lawrocket 3 #76 May 17, 2006 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is damage to the wall outside of the big hole but it's not easy to see. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah you're right. It is a big hole. So considering that the width of the body of the 757 is abotu 12 feet (actually, 12 feet, 4 inches) that picture looks just about right. I'm also noting (this is deductive reasoning here) that the hole isn't perfectly round, but rather widens at the lower half. Considering that the craft was wheels up when it contacted, we would expect the engines of the bird to be the lowest point of contact. Now, that holeis an interori wall, where all that was left was the body of the bird. It may seem counterintuitive to you, but that hole is pretty much exactly what I'd expect to be the appearance of the hole caused by a 757 hitting a heavy reinforced concrete structure. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #77 May 17, 2006 QuoteJust did a google search "Airplane pics pentagon 9/11". Came up empty. I did think this picture was interesting though. Maybe I dont know what to search for. Perhaps you could help me and post some yourself. There are pictures of bodies and plane parts here: http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #78 May 17, 2006 Quotequote] http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua232/2.shtml Can you find the DC-10? Nice try. Try clicking on the next picture. Better yet, I just provided a link to it. Yes, I can find the DC-10 http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua232/3.shtml http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua232/4.shtml YOU ARE INTENTIONALLY REFERENCING THE WRONG PIC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #79 May 17, 2006 QuoteQuotequote] http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua232/2.shtml Can you find the DC-10? Nice try. Try clicking on the next picture. Better yet, I just provided a link to it. Yes, I can find the DC-10 http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua232/3.shtml http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua232/4.shtml YOU ARE INTENTIONALLY REFERENCING THE WRONG PIC What are you talking about? Diverdriver posted a link to a picture where you could not see any wreckage. The links I posted were of different pictures from the same plane crash showing wreckage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #80 May 17, 2006 I am pretty sure that these people would agree that it was in fact a plane they were in when they slammed into the pentagon. American Airlines Flight 77: A Boeing 757 en route from Dulles Airport near Washington to Los Angeles. The plane was carrying 58 passengers, four flight attendants and two pilots. It crashed into the Pentagon about 9:40 a.m. Crew: Charles Burlingame, 51, Va., captain David Charlebois, Washington, D.C., first officer Michele Heidenberger, 57, Chevy Chase, Md., flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, Culpeper, Va., flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, Culpeper, Va., flight attendant Renee May, 39, Baltimore, flight attendant Passengers: Paul Ambrose, 32, physician Yeneneh Betru, 35, Burbank, Calif., director of medical affairs, IPC MJ Booth Bernard Brown, 11, student, Leckie Elementary School (Washington) Suzanne Calley, 42, San Martin, Calif., Cisco Systems Inc. William E. Caswell, 54, Silver Spring, Md., physicist, U.S. Navy Sarah Clark, 65, Columbia, Md., sixth-grade teacher, Backus Middle School (Washington) Zandra Cooper, Annandale, Va. Asia Cottom, 11, student, Backus Middle School (Washington) James Debeuneure, 58, Upper Marlboro, Md., fifth-grade teacher, Ketcham Elementary School (Washington) Rodney Dickens, 11, student, Ketcham Elementary School (Washington) Eddie Dillard Charles Droz, 52, Springfield, Va., vice president for software development, EM Solutions Inc. Barbara G. Edwards, 58, Las Vegas, Nev., teacher, Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, University Park, Md., research director, ECOlogic Corp. Dana Falkenberg, 3, University Park, Md. Zoe Falkenberg, 8, University Park, Md. James Joe Ferguson, 39, Washington, D.C., educational outreach director, National Geographic Society Darlene ''Dee'' Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va. Wilson ''Bud'' Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va., retired Navy Admiral and pilot, American Airlines Richard P. Gabriel Sr., 54, Great Falls, Va., founder, Stratin Consulting Ian Gray, 55, Washington, D.C., healthcare consulting firm president Stanley Hall, 68, Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif. Bryan Jack, 48, Alexandria, Va., senior executive, Defense Department Steven D. ''Jake'' Jacoby, 43, Alexandria, Va., chief operating officer, Metrocall Inc. Ann Judge, 49, Great Falls, Va., travel officer manager, National Geographic Society Chandler Keller, 29, El Segundo, Calif., propulsion engineer, Boeing Co. Yvonne Kennedy Norma Khan, 45, Reston, Va., nonprofit organization manager, Karen A. Kincaid, 40, lawyer, Wiley Rein & Fielding in Washington Dong Lee, 48, Leesburg, Va., engineer, Boeing Co. Dora Menchaca, 45, Santa Monica, Calif., associate director of clinical research for biotech firm Christopher