, 2006 6:28 AM EDT The Associated Press By SAM CAGE Listen to Audio GENEVA (AP) — The United States should close its prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and avoid using secret detention facilities in its war on terror, a U.N. panel report released Friday said. In an 11-page report on its review of U.S. adherence to the Treaty Against Torture, the committee said detainees should not be returned to any state where they could face a "real risk" of being tortured. "The state party should cease to detain any person at Guantanamo Bay and close the detention facility," said the U.N. Committee Against Torture, a panel of 10 independent experts on adherence to the U.N. Convention Against Torture. The United States should also ensure that no one is detained in secret detention facilities under its control and disclose the existence of any such places, the report said. The committee said it was concerned that detainees were being held for protracted periods with insufficient legal safeguards and without judicial assessment of the justification for their detention. The committee was also concerned about allegations that the United States has established secret prisons, where the international Red Cross does not have access to the detainees. "The state party should ensure that no one is detained in any secret detention facility under its de facto effective control," the report said. "The state party should investigate and disclose the existence of any such facilities and the authority under which they have been established and the manner in which detainees are treated." The report also said the United States must "eradicate" all forms of torture committed by its personnel in Afghanistan and Iraq and investigate allegations thoroughly, prosecuting any staff found guilty. "The state party should take immediate measures to eradicate all forms of torture and ill-treatment of detainees by its military or civilian personnel, in any territory under its jurisdiction," said the report, which was presenting its conclusions from a hearing earlier this month into U.S. conduct. The United States made in its first appearance before the U.N. Committee Against Torture in six years earlier this month, addressing issues ranging from Washington's interpretation of the ban on torture to its interrogation methods in prisons such as Abu Ghraib, Iraq, and Guantanamo. The committee also said the U.S. should rescind interrogation techniques that constitute torture or cruel treatment, citing methods including sexual humiliation, mock drownings and the use of dogs to induce fear. It said some techniques "have resulted in the death of some detainees during interrogation" and criticized vague U.S. guidelines that "have led to serious abuse of detainees." U.S. officials in Geneva declined to comment immediately Friday. Quote I am not in favor of torture unless the information is to be obtained immediately in the field to protect troops or civilians from an attack etc. Now the UN wants the detainees all sent somewhere they will not face "REAL TORTURE", well that rules out nearly all islamic countries and may only leave them to go to Disneyworld in Paris (ISN'T THAT TORTURE ALSO?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #2 May 19, 2006 I remember when we used to impose sanctions on or invade countries who violated human rights. It saddens me that we've stooped this low. I kinda liked being the country with the white hat. But we've screwed ourselves over in a different way as well. By using these secret detention centers and employing torture (or sending them to other countries to be tortured), even if we wanted to bring those involved with 9/11 to court, we can't. No information obtained during that detention would be admissible, unless it was a secret military tribunal. But that doesn't help our image either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #3 May 19, 2006 F--k the UN. Close the place down and use the real estate for better purposes.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #4 May 19, 2006 The US has never had that "White Hat" from the begining. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #5 May 19, 2006 QuoteI remember when we used to impose sanctions on or invade countries who violated human rights. It saddens me that we've stooped this low. I kinda liked being the country with the white hat. But we've screwed ourselves over in a different way as well. By using these secret detention centers and employing torture (or sending them to other countries to be tortured), even if we wanted to bring those involved with 9/11 to court, we can't. No information obtained during that detention would be admissible, unless it was a secret military tribunal. But that doesn't help our image either. Dude nearly every country is guilty of the same or worse. Ask the French about their colonies! I was apalled when I watched Jaques Shirac say "Lyonne is the home of human rights" Anyone want to guess who deported the first Jews to concentration camps? Anyone here ever hear of Algeria? Anyone ever hear of Devils Island? etc. Remember the French and Indian war? Who used tainted blankets to blame the Anglo settlers? what is amazing is what started just 10 miles from SDC way back when near Indian Creek. