NSA and YOUR phone calls

[livendive 8]

Alternately, you could answer the question. Just a thought.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Skyrad 0]

And you guy think you've got problems.... Tony (am I President yet?) Blair is making every car, van a lorry in the UK carry a black box that will be tracked at all times by GPS so that the government can bill us for the milage wwe do and depending on the roads we use. And no one seems to be bothered!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rushmc 23]

I will try. Please ask again as I am not sure the question you want me to answer.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

And you guy think you've got problems.... Tony (am I President yet?) Blair is making every car, van a lorry in the UK carry a black box that will be tracked at all times by GPS so that the government can bill us for the milage wwe do and depending on the roads we use. And no one seems to be bothered!

Shhhhhh, don't give the right wing (the security guys) any ideas

or

Shhhhhh, don't give the left wing (the tax any driver envirofreaks) any ideas

or

Shhhhhh, don't give the car manufacturers any ideas on another 'option to charge us with' ideas

anyway, I carry a penny, that means the government has my DNA and already knows where I am at all times. Why do think they keep them in circulation?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

I'm going to start making black boxes!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

And you guy think you've got problems.... Tony (am I President yet?) Blair is making every car, van a lorry in the UK carry a black box that will be tracked at all times by GPS so that the government can bill us for the milage wwe do and depending on the roads we use. And no one seems to be bothered!

Obviously you are. That means it's likely that others are, too. You live in a free country; it's time to put that freedom to use. Start writing letters to the editor, contact your local MP, put on petition drives, get your friends involved, organize, organize! Grassroots movements can work in democratic countries, but you have to put in the effort.

[livendive 8]

Quote

I will try. Please ask again as I am not sure the question you want me to answer.

I said that tracking who I call and who calls me is like following me around to see where I stop my truck and who I talk to. That there should be reaonable suspicion of some wrongdoing and a warrant (judicial approval) for such activities. You told me to stop being so paranoid. That they were only tracking who we call and who calls us, not recording our calls. I asked where I said otherwise.

Just an FYI - at the top of each post there's a link that says "in reply to". If you click those you'll be able to backstep through the conversation. This is especially useful when people don't quote the text to which they are replying.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

Past performance is not proof of future accuracy.

The wind came out of that balloon fast, didn't it?

. . =(_8^(1)

[TheAnvil 0]

I'm not. A leak is a leak. There are avenues to take within an organization if you disagree with something that's being done on moral or legal grounds. Leaking information is not one of those avenues. They should be fired. NSA in particular is one organization where leaks have no place. You must be trusted to betray and those who leak information cannot be trusted.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

I will try. Please ask again as I am not sure the question you want me to answer.

I said that tracking who I call and who calls me is like following me around to see where I stop my truck and who I talk to. That there should be reaonable suspicion of some wrongdoing and a warrant (judicial approval) for such activities. You told me to stop being so paranoid. That they were only tracking who we call and who calls us, not recording our calls. I asked where I said otherwise.

Just an FYI - at the top of each post there's a link that says "in reply to". If you click those you'll be able to backstep through the conversation. This is especially useful when people don't quote the text to which they are replying.

Blues,
Dave

I know how to use the in reply to button. You did not specificlly state the calls were being recorded.

My point is if there are not being recorded then what is to worry about. Also, the US Supreme court said that you do not have the right to resoanbly expect that the "number" you call or the "number" that calls you to be protected.

and it is not like being followed. When that is happening information about your activities can or are being collected. On the other hand, some one can follow you all day and you can say nothing about it unless they are harassing you.

Did that answer your question

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,131]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I will try. Please ask again as I am not sure the question you want me to answer.

I said that tracking who I call and who calls me is like following me around to see where I stop my truck and who I talk to. That there should be reaonable suspicion of some wrongdoing and a warrant (judicial approval) for such activities. You told me to stop being so paranoid. That they were only tracking who we call and who calls us, not recording our calls. I asked where I said otherwise.

Just an FYI - at the top of each post there's a link that says "in reply to". If you click those you'll be able to backstep through the conversation. This is especially useful when people don't quote the text to which they are replying.

Blues,
Dave

I know how to use the in reply to button. You did not specificlly state the calls were being recorded.

