Another religion thread.

[freethefly 6]

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I raised my hand and asked "if eve was the only woman on earth, who did cain marry? his mother or his sister?"

I've asked a question similer to this to others who claim to know the bible and have never gotton an answer. Any of you self-proclaimed theologians care to answer?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[hairyjuan 0]

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I have. My first week of religion class in high school. The teacher (nun) was talking about genesis. She talked about how adam and eve were the first people on earth, and how cain killed abel, and then cain got married. I raised my hand and asked "if eve was the only woman on earth, who did cain marry? his mother or his sister?"

The teacher started screaming at me about blasphemy and having no respect for the bible. Literally screaming.

that's weird. nothing like that happened to me in CCD.

Pick up any annotated Catholic Bible & there's usually a bunch of prefaces written by modern cardinals, which usually refute the simple-minded fundamentalist approach to the Bible. The writings in the Bible must be understood in the context in which they were written. The first 5 books of the Old Testament are the oldest & you have to consider the primitive science at that time, the use of symbolism, names which have double-meanings only in ancient Hebrew, etc.

In short, you've got to read the Bible with your brain turned on. Otherwise it is easy to just pull some phrase out of context & distort it or use it to mean something it wasn't intended to, etc.

what do the jews say about your messiah. i used to preach, so you needn't say anything about reading it ond not taking anything out of context, been there done that

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[hairyjuan 0]

can do, but have 'believers' read every one? probably not. it is a SIN to be wise beyond the bible!


e-mail address will get you a free copy of who is this- a critical study of the christos-messiah tradition

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[jakee 1,594]

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what is so confusing, or hard to understand? chrishna, budha, mithra, attis, adonay, jehovah, yeshua, jesus, joshua, any other 'saviour' you care to name is a reference to the SUN. it is that simple and that true.

Again, your link had nothing to do with your post, could you find me a relevant one?

In your last post you said any god was the sun, 'savior' is very different from 'god'. 2k years ago very few regularly worshipped gods could be described as saviors. Most of them didn't care and the others were just plain nasty. Now what evidence leads you to assert that all gods are aspects of the sun?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Michele 1]

Hi, Kris. Sorry you got that response from the nun. I had that question, as well, and was given a good answer - and that answer is the one that you quoted; which is to say, that the prohibition of marrying one's close relative wasn't given until later on. 'Course, I was about 10 when I asked it of a Catholic father, so it was a bit watered down for my age...and of course so was the question.

Broken says:

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Maybe you can answer some of the questions I have, as I’m sure that you have already asked them and have the answers..

1.Where is all the archeological proof, where is Noah’s Ark, the holy Grail, the ark of the covenant, or in fact any relic that proves that the Jesus existed or can be linked to the story..

2.Why did Jesus have to die for our sins, why didn’t god just forgive us????

3.Why is there no physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people.

4. Why is there no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus?

5. In fact why is there not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus

6.Examine the evidence for the Hercules of Greek mythology and you will find it parallels the "historicity" of Jesus to such an amazing degree that for Christian apologists to deny Hercules as a historical person belies and contradicts the very same methodology used for a historical Jesus, so why believe one myth and not the other?

7.Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence, why doesn’t Jesus?

8.Why would a proposed magical super-being who expects everyone to believe in Him, conceal all evidence of His existence.

9.Why is there not a shinning (sic) cross in the sky?

Actually, those weren't my questions.

Mine were - and continue to be extensions of - questions such as:
1. Why is there so much suffering in the world. Shouldn't it all be peaches and cream?

2. What is my reason for being alive? Why am I here?

3. What is your reason for being alive? Have you discovered it? How?

4. How come I believe in God, see His work all around me, and yet still have doubts?

5. How come God would let people suffer in hell (or any religion's particular version of it)?

6. How can I be free and still obey God's laws? And how come the jews have so many laws???

7. Doesn't science preclude any god, and if not, how not?

8. What is divine guidance?
8a. What is coincidence rather than answered prayer? How do I know the difference? Can I test it?

9. How does God work in my life? How does He know "each hair on my head", and why would He bother?

10. What are Angels, cherubim, and Seraphim? How come I can't see them?

11. Why does God love me?

12. How can I love more? Love even those who've done me wrong; badly, badly wrong?

13. Doesn't forgiveness mean it's o.k. to do it? And if I forgive someone, does that give them permission to do it again, and again?

14. Why is Mary respected in the Catholic religion, but plays a lesser part in other religions? What about the feminine aspect to judeism and christianity?


Et cetera and so on. For me, it's far more personal, self-searching...and while that may be selfish, it's all I'm capable of at the moment.

Sorry, I don't know why you haven't received answers to your questions. I don't know your answers (they weren't my questions, per se)...and I only know the beginnings of my answers.

I did note, however, that you've restricted your questioning to the christian religion. Why is that? Why is it christianity that is only questioned by you, rather than other religions and spirituality?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[pirana 0]

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what is so confusing, or hard to understand? chrishna, budha, mithra, attis, adonay, jehovah, yeshua, jesus, joshua, any other 'saviour' you care to name is a reference to the SUN. it is that simple and that true.

You're killing everybody's buzz. When all the religious people of the world find out that all religions have a common origin, they will set out to conquer one another instead of peacefully chanting.

Oh wait, we've already reached that point.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[SpeedRacer 1]

so, if a proselitizing Christian is called a "bible-thumper", then what do you call a proselitizing atheist??? A "Nothing-thumper"??

Speed Racer
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[Tink1717 2]

The term I prefer is "Correct"

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[br0k3n 0]

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I’ll pick the most important of your questions. Some of the others seem silly, irrelevant, insincere, or mocking.

Dont make excuses for not having the answers Paj.... your religion does not stand up to scrutiny, FACT

or perhaps I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, can you supply the answers to my questions...

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[br0k3n 0]

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Actually, those weren't my questions.

Mine were - and continue to be extensions of - questions such as:

Ok I've answered your questions, any chance or answering mine????


1. Why is there so much suffering in the world? Shouldn't it all be peaches and cream?
Answer There is so much suffering because we “humans” and the world isn’t perfect.

2. What is my reason for being alive? Why am I here?
Answer Do you need a reason??

3. What is your reason for being alive? Have you discovered it? How?
Answer There is no reason, and I am happy with that, I am more concerned with enjoying and making the most of my brief spark of existence then worry about why I am here..

4. How come I believe in God, see His work all around me, and yet still have doubts?
Answer You believe because it has been ingrained in you from an early age. You see see things around you that you do not understand, so you simply attribute them to you God.

5. How come God would let people suffer in hell (or any religion's particular version of it)?
Answer Because it is a myth, and with most myths there is good vs evil.

6. How can I be free and still obey God's laws? And how come the jews have so many laws???
Answer You can be free by not living you life by some ancient mystical belief system.

7. Doesn't science preclude any god, and if not, how not?
Answer No, but everyday science is taking on responsibilities that once belong to gods. Science does not know and cannot prove everything, but it is advancing our population and our thinking, one day I believe that science will make gods redundant.

8. What is divine guidance?
AnswerA myth

8a. What is coincidence rather than answered prayer? How do I know the difference? Can I test it?
Answer Yes you can test it… simply pray to Jesus to appear before you, ? In Mark 11:24 Jesus' message is crystal clear: "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." He says, "Ask, and you shall receive." In Luke 1:37: "For with God nothing will be impossible." Nothing is impossible through prayer.

9. How does God work in my life? How does He know "each hair on my head", and why would He bother?
Answer when Jesus appears before you, from the previous question you will be able to ask him

10. What are Angels, cherubim, and Seraphim? How come I can't see them?
Answer Would have thought this would be obvious, but anyway “they don’t exist” that’s why you, and nobody can or ever has seen them..

11. Why does God love me?
Answer How do you know he does?

12. How can I love more? Love even those who've done me wrong; badly, badly wrong?
Answer Good question, and one that you can achieve without the crutch of god.

13. Doesn't forgiveness mean it's o.k. to do it? And if I forgive someone, does that give them permission to do it again, and again?
Answer This is down to your own morale standings..

14. Why is Mary respected in the Catholic religion, but plays a lesser part in other religions? What about the feminine aspect to judeism and christianity?
Answer BECAUSE THERE ALL FABLES…

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Nightingale 0]

Taking the story literally, Cain would have married a sister or niece.

[Michele 1]

As Paj said, your questions - and subsequent responses - are mocking, insincere, and trite. I took you at your word, and tried to pursue a discourse with you. I don't care what you believe or don't. That's your right, and it's fine with me what you chose, ignore, or decide is correct.

But I can't, in good faith, continue in the discussion when you are insistent on behaving less than adult-like; I have no doubt you've got reasons for the behavior, but it's not something I will encourage or condone.

Further, and just to cut you off at the pass, it isn't because I don't have the answers (but I didn't ask the same questions you did; therefore, I don't have your answers for you...), it's simply because you're not willing to be intellectually honest, refrain from behavior unbecoming an adult, and I won't encourage that. When you've come to your senses a bit about this, perhaps we can revisit it. Until then, thank you for playing, and have a nice day.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Zenister 0]

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If your god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, then god and the "devil" are one in the same! HELL is only what YOU make it

That is nonsensical.

Added: That's like saying:

- I am all powerful, all knowing, and ever present.
- I built a treehouse in the front yard.
- Therefore, I am the treehouse that I created.

such a simplistic thought process.. and a christian claiming ‘sense’ as a defense…

did you create the tree? did you create that which nourishes the tree? Are you the Prime Mover for EVERYTHING's existence? if not, you are not God..

if you are, and did, and existence itself spins solely because YOU willed to do so, YOU aka “God” are responsible for the end result of all you create (particularly if you also "know" the outcome of every decision before the decider even exists)

God has no adversary. Only children and primitive minds need boogie men to scare them into behaving....

However if you wish to debate from ‘inside’ the Christian Mythos.. perhaps you should study the theological concept of “Fortunate Fall”…

Satan didn’t rebel, he was pushed…..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Mockingbird 0]

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For all his talk about intollerance, he sure appears to be very intollerant.

Isn't that always the case?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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It is well worth watching, unless of course your one of the close minded, blinded by faith, your all going to hell for not believing type of person..

br0k3n, you're as close-minded as anyone is on this forum!

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[br0k3n 0]

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It is well worth watching, unless of course your one of the close minded, blinded by faith, your all going to hell for not believing type of person..

br0k3n, you're as close-minded as anyone is on this forum!

Far from it, thats why im an Atheist....

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Mockingbird 0]

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it is about educating good people who are ignorant of where religion comes from and what it is really all about --controlling your very existance with the fear of eternal DAMNATION for not believing

Oops, better call the Proselytization Police.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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Religion should not be tolerated or respected, people need to be educated and then hopefully one day we no longer have these superstions.

I take it that you think you're omniscient in order to be so sure that God doesn't exist. Am I right?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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Unfortunately, it's virtually impossible for religious folk to accept that their beliefs should get no special treatment since they somehow think their beliefs are indeed "special".

You're over-generalizing about religious people. There are probably some like you describe, but I doubt they are in the majority.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[br0k3n 0]

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As Paj said, your questions - and subsequent responses - are mocking, insincere, and trite. I took you at your word, and tried to pursue a discourse with you. I don't care what you believe or don't. That's your right, and it's fine with me what you chose, ignore, or decide is correct.

The questions I asked are not meant to be mocking, because you or anyone is unable to answer them truthfully, then you label them as mocking. Please can you indicate which question/s you consider mocking, I will endeavour to rephrase them.

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But I can't, in good faith, continue in the discussion when you are insistent on behaving less than adult-like; I have no doubt you've got reasons for the behavior, but it's not something I will encourage or condone.

How am I acting “less then adult like”??? I asked a few genuine questions that I believe need to be answered.. So perhaps you can indicate which parts of my post are “less the adult like”??????

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Further, and just to cut you off at the pass, it isn't because I don't have the answers (but I didn't ask the same questions you did; therefore, I don't have your answers for you...), it's simply because you're not willing to be intellectually honest, refrain from behavior unbecoming an adult, and I won't encourage that. When you've come to your senses a bit about this, perhaps we can revisit it. Until then, thank you for playing, and have a nice day.

Why do you not defend your religion, why is it that time and time again that you run and hide under a rock, when difficult conversations or questions are raised that put your beliefs in doubt?? And you claim that I am closed-minded!!!!!!

I am more then willing, and trying to have an intellectual conversation, but as soon as I ask a question or questions that are challenging for you to answer, and seriously put your faith in question, you call me “less then adult like” and decide to remove yourself from the conversation…

So again I ask, please let me know which of my questions you don’t like….

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[br0k3n 0]

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Religion should not be tolerated or respected, people need to be educated and then hopefully one day we no longer have these superstions.

I take it that you think you're omniscient in order to be so sure that God doesn't exist. Am I right?

MB perhaps you can address a couple of my questions??? neither Paj or Michele seem upto the task?

Then we can discuss this post...

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Mockingbird 0]

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all religions survive through faith the belief in something without proof, and teach that this is ok.

What is this "believing something without proof" business? If you have proof of something, do you believe it? or do you know it?

You're confusing "proof" with "evidence."

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[br0k3n 0]

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all religions survive through faith the belief in something without proof, and teach that this is ok.

What is this "believing something without proof" business? If you have proof of something, do you believe it? or do you know it?

You're confusing "proof" with "evidence."

"Proof is arriving at a logical conclusion, based on the available evidence." if you want to ensure the you arrive at the best possible conclusion then you ensure that the evidence that you consider is empirical.

In the case of Christianity there is no evidence except the bible, which is most certainly not empirical evidence.

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Mockingbird 0]

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Being an atheist I think its hilarious that to some people the act of thinking clearly unclouded by belief defines their concept of wrong. To me, HAVING beliefs defines my concept of wrong.

So, you think you have no beliefs, huh?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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I take it that you think you're omniscient in order to be so sure that God doesn't exist. Am I right?

MB perhaps you can address a couple of my questions??? neither Paj or Michele seem upto the task?

Then we can discuss this post...

So you don't want to answer my ONE question? but you want me to answer 10 (or whatever) of yours? If I answer yours, will you be upset if I put as little thought into my answers as you did with Michele's?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"