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #6 May 19, 2006 Quote Dude nearly every country is guilty of the same or worse. Ask the French about their colonies! I was apalled when I watched Jaques Shirac say "Lyonne is the home of human rights" I know that we all have a checkered history, but it's supposed to be history. The defense that "other people have done it" is simply not acceptable, however I hear it a lot these days. I mentioned it before but I absolutely HATE double standards and condemning countries for human rights abuses but still being friends with Saudia Arabia or breaking international treaties against torture is just plain wrong. It also does nothing except alienate more allies and make more people want to hurt us. Terrorists don't want to come after us because they "hate freedom" (quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard), they want to hurt us for what we do to them or their countries. Why pour more gas on that fire? Hmmm....maybe that should be "alcohol on that fire", gas is getting too expensive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #7 May 19, 2006 Bullshit The terrorists hate us because they are fighting a religous war against Christianity and the US is predominately Christian and the biggest dog on block. Their goal is to spread Islam. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #8 May 19, 2006 QuoteBullshit The terrorists hate us because they are fighting a religous war against Christianity and the US is predominately Christian and the biggest dog on block. Their goal is to spread Islam. DING DING DING it is all about WORLD DOMINATION always has been and always will be. First it was the Persians, then the Greeks, The Romans, the Turks, the Christians, the Muslims, the Christians again, then the British, the Japanese, teh Americans, the Communists, Corporatism, and now the Muslims again. Sounds like a LP playing backwards and forwards huh? I know I left out a few groups out but don't worry I did not forget them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #9 May 19, 2006 They hate us for a lot of reasons. But they actually ATTACK us for specific reasons re. foreign policy. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #10 May 19, 2006 QuoteThey hate us for a lot of reasons. But they actually ATTACK us for specific reasons re. foreign policy. Not a history fan eh? I think the first war of domination may have been started by a caveman smashing in someones skull over a cavewoman, that the other posessed with lice and all. I like this quote: "I do not know what weapons the third World War will be fought with, but I do know that the fourth World War will be fought with sticks and stones" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #11 May 19, 2006 I agree. It's a culture clash, and America better wake up and realize that. We _CANNOT_ live together because _THEY_ say so. We need to do a much better job in selecting our targets. Follow the money, and kill it. It's that simple.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #12 May 19, 2006 QuoteI agree. It's a culture clash, and America better wake up and realize that. We _CANNOT_ live together because _THEY_ say so. We need to do a much better job in selecting our targets. Follow the money, and kill it. It's that simple. Always follow the MONEY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #13 May 19, 2006 Who is this "they" you are talking about? Can you easily identify them? Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #14 May 19, 2006 Quote Can you easily identify them? That half of the 60 year old Saudi princes who have nothing better to do with their money other than fund jihad.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #15 May 19, 2006 QuoteWho is this "they" you are talking about? Can you easily identify them? Zipp0 yes with a nice 7.1 megapixel camera and some IT support from somewhere in VA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IanHarrop 42 #16 May 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteBullshit The terrorists hate us because they are fighting a religous war against Christianity and the US is predominately Christian and the biggest dog on block. Their goal is to spread Islam. DING DING DING it is all about WORLD DOMINATION always has been and alwways will be. First it was the Persians, then the Greeks, The Romans, the Turks, the Christians, the Muslims, the Christians again, then the British, the Japanese, teh Americans, the Communists, Corporatism, and now the Muslims again. Sounds like a LP playing backwards and forwards huh? I know I left out a few groups out but don't worry I did not forget them Where does the USA fit in your list?"