My point is if there are not being recorded then what is to worry about. Also, the US Supreme court said that you do not have the right to resoanbly expect that the "number" you call or the "number" that calls you to be protected.

and it is not like being followed. When that is happening information about your activities can or are being collected. On the other hand, some one can follow you all day and you can say nothing about it unless they are harassing you.

Did that answer your question

"Land of the free and the home of the brave" should be struck from the National Anthem, it's now false advertizing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Once again I will state my position (since you seemed to have missed it) If this was not an issue more than 10 years ago it should not be an issue today. Was this an issue of the same magnitue for you 10 years ago?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

"Land of the free and the home of the brave" should be struck from the National Anthem, it's now false advertizing.

Since this issue is so important to you, will you no longer support the political party in charge at the time of the program's creation.

I can understand everybody not realizing such a program existed. I can understand a lot of people thinking that it is an important infringement of our privacy rights. I can't understand how the same people are able to assign blame to Bush because they think it will score political points, and hasten the day when the party that is responsible for this program can be back in power.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

I will try. Please ask again as I am not sure the question you want me to answer.

I said that tracking who I call and who calls me is like following me around to see where I stop my truck and who I talk to. That there should be reaonable suspicion of some wrongdoing and a warrant (judicial approval) for such activities. You told me to stop being so paranoid. That they were only tracking who we call and who calls us, not recording our calls. I asked where I said otherwise.

Just an FYI - at the top of each post there's a link that says "in reply to". If you click those you'll be able to backstep through the conversation. This is especially useful when people don't quote the text to which they are replying.

Blues,
Dave

You must be really pissed when you see those "incoming call from" and "outbound call too" columns on your phone bill, then...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I will try. Please ask again as I am not sure the question you want me to answer.

I said that tracking who I call and who calls me is like following me around to see where I stop my truck and who I talk to. That there should be reaonable suspicion of some wrongdoing and a warrant (judicial approval) for such activities. You told me to stop being so paranoid. That they were only tracking who we call and who calls us, not recording our calls. I asked where I said otherwise.

Just an FYI - at the top of each post there's a link that says "in reply to". If you click those you'll be able to backstep through the conversation. This is especially useful when people don't quote the text to which they are replying.

Blues,
Dave

You must be really pissed when you see those "incoming call from" and "outbound call too" columns on your phone bill, then...

Nope. The phone company I contract with has a good reason (i.e. not "unreasonable") for tracking those data points and I've agreed to it by subscribing to their service. The government has no good reason to track who I call and who calls me. If they develop a good reason, they should use it to get a warrant.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

I will try. Please ask again as I am not sure the question you want me to answer.

I said that tracking who I call and who calls me is like following me around to see where I stop my truck and who I talk to. That there should be reaonable suspicion of some wrongdoing and a warrant (judicial approval) for such activities. You told me to stop being so paranoid. That they were only tracking who we call and who calls us, not recording our calls. I asked where I said otherwise.

Just an FYI - at the top of each post there's a link that says "in reply to". If you click those you'll be able to backstep through the conversation. This is especially useful when people don't quote the text to which they are replying.

Blues,
Dave

You must be really pissed when you see those "incoming call from" and "outbound call too" columns on your phone bill, then...

Nope. The phone company I contract with has a good reason (i.e. not "unreasonable") for tracking those data points and I've agreed to it by subscribing to their service. The government has no good reason to track who I call and who calls me. If they develop a good reason, they should use it to get a warrant.

Blues,
Dave

Will they develope a good reason after listening to your calls?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

The phone company I contract with has a good reason (i.e. not "unreasonable") for tracking those data points and I've agreed to it by subscribing to their service.

Does the phone company (AT&T, BellSouth and Verizon) providing call records to the NSA suck? Abso-fucking-lutely.

Is it within their legal rights to do so? Possibly...maybe even probably.

Sounds like it's time to switch phone companies!!

Quote

The government has no good reason to track who I call and who calls me.

Ever made any phone calls outside of the country? Those have been recorded and analyzed for the last 40+ years.

I haven't seen a whole lot of outrage about omnivore/carnivore, outside the first upheaval when people found out about it... and people still don't have much of a kick about Echelon, either, and it's been around for decades.

I'm interested to see how this shakes down between the "profiling" and "anti-profiling" crowd.

