NSA and YOUR phone calls

[sundevil777 102]

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> . . .to be above the people or our constitution.

That's what's really worrying me. His prolific use of signing statements, his blocking of DOJ investigations by classifying information, his declassification of sensitive information to use as a political tool, his contempt for the lawmaking powers of Congress - all that is leaving a legacy of president-as-ruler instead of president-as-executive. And that is a VERY bad legacy to leave, IMO.

I think the congress is quite worthy of contempt.

The balance of powers does not stay balanced if a president complies with every request for information from any congressional agency/dept/subcommittee that makes a request.

Some that study such stuff conclude that the power of the executive has been reduced in modern history as the power of the legislature and courts have increased. Certainly the legislature and courts are not shy about asserting their power, why should the executive be passive and give in to their demands?

On the subject of declassifying info to use as a political tool, If providing information to assist in being an advocate for his own policies is "using it as a political tool" then so be it. Do you have a concern that the info he declassified should have stayed secret? He has the duty to not just roll over for any every stupid accusation made against him.

Can't take the politics out of politics.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[penniless 0]

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No, it is more likley 100s Millions of calls. That is not the point.........

Well, my point is simply that it doesn't seem that it's discrete records of discrete calls. It appears, at least on the face of it, that the NSA is attempting to assemble a database of every single telephone call not just to and from the US, but also within the US, regardless of from whom or to whom.

Look, this is a political gotch type story as it not new. They are not listening only collecting number to number records.

Read here http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/5/11/105237.shtml?s=ic

Newsmax - BWAAA Ha Ha.

[penniless 0]

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31% and falling fast.

'Nuff said.

Zipp0

Nope, not nuff said. 40% and rising.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

President Bush Job Approval
RasmussenReports.com

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You might want to reconsider bragging about those (skewed) numbers. They are nothing at all to hang your hat on.

LOL

Zipp0

Only skewed because they refute your claims. Do some research on Rasmussen before you bash them. They have a very long history of being right when The usual suspects CNNMSNBCABC etc have been way off.

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Who defines "Way off"? Newsmax?

www.voanews.com/english/2006-05-11-voa39.cfm

[rushmc 23]

Didn't read it did ya?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[penniless 0]

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Didn't read it did ya?

The National Enquirer is more fun and just as accurate.

[TheAnvil 0]

One wonders why this was leaked at the same time General Hayden is also being nominated for Director of the CIA.

One also wonders how those who were decrying the Plame non-leak and not decrying this leak of information can look at themselves in the mirror and not think 'hypocrite'.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[rushmc 23]

The majority of articles I reference from NewMax are reprints from other news sources (Like the Drudge Report)

The link I provided is one of these cases.

However, since you indicate that you will not go there I will sumerize.

This story broke last December. The fact that the main stream sources (the ones you must like) choose to treat this story as something new is just another notch in the proof belt that those (your favorite news outlets) have a major agenda.

wikepedia on the other hand is open to any modification or update by anubody. Bush aids have been caught changing things on the site as have many other polictical operatives (from both sides) So, compairing wikopedia to anything else (as the robot from Lost in Space said "does not compute"

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Who have YOU been calling so much that your panties are in a wad?

hmmmmmmmm?

you know when you think youre all alone talking to Al Franken while he flys you around in his flying saucer(which requires no fuel) are you actually worried that someone is listening to your plans to overthrow the RNC?

THE MOTHERSHIP??????

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Then why did they not object say ... .... ....10 years ago?

Oh, oh, I know. A republican was not in office.

Funny how that works huh

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 3]

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One wonders why this was leaked at the same time General Hayden is also being nominated for Director of the CIA.

One also wonders how those who were decrying the Plame non-leak and not decrying this leak of information can look at themselves in the mirror and not think 'hypocrite'.

I realize instinctively you might think it was the Dems, but don't be so sure - it might have been an inside job:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194584,00.html

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WASHINGTON — A leading Republican came out against the front-runner for CIA director, Gen. Michael Hayden, saying Sunday the spy agency should not have military leadership during a turbulent time among intelligence agencies.

.....Despite a distinguished career at the Defense Department, Hayden would be "the wrong person, the wrong place at the wrong time," said the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R[epublican]-Mich.

[TheAnvil 0]

Actually, I suspect it's an NSA staffer perturbed at the possibility of an AF general running the CIA. Could be anyone. Whomever it is, they should have their clearances revoked immediately and spend a bit of time in prison.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Andy9o8 3]

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Then why did they not object say ... .... ....10 years ago?

Oh, oh, I know. A republican was not in office.