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #17 May 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteBullshit The terrorists hate us because they are fighting a religous war against Christianity and the US is predominately Christian and the biggest dog on block. Their goal is to spread Islam. DING DING DING it is all about WORLD DOMINATION always has been and always will be. First it was the Persians, then the Greeks, The Romans, the Turks, the Christians, the Muslims, the Christians again, then the British, the Japanese, the Americans, the Communists, Corporatism, and now the Muslims again. Sounds like a LP playing backwards and forwards huh? I know I left out a few groups out but don't worry I did not forget them Where does the USA fit in your list? Ian go back and read it again ok?....sheesh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #18 May 19, 2006 QuoteBullshit The terrorists hate us because they are fighting a religous war against Christianity and the US is predominately Christian and the biggest dog on block. Their goal is to spread Islam. Wrong. This is not a Holy war but we're certainly doing a good job of starting one thanks to a commander in chief who thinks he's getting orders from God. The terrorists have told us numerous times why they attacked us. 1) Our presence on and manipulation of Arab soil. 2) Our lopsided support of Israel. Bush's answer to that was to increase our foot print in the middle east through a war of aggression (one could argue imperialism) and to steadfastly back the Israelis in their conflict with the Palestinians. Now if we're going to be imperialists then we need to quit f'ing around and say it. That way our leadership won't have to come up with excuses like "spreading freedom" or "liberating". Just call it what it is, a military incursion to secure a natural resource that we want and the cementing of our influence over the rest of the world so that we continue to remain in control. At least this think tank, the one that's actually running the administration right now, had the fortitude to put it in writing. www.newamericancentury.org We need to cut the bullshit and come clean with the American public. That way we can decide for ourselves whether or not this is the route we want to take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #19 May 19, 2006 I think those are only partial reasons. I think the main reason is to spread Islam. If the US did what they ask and get out of Arab lands and end all support for Isreal it would only fuel their movement to dominate more and more countries. Eventually there would be WWIII. Muslims against everyone else. I also don't think this has anything to do with who the President is. Even if Kerry were President it wouldn't stop this Islamic Jihad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vortexring 0 #20 May 19, 2006 Wrong. This is not a Holy war but we're certainly doing a good job of starting one thanks to a commander in chief who thinks he's getting orders from God. The terrorists have told us numerous times why they attacked us. 1) Our presence on and manipulation of Arab soil. 2) Our lopsided support of Israel. Bush's answer to that was to increase our foot print in the middle east through a war of aggression (one could argue imperialism) and to steadfastly back the Israelis in their conflict with the Palestinians. Now if we're going to be imperialists then we need to quit f'ing around and say it. That way our leadership won't have to come up with excuses like "spreading freedom" or "liberating". Just call it what it is, a military incursion to secure a natural resource that we want and the cementing of our influence over the rest of the world so that we continue to remain in control. At least this think tank, the one that's actually running the administration right now, had the fortitude to put it in writing. www.newamericancentury.org We need to cut the bullshit and come clean with the American public. That way we can decide for ourselves whether or not this is the route we want to take. What a sensible post - what did you drink!? The Fountain of Knowlege?? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #2 May 19, 2006 I remember when we used to impose sanctions on or invade countries who violated human rights. It saddens me that we've stooped this low. I kinda liked being the country with the white hat. But we've screwed ourselves over in a different way as well. By using these secret detention centers and employing torture (or sending them to other countries to be tortured), even if we wanted to bring those involved with 9/11 to court, we can't. No information obtained during that detention would be admissible, unless it was a secret military tribunal. But that doesn't help our image either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #3 May 19, 2006 F--k the UN. Close the place down and use the real estate for better purposes.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #4 May 19, 2006 The US has never had that "White Hat" from the begining. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #5 May 19, 2006 QuoteI remember when we used to impose sanctions on or invade countries who violated human rights. It saddens me that we've stooped this low. I kinda liked being the country with the white hat. But we've screwed ourselves over in a different way as well. By using these secret detention centers and employing torture (or sending them to other countries to be tortured), even if we wanted to bring those involved with 9/11 to court, we can't. No information obtained during that detention would be admissible, unless it was a secret military tribunal. But that doesn't help our image either. Dude nearly every country is guilty of the same or worse. Ask the French about their colonies! I was apalled when I watched Jaques Shirac say "Lyonne is the home of human rights" Anyone want to guess who deported the first Jews to concentration camps? Anyone here ever hear of Algeria? Anyone ever hear of Devils Island? etc. Remember the French and Indian war? Who used tainted blankets to blame the Anglo settlers? what is amazing is what started just 10 miles from SDC way back when near Indian Creek. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #6 May 19, 2006 Quote Dude nearly every country is guilty of the same or worse. Ask the French about their colonies! I was apalled when I watched Jaques Shirac say "Lyonne is the home of human rights" I know that we all have a checkered history, but it's supposed to be history. The defense that "other people have done it" is simply not acceptable, however I hear it a lot these days. I mentioned it before but I absolutely HATE double standards and condemning countries for human rights abuses but still being friends with Saudia Arabia or breaking international treaties against torture is just plain wrong. It also does nothing except alienate more allies and make more people want to hurt us. Terrorists don't want to come after us because they "hate freedom" (quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard), they want to hurt us for what we do to them or their countries. Why pour more gas on that fire? Hmmm....maybe that should be "alcohol on that fire", gas is getting too expensive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #7 May 19, 2006 Bullshit The terrorists hate us because they are fighting a religous war against Christianity and the US is predominately Christian and the biggest dog on block. Their goal is to spread Islam. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #8 May 19, 2006 QuoteBullshit The terrorists hate us because they are fighting a religous war against Christianity and the US is predominately Christian and the biggest dog on block. Their goal is to spread Islam. DING DING DING it is all about WORLD DOMINATION always has been and always will be. First it was the Persians, then the Greeks, The Romans, the Turks, the Christians, the Muslims, the Christians again, then the British, the Japanese, teh Americans, the Communists, Corporatism, and now the Muslims again. Sounds like a LP playing backwards and forwards huh? I know I left out a few groups out but don't worry I did not forget them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #9 May 19, 2006 They hate us for a lot of reasons. But they actually ATTACK us for specific reasons re. foreign policy. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #10 May 19, 2006 QuoteThey hate us for a lot of reasons. But they actually ATTACK us for specific reasons re. foreign policy. Not a history fan eh? I think the first war of domination may have been started by a caveman smashing in someones skull over a cavewoman, that the other posessed with lice and all. I like this quote: "I do not know what weapons the third World War will be fought with, but I do know that the fourth World War will be fought with sticks and stones" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #11 May 19, 2006 I agree. It's a culture clash, and America better wake up and realize that. We _CANNOT_ live together because _THEY_ say so. We need to do a much better job in selecting our targets. Follow the money, and kill it. It's that simple.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #12 May 19, 2006 QuoteI agree. It's a culture clash, and America better wake up and realize that. We _CANNOT_ live together because _THEY_ say so. We need to do a much better job in selecting our targets. Follow the money, and kill it. It's that simple. Always follow the MONEY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #13 May 19, 2006 Who is this "they" you are talking about? Can you easily identify them? Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #14 May 19, 2006 Quote Can you easily identify them? That half of the 60 year old Saudi princes who have nothing better to do with their money other than fund jihad.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #15 May 19, 2006 QuoteWho is this "they" you are talking about? Can you easily identify them? Zipp0 yes with a nice 7.1 megapixel camera and some IT support from somewhere in VA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #16 May 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteBullshit The terrorists hate us because they are fighting a religous war against Christianity and the US is predominately Christian and the biggest dog on block. Their goal is to spread Islam. DING DING DING it is all about WORLD DOMINATION always has been and alwways will be. First it was the Persians, then the Greeks, The Romans, the Turks, the Christians, the Muslims, the Christians again, then the British, the Japanese, teh Americans, the Communists, Corporatism, and now the Muslims again. Sounds like a LP playing backwards and forwards huh? I know I left out a few groups out but don't worry I did not forget them Where does the USA fit in your list?"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #17 May 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteBullshit The terrorists hate us because they are fighting a religous war against Christianity and the US is predominately Christian and the biggest dog on block. Their goal is to spread Islam. DING DING DING it is all about WORLD DOMINATION always has been and always will be. First it was the Persians, then the Greeks, The Romans, the Turks, the Christians, the Muslims, the Christians again, then the British, the Japanese, the Americans, the Communists, Corporatism, and now the Muslims again. Sounds like a LP playing backwards and forwards huh? I know I left out a few groups out but don't worry I did not forget them Where does the USA fit in your list? Ian go back and read it again ok?....sheesh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #18 May 19, 2006 QuoteBullshit The terrorists hate us because they are fighting a religous war against Christianity and the US is predominately Christian and the biggest dog on block. Their goal is to spread Islam. Wrong. This is not a Holy war but we're certainly doing a good job of starting one thanks to a commander in chief who thinks he's getting orders from God. The terrorists have told us numerous times why they attacked us. 1) Our presence on and manipulation of Arab soil. 2) Our lopsided support of Israel. Bush's answer to that was to increase our foot print in the middle east through a war of aggression (one could argue imperialism) and to steadfastly back the Israelis in their conflict with the Palestinians. Now if we're going to be imperialists then we need to quit f'ing around and say it. That way our leadership won't have to come up with excuses like "spreading freedom" or "liberating". Just call it what it is, a military incursion to secure a natural resource that we want and the cementing of our influence over the rest of the world so that we continue to remain in control. At least this think tank, the one that's actually running the administration right now, had the fortitude to put it in writing. www.newamericancentury.org We need to cut the bullshit and come clean with the American public. That way we can decide for ourselves whether or not this is the route we want to take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #19 May 19, 2006 I think those are only partial reasons. I think the main reason is to spread Islam. If the US did what they ask and get out of Arab lands and end all support for Isreal it would only fuel their movement to dominate more and more countries. Eventually there would be WWIII. Muslims against everyone else. I also don't think this has anything to do with who the President is. Even if Kerry were President it wouldn't stop this Islamic Jihad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #20 May 19, 2006 Wrong. This is not a Holy war but we're certainly doing a good job of starting one thanks to a commander in chief who thinks he's getting orders from God. The terrorists have told us numerous times why they attacked us. 1) Our presence on and manipulation of Arab soil. 2) Our lopsided support of Israel. Bush's answer to that was to increase our foot print in the middle east through a war of aggression (one could argue imperialism) and to steadfastly back the Israelis in their conflict with the Palestinians. Now if we're going to be imperialists then we need to quit f'ing around and say it. That way our leadership won't have to come up with excuses like "spreading freedom" or "liberating". Just call it what it is, a military incursion to secure a natural resource that we want and the cementing of our influence over the rest of the world so that we continue to remain in control. At least this think tank, the one that's actually running the administration right now, had the fortitude to put it in writing. www.newamericancentury.org We need to cut the bullshit and come clean with the American public. That way we can decide for ourselves whether or not this is the route we want to take. What a sensible post - what did you drink!? The Fountain of Knowlege?? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #21 May 19, 2006 Anyone here claiming to understand the roots of Islamic terrorism and motivations ever read this: Longitudes and Attitudes : The World in the Age of Terrorism - Thomas Friedman http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400031257/002-2885476-5605657?v=glance&n=283155 If not, maybe you should. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #22 May 19, 2006 Quote ust call it what it is, a military incursion to secure a natural resource that we want... That is bullshit. If we wanted to do that, we'd have done it along time ago. How much oil are we taking from the Iraqis? _NONE_We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #23 May 19, 2006 QuoteIan go back and read it again ok?....sheesh I went to an American school, you expect me to be able to read? "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #24 May 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteIan go back and read it again ok?....sheesh I went to an American school, you expect me to be able to read? OK you are forgiven Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #25 May 19, 2006 Quote What a sensible post - what did you drink!? The Fountain of Knowlege?? I don't know what happened. Maybe I metabolized some old recreational stuff I had stored in my lipids for a couple of decades. Don't worry, hopefully a little hypoxia this weekend will return things to normal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