Newton, 38, Ashburn, Va., executive, WorkLife Benefits Barbara Olson, 45, TV commentator and lawyer Ruben Ornedo, 39, Los Angeles, Calif., propulsion engineer, Boeing Co. Robert Penniger, 63, Poway, Calif., electrical engineer, BAE Systems Robert R. Ploger III, 59, Annandale, Va., software architect, Lockheed Martin Corp. Lisa J. Raines, 42, Great Falls, Va., senior vice president, Genzyme Corp. Todd Reuben, 40, Potomac, Md., tax and business lawyer John Sammartino, 37, Annandale, Va., technical manager, XonTech Inc. Yang Shuyin, 61, Beijing, China Diane Simmons George Simmons Mari-Rae Sopper, 35, Santa Barbara, Calif., women's gymnastics coach, UC Santa Barbara Robert Speisman, 47, Irvington, N.Y., diamond industry salesman Norma Lang Steuerle, 54, Alexandria, Va. Hilda Taylor, sixth grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington Leonard Taylor, 44, Reston, Va., technical group manager, XonTech Inc. Sandra Teague, 31, physical therapist, Georgetown University Hospital Leslie A. Whittington, 45, University Park, Md., professor, Georgetown University John Yamnicky, 71, Waldorf, Md. Vicki Yancey, 44, Springfield, Va., Vredenburg Zheng Yuguang, 65, Beijing, China"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #81 May 17, 2006 I wonder what the thousands of friends, family, and co-workers of the dead passengers think of this stupid conspiracy idea. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #82 May 17, 2006 yep. it's all an elaborate invention by the gummint. I've noticed that conspiracy theorists completely reject the principle of Occams razor. Anything that happens must be explained with the MAXIMUM amount of entities possible. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #83 May 17, 2006 QuoteI am pretty sure that these people would agree that it was in fact a plane they were in when they slammed into the pentagon. In all fairness, the fact that those people are dead and the plane is gone is in no way proof that the plane actually crashed into the pentagon. Now, I am not buying the conspiracy theory. But this post, howveer emotion provoking it is, really provides no proof. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #84 May 17, 2006 QuoteIn all fairness, the fact that those people are dead and the plane is gone is in no way proof that the plane actually crashed into the pentagon. Plane wreckage and dead bodies is not proof? I should have told the cop when I was on the curb bleeding and my car smashed up that I was not in a car wreck.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #85 May 17, 2006 QuotePlane wreckage and dead bodies is not proof? I should have told the cop when I was on the curb bleeding and my car smashed up that I was not in a car wreck. Read again, that is not what I wrote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #86 May 17, 2006 QuoteIn all fairness, the fact that those people are dead and the plane is gone is in no way proof that the plane actually crashed into the pentagon. Re-read it. I havent slept in 24 hours so maybe I need it explained to me.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenshi 0 #87 May 17, 2006 The impact doesn't look like a jet. At all... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #88 May 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotequote] http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua232/2.shtml Can you find the DC-10? Nice try. Try clicking on the next picture. Better yet, I just provided a link to it. Yes, I can find the DC-10 http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua232/3.shtml http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua232/4.shtml YOU ARE INTENTIONALLY REFERENCING THE WRONG PIC What are you talking about? Diverdriver posted a link to a picture where you could not see any wreckage. The links I posted were of different pictures from the same plane crash showing wreckage. he posted pics of the debris left from AA190 and the fireball from the Sioux City crash I do not believe he posted them as otherwise. One was a complete destruction of the plane with nothing left but small bits(AA190) and the other was a crash where the pilot tried to save the plane and in fact people survived after it cartwheeled in.(SIOUX CITY) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #89 May 18, 2006 QuoteThe impact doesn't look like a jet. At all... And how many Airliners have you seen hit the pentagon? also what is your engineering background or whatever background you have that would back up your statement that it was not a plane? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #90 May 18, 2006 Quote actually rubber does not melt. it burns though. rm Point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #91 May 18, 2006 QuoteWhat are you talking about? Diverdriver posted a link to a picture where you could not see any wreckage. The links I posted were of different pictures from the same plane crash showing wreckage. Just as you have intentionally left out evidence that it WAS a 757 that hit the Pentagon. See how easy it is to believe anything you want even though the evidence is right in front of you? Oh, and nice try passing that exit hole off as the entry hole of the 757. Again, you have no idea what made that hole on the interior walls of the pentagon. It could be from the fueselage, an engine, or just the debris that was blown further into the pentagon from the momentum of the 757 hitting the wall. Or was that just from your cruise missile? If it was a cruise missile and it blew up on impact with the outer wall how in the world could it made such a perfect hole on the interior wall? It would blow up in all directions! And if you blieve it wasn't a 757 because there aren't any civilian eyewitness accounts (which I'm not saying there aren't) from the highway why for the same reason are there not any civilian accounts about a cruise missile flying right over head! Come on man! That highway was packed! There should be hundreds of eyewintess accounts of a cruise missile flying right over them! Well, there's not. Because there wasn't a missile. But have fun with your mental masturbation on this subject. No matter what I say or show you, you will always believe that a missile hit the pentagon because you cling to it like a warm blanket. It scares you to think of anything else. Sometimes, a plane crash is just a plane crash.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #92 May 18, 2006 QuoteI am pretty sure that these people would agree that it was in fact a plane they were in when they slammed into the pentagon. American Airlines Flight 77: A Boeing 757 en route from Dulles Airport near Washington to Los Angeles. The plane was carrying 58 passengers, four flight attendants and two pilots. It crashed into the Pentagon about 9:40 a.m. Crew: Charles Burlingame, 51, Va., captain David Charlebois, Washington, D.C., first officer Michele Heidenberger, 57, Chevy Chase, Md., flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, Culpeper, Va., flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, Culpeper, Va., flight attendant Renee May, 39, Baltimore, flight attendant Passengers: Paul Ambrose, 32, physician Yeneneh Betru, 35, Burbank, Calif., director of medical affairs, IPC MJ Booth Bernard Brown, 11, student, Leckie Elementary School (Washington) Suzanne Calley, 42, San Martin, Calif., Cisco Systems Inc. William E. Caswell, 54, Silver Spring, Md., physicist, U.S. Navy Sarah Clark, 65, Columbia, Md., sixth-grade teacher, Backus Middle School (Washington) Zandra Cooper, Annandale, Va. Asia Cottom, 11, student, Backus Middle School (Washington) James Debeuneure, 58, Upper Marlboro, Md., fifth-grade teacher, Ketcham Elementary School (Washington) Rodney Dickens, 11, student, Ketcham Elementary School (Washington) Eddie Dillard Charles Droz, 52, Springfield, Va., vice president for software development, EM Solutions Inc. Barbara G. Edwards, 58, Las Vegas, Nev., teacher, Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, University Park, Md., research director, ECOlogic Corp. Dana Falkenberg, 3, University Park, Md. Zoe Falkenberg, 8, University Park, Md. James Joe Ferguson, 39, Washington, D.C., educational outreach director, National Geographic Society Darlene ''Dee'' Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va. Wilson ''Bud'' Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va., retired Navy Admiral and pilot, American Airlines Richard P. Gabriel Sr., 54, Great Falls, Va., founder, Stratin Consulting Ian Gray, 55, Washington, D.C., healthcare consulting firm president Stanley Hall, 68, Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif. Bryan Jack, 48, Alexandria, Va., senior executive, Defense Department Steven D. ''Jake'' Jacoby, 43, Alexandria, Va., chief operating officer, Metrocall Inc. Ann Judge, 49, Great Falls, Va., travel officer manager, National Geographic Society Chandler Keller, 29, El Segundo, Calif., propulsion engineer, Boeing Co. Yvonne Kennedy Norma Khan, 45, Reston, Va., nonprofit organization manager, Karen A. Kincaid, 40, lawyer, Wiley Rein & Fielding in Washington Dong Lee, 48, Leesburg, Va., engineer, Boeing Co. Dora Menchaca, 45, Santa Monica, Calif., associate director of clinical research for biotech firm Christopher Newton, 38, Ashburn, Va., executive, WorkLife Benefits Barbara Olson, 45, TV commentator and lawyer Ruben Ornedo, 39, Los Angeles, Calif., propulsion engineer, Boeing Co. Robert Penniger, 63, Poway, Calif., electrical engineer, BAE Systems Robert R. Ploger III, 59, Annandale, Va., software architect, Lockheed Martin Corp. Lisa J. Raines, 42, Great Falls, Va., senior vice president, Genzyme Corp. Todd Reuben, 40, Potomac, Md., tax and business lawyer John Sammartino, 37, Annandale, Va., technical manager, XonTech Inc. Yang Shuyin, 61, Beijing, China Diane Simmons George Simmons Mari-Rae Sopper, 35, Santa Barbara, Calif., women's gymnastics coach, UC Santa Barbara Robert Speisman, 47, Irvington, N.Y., diamond industry salesman Norma Lang Steuerle, 54, Alexandria, Va. Hilda Taylor, sixth grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington Leonard Taylor, 44, Reston, Va., technical group manager, XonTech Inc. Sandra Teague, 31, physical therapist, Georgetown University Hospital Leslie A. Whittington, 45, University Park, Md., professor, Georgetown University John Yamnicky, 71, Waldorf, Md. Vicki Yancey, 44, Springfield, Va., Vredenburg Zheng Yuguang, 65, Beijing, China How many Arab names do you see there?