Funny how that works huh

Maybe 10 years ago it was still secret enough that it wasn't common knowledge.

Sure, both hard-core Dems and Repubs can be very partisan in how & when they choose to posture about something. But some things transcend partisanship if they go to core values enough. For Repubs, that might be such core things as national defense, or taxes. Repubs will fight against any politician thought to be weak on defense, or willing to tax & spend freely, even if he's a Repub. From a Repub, they'd view it as a betrayal.

Similarly, for Dems, civil liberties tends to be one of those hot-button issues. I think that if many Dems thought their private phone records were being trolled & gathered by the govt, even during a Dem administration, they'd object pretty loudly, especially from a Dem administration, from which they'd view it as a betrayal.

[mnealtx 0]

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> . . .to be above the people or our constitution.

That's what's really worrying me. His prolific use of signing statements, his blocking of DOJ investigations by classifying information, his declassification of sensitive information to use as a political tool, his contempt for the lawmaking powers of Congress - all that is leaving a legacy of president-as-ruler instead of president-as-executive. And that is a VERY bad legacy to leave, IMO.

Clinton did much the same, and I'm sure with some digging examples could be found for Bush pere as well.

Acton's law comes into play...as it usually does with any politician.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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Actually, I suspect it's an NSA staffer perturbed at the possibility of an AF general running the CIA. Could be anyone. Whomever it is, they should have their clearances revoked immediately and spend a bit of time in prison.

Maybe they should just spank their wrist, and make sure they check their pants and socks next time??

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

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Then why did they not object say ... .... ....10 years ago?

Oh, oh, I know. A republican was not in office.

Funny how that works huh

Maybe 10 years ago it was still secret enough that it wasn't common knowledge.

Sure, both hard-core Dems and Repubs can be very partisan in how & when they choose to posture about something. But some things transcend partisanship if they go to core values enough. For Repubs, that might be such core things as national defense, or taxes. Repubs will fight against any politician thought to be weak on defense, or willing to tax & spend freely, even if he's a Repub. From a Repub, they'd view it as a betrayal.

Similarly, for Dems, civil liberties tends to be one of those hot-button issues. I think that if many Dems thought their private phone records were being trolled & gathered by the govt, even during a Dem administration, they'd object pretty loudly, especially from a Dem administration, from which they'd view it as a betrayal.

This program has been known about since Carter. It has been raised many times.

AND THE CALLS ARE NOT BEING RECORDED!!! dam....

http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/05/cyber/articles/27network.html

Here is a nearer term article.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Skyrad 0]

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This is terrible! This means 200 million americans are members of al qaeda.

Well, I guess if you can't beat them....

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 3,132]

>Whomever it is, they should have their clearances revoked immediately
> and spend a bit of time in prison.

Unless it ends up damaging a democrat. In that case, it was a non-leak; the president secretly declassified it before it was released.

[rushmc 23]

ABC reported that Feingold said this program is not illegal on the news tonight



Ah....wait......I did not see/hear that on ABC, uh, I don't watch ABC ah, I read it on NewMax no wait.
I saw it on CNN shit ........crap.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[livendive 8]

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AND THE CALLS ARE NOT BEING RECORDED!!! dam....

Tracking who I call and who calls me is no different then following me around waiting to see where I stop my car. Would you want a fed following you around and jotting down everyone you talk to in the course of your day? Our government should have probable cause and a warrant from the judiciary before taking such actions. If you don't give a shit about your privacy, then feel free to surrender it to them. As for me, as long as the government has no reason to believe I'm a criminal I'd like them to leave me with mine.

Babysteps...

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

what number to that number. Your calls are not being recorded. Numbers only.

Stop being so paranoid (but you can go ahead if you hate Bush)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[TheAnvil 0]

Regardless of whom it damages politically, actually. I'm not following what you're alluding to, but I'm a bit tired so perhaps it will come to me.

This was either a member of Congress or a CIA or NSA employee in all likelihood. They should be fired and spend a bit of time behind bars.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[livendive 8]

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what number to that number. Your calls are not being recorded. Numbers only.

Where did I say otherwise?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,132]

>They should be fired and spend a bit of time behind bars.

Why, if the president decides it's a non-leak?

[livendive 8]

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This was either a member of Congress or a CIA or NSA employee in all likelihood. They should be fired and spend a bit of time behind bars.

I'll wait till I know more of the facts before completely disagreeing, but right now I'd lean more towards giving the person whistle-blower status.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

It was not a story or issue in 1997, it is not an issue (worth talking about unles you want to hang Bush) now

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln