NSA and YOUR phone calls

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

The reason is can't be done is because nothing illegal has happeed but I know you don't care about that

A lot of Republicans disagree with you.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Let the DOJ do their job. If nothing illegal happened, so be it. But stonewalling an investigation gives an appearance of guilt.

Zipp0

THAT was the big surprise for me. To block out the Justice Dept, the same department that's been running protection for the White House for the last few years, now that's noteworthy.
As an aside, anyone check Qwest's stock today?

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You got it backwards. The courts have heard this since back before Clinton. You are, by your actions and requests, supporting the Bush has to prove he is not quilty attitude.

Last I knew in this country, you have to prove him guilty. Can't be done so the bs continues.

The reason it can't be done is because the NSA won't grant the DOJ clearances so they can perform a proper investigation!

Blues,
Dave

The reason is can't be done is because nothing illegal has happeed but I know you don't care about that

How do you know nothing illegal has happened? Did they give you a clearance to investigate the program while blocking out the DOJ?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,111]

>The reason is can't be done is because nothing illegal has happeed . . .

Of course! If a politician says nothing illegal has happened, then nothing illegal has happened. Now if those idiots who don't believe Kennedy was sober when he was pulled over would just see the light . . .

[Channman 2]

> No, it is more likley 100s Millions of calls. That is not the point.........

Getting involved in this conversation way late, however it was not that long ago many people were pissed because our government did not connect the dots. The News media, Senate, Congress...howcome no one connected the Dots.

Now our government is trying to connect the dots, save american lives and we hear from the Left how outragged they are, and now seem to be coming up with a Terrorist Bill of Rights.

Can't fight em, detain em, listen in on em, but we are going to be damn sure we tie our hands to provent us from ever defeating em.

Corporations have for year sold my personnal information without my consent, I've endured numerous mailings requesting me to by this or that, Pre Approved Credit offers no questions asked. They seem to know my name, were I live, work, and house hold income. Not so much of a whimper from the american consumer when compared to this so called NSA spying.

If a number from a know terrorist is matched calling a number in the US, then and only then is a court order requested to begin an investigation or surveillance if deemed necessary. (Thats my understanding)

[Zipp0 1]

Quote

> No, it is more likley 100s Millions of calls. That is not the point.........

Getting involved in this conversation way late, however it was not that long ago many people were pissed because our government did not connect the dots. The News media, Senate, Congress...howcome no one connected the Dots.

Now our government is trying to connect the dots, save american lives and we hear from the Left how outragged they are, and now seem to be coming up with a Terrorist Bill of Rights.

Can't fight em, detain em, listen in on em, but we are going to be damn sure we tie our hands to provent us from ever defeating em.

Corporations have for year sold my personnal information without my consent, I've endured numerous mailings requesting me to by this or that, Pre Approved Credit offers no questions asked. They seem to know my name, were I live, work, and house hold income. Not so much of a whimper from the american consumer when compared to this so called NSA spying.

If a number from a know terrorist is matched calling a number in the US, then and only then is a court order requested to begin an investigation or surveillance if deemed necessary. (Thats my understanding)

I see you listened to Limbaugh today. Yeah, I heard him say this stuff too(connecting the dots). Scanning the records of all Americans, even if it is phone numbers only, looking for criminal activity is not a good role for government.

Note to the White House: The George Orwell book was a WARNING, not a goddamn HOW-To MANUAL!

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[billvon 3,111]

>...howcome no one connected the Dots.

The clear answer to not being able to connect a few dots is to add 200 million more dots. Or, as someone else put it - if you're looking for a needle in a haystack, the answer is (of course) to make the haystack bigger.

>If a number from a know terrorist is matched calling a number
>in the US, then and only then is a court order requested to begin an
>investigation or surveillance if deemed necessary.

So let's see:

Our story began with an executive that would tap any phone calls from known Al Qaeda agents; not americans. Fine.

Then it was revealed that they were tapping american's phone calls overseas - but they said they would never, ever do anything like that within the US. In other words they lied and got caught, as often happens in politics.

Then it was revealed that they WERE monitoring US phone calls after all. Lied and caught again! But they promise to never, ever monitor the calls without a court order.

How gullible would you have to be to believe that? "Yeah, we were lying about that other stuff, but this time we really mean it."

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

So let's see:

Our story began with an executive that would tap any phone calls from known Al Qaeda agents; not americans. Fine.

No problem with that.