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #93 May 18, 2006 QuoteHow many Arab names do you see there? What are you trying to imply? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #94 May 18, 2006 There should be at least 2 ... the hijakers (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #95 May 18, 2006 QuoteThere should be at least 2 ... the hijakers That's a list of the "victims". Perpetrators aren't considered victims. Khalid Almihdhar Listed as a passenger in seat 12B. A Yemeni national who is known to have met in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia with a senior aide to terrorist leader Osama bin Laden who was a principal suspect in the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen. According to a law enforcement source, the CIA transmitted the information about Almidhar to the FBI and the Immigration and Naturalization Service and his name was placed on the INS watch list. However, he had already entered the United States by the time his name was placed on the list Aug. 24. The FBI has obtained the phone records from his mobile phone. Nawaf Alhazmi Spent time in Chechnya with Salem Al-Hamzi. The Associated Press reports a flight instructor at Sorbi's Flying Club in San Diego said Al-Hamzi trained in a twin-engine Cessna in May 2000 with Khalid Almihdhar. They were interested in flying large planes, particularly Boeings, the flight instructor said. A car dealer in Wayne, N.J., confirms the FBI has confiscated his records on cars Alhazmi had rented. Salem Alhazmi Listed as a passenger in seat 5F. Spent time in Chechnya with Nawaf Alhazmi. Was on a U.S. government watch list, along with his associate Khalid Almihdhar, before the attacks. Newsweek reports the Immigration and Naturalization Service checked its databases and realized he and Al-Midhar entered the United States earlier this year on business visas, giving a Marriott Hotel in New York as their address. The INS also learned the two men had entered the country last year and had listed a Los Angeles hotel chain as their address. Hani Hanjour A Saudi Arabian national who went to live in the United Arab Emirates in 1999. Federal Aviation Administration records show someone named Hani Hanjour received a commercial pilot's license in 1999, listing a P.O. box in Saudi Arabia as his address. An instructor at CRM Flight School in Scottsdale, Ariz., said Hanjour received training there from September through November of 1996. Hanjour returned again in December of 1997. He was trying for his private pilot's license but, the instructor says, was a very poor student who skipped homework and missed flights. According to The Associated Press, Hanjour flew three times from a flight school at Freeway Airport in Bowie, Md., in August. He ultimately received an FAA pilot's license. Majed Moqed One of five hijackers who worked out at a Gold's Gym in Greenbelt, Md., for a few days earlier this month. The FBI has obtained the phone records from his mobile phone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #96 May 18, 2006 point taken (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #97 May 18, 2006 Eye Witness Testimony Lets look at some eye witness testimony sticking only to people who saw a plane hit the building, and not look at people who saw an airliner, but didn't see an airplane hit the building because they looked away or were too far away (behind a hill, behind a building, etc) to see it actually hit the building. "Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'" - "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001 "Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine." - "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002 "Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'" - "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001 "Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'" - "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001 "Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said." - "Hell on Earth." UU World, Jan/Feb 20 "We were the only people, we think, who saw it live," Dan Creed said. He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," - Ahwatukee Foothill News Gary Bauer former Presidential candidate, "I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn�t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." Massachusetts News Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building," Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief Sean Boger said. "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." dcmilitary.com November 16, 2001 "The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] NFPA Journal November 1, 2001 - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #98 May 18, 2006 They must be all in on the scam to. Bush bought them off.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #99 May 18, 2006 QuoteThey must be all in on the scam to. Bush bought them off. Yup, and a cruise missile knocked down the light poles and broke the window of the taxi. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #100 May 18, 2006 QuoteYup, and a cruise missile knocked down the light poles and broke the window of the taxi. No No No the little green men with the death rays did that.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