Poeple don't start bitching until they feel something directly impacts them...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[livendive 8]

Quote

Does the phone company (AT&T, BellSouth and Verizon) providing call records to the NSA suck? Abso-fucking-lutely.

Is it within their legal rights to do so? Possibly...maybe even probably.

Sounds like it's time to switch phone companies!!

...

Poeple don't start bitching until they feel something directly impacts them...

Actually, I'm not with any of those companies, so I'm not directly impacted, but I'm bitching anyhow (though I am hoping to see Qwest pick up some business out of this!). Gradual erosion of the 4th amendment is no better than erosion of the 1st or 2nd, and I'm not going to wait till it directly impacts me to complain about it. And if it was happening under Clinton, or Bush Sr., or Reagan, or Carter...shame on them too.

Fucking liberal government!

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,095]

>A leak is a leak.

Not when it's a non-leak!

>There are avenues to take within an organization if you disagree
>with something that's being done on moral or legal grounds.

Unless you're in the adminstration. Then you just unclassify it, non-leak it and slam the guy.

>You must be trusted to betray and those who leak information cannot be trusted.

That's so 1998! Haven't you heard there's a war on terror going on? The administration must be free to leak whatever they want - or the terrorists have already won.

[TheAnvil 0]

A horse is a horse of course, of course, and no one could talk to a horse, of course, unless, of course, the horse, of course, was the famous Vinny the Anvil!

Oh wait. I'm a JACKASS and not a horse. Never mind.

Somehow I thought of the Mr. Ed theme when reading your post. I know not why.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 3,095]

>I am challenging Zippos's claim that Bush's poll numbers are at 31% and dropping.

May 11, 2006, 9:12 pm
Bush’s Approval Rating Drops

President Bush’s job-approval rating has fallen to its lowest mark of his presidency, according to a new Harris Interactive poll. Of 1,003 U.S. adults surveyed in a telephone poll, 29% think Mr. Bush is doing an “excellent or pretty good” job as president, down from 35% in April and significantly lower than 43% in January.

----------------

For the most recent poll results:

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

There you will see the most recent polls through 5/10. May's results vary between 31 and 38%, thus supporting Zippo's statement.

[champu 1]

Quote

Tracking who I call and who calls me is no different then following me around waiting to see where I stop my car.

This is actually a fairly good analogy.

I would caution people who brush this kind of data aggregation off as benign. Don't kid yourself in thinking the NSA is going to put together millions upon millions of call records, take a few steps back from their newly amassed pile, and just marvel at it endlessly.

Specific patterns found in this kind of data tends to trigger further scrutiny, and I think that's really at the heart of what worries most people.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Tell you what. His quote is 31% and dropping. Lets see what it is next week. If it's 30 or less, I'll concede. If it's 32 or more you concede. Fair enough?

-

[Amazon 7]

Quote

>A leak is a leak.

Not when it's a non-leak!

>There are avenues to take within an organization if you disagree
>with something that's being done on moral or legal grounds.

Unless you're in the adminstration. Then you just unclassify it, non-leak it and slam the guy.

And apparently the Administration shot itself in the foot even more with Plame... and the non leak.

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002426164

NEW YORK What was Valerie Plame working on at the CIA when she was outed by administraton officials and columnist Robert Novak? MSNBC's David Schuster on Monday said he had confirmed an earlier report that she was helping to keep track of Iran's nuclear activity--not a front and center issue for the White House.

Earlier this year, Larisa Alexandrovna of the Web site RawStory.com, reported that Plame, whose covert status was compromised in the leak, was monitoring weapons proliferation in Iran. At the time, officials told her that Plame's outing resulted in "severe" damage to her team and "significantly hampered the CIA's ability to monitor nuclear proliferation."

On last night's Hardball, MSNBC correspondent Shuster reported that intelligence sources told him thatr Wilson was part of an operation three years ago "tracking the proliferation of nuclear weapons material into Iran." And the sources asserted, he said, "that when here Wilson's cover was blown, the administration's ability to track Iran's nuclear ambitions was damaged as well."




But I guess...... the President doesn't need any more information about the .......Iranian "Nucular" program.

Edited to add obligatory dots to make someone cringe

[akarunway 1]

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2006/05/11/bushs-approval-ratings/

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.