Quote

Then it was revealed that they were tapping american's phone calls overseas - but they said they would never, ever do anything like that within the US. In other words they lied and got caught, as often happens in politics.

As I've stated many times in the this thread... Echelon has been doing that for 40+ years... why is this suddenly only a problem NOW?

Quote

Then it was revealed that they WERE monitoring US phone calls after all. Lied and caught again! But they promise to never, ever monitor the calls without a court order.

Is this overseas or in-country calls?

Quote

How gullible would you have to be to believe that? "Yeah, we were lying about that other stuff, but this time we really mean it."

Again, it's been ongoing for several years (pre-GW), and it's just now a problem?

Where's the gullibility, again?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

The clear answer to not being able to connect a few dots is to add 200 million more dots. Or, as someone else put it - if you're looking for a needle in a haystack, the answer is (of course) to make the haystack bigger.

Great..here's the email for the Whitehouse. I'm sure they would love to hear your plan for a better way of doing it.

comments@Whitehouse.Gov.

[Zipp0 1]

Quote

As I've stated many times in the this thread... Echelon has been doing that for 40+ years... why is this suddenly only a problem NOW?

You have no direct knowledge of this, or any specific information. You assume that you know what information they may or may not have been gathering. The whole story may have been a big misinformation ploy to see what our intelligence targets did.

We currently have proof that they are doing questionable monitoring - the president himself admitted it. There is the difference.

And what is the next logical step? How about if the post office opened your mail?

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Channman 2]

> And what is the next logical step? How about if the post office opened your mail?

How about if they start opening up our medical records?

[billvon 3,111]

>Where's the gullibility, again?

Ach, you're right. How foolish of us to question our government. I'm sure our rights will be protected if we simply afford them enough power to protect them. Heck, I'll be those WMD's will be found any day, the deficit will disappear real soon now, and the media will admit that Iraq is actually more peaceful than Salt Lake City. All that's left to do is click your heels together three times, vote republican and everything will work out fine.

(At least we know where that 29% is coming from . . .)

[rushmc 23]

The majority don't if you have read todays papers....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Burden of proof is on you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

...again. the burden of prood lies with the accusers doesn't it?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,111]

>...again. the burden of prood lies with the accusers doesn't it?

Sorry, that was the old constitution. In the new constitution, you just need to claim "national security" and you can arrest whoever you choose for no reason.

[rushmc 23]

>We currently have proof that they are doing questionable monitoring - the president himself admitted it. There is the difference.<

THEN F#$%ING PRESENT IT!!! You have taken the honest responce and turned it into prood something illegal is going on?

That statement is a dam lie. This whole story was brought up last December. It has been brought up again to try and kill a nominee. Or are to too blind to ...............

f#%k it, I am wasting my time

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>...again. the burden of prood lies with the accusers doesn't it?

Sorry, that was the old constitution. In the new constitution, you just need to claim "national security" and you can arrest whoever you choose for no reason.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[livendive 8]

Quote

Burden of proof is on you

No, it's on the DOJ...and they're not being allowed to determine whether such proof exists.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

Quote

>We currently have proof that they are doing questionable monitoring - the president himself admitted it. There is the difference.<

THEN F#$%ING PRESENT IT!!! You have taken the honest responce and turned it into prood something illegal is going on?

Notice the difference? "Questionable" means more questions should be asked. The DOJ should be the ones asking them, but the NSA has told them they can't have the answers.

Quote

f#%k it, I am wasting my time

Apparently so am I.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,111]

>THEN F#$%ING PRESENT IT!!!

IT WAS PRESENTED IN COURT! The adminstration is attempting to stop one such case by claiming national security would be compromised if the case goes forward. Another such case was dropped by the DoJ when the administration would not allow DoJ members access to the evidence. You can't rely on the justice system when the administration shuts it down whenever it might result in an unfavorable ruling.

An honest question - what would the administration have to do before you stopped trusting them 100%? If it arrested the judges that were hearing the cases, would that do it?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

You have no direct knowledge of this, or any specific information. You assume that you know what information they may or may not have been gathering. The whole story may have been a big misinformation ploy to see what our intelligence targets did.

Argumentum ad ignorantiam

Quote

We currently have proof that they are doing questionable monitoring - the president himself admitted it. There is the difference.

I thought you said Bush was a liar... or is that only when he doesn't give answers you like?

Quote

And what is the next logical step? How about if the post office opened your mail?

That, there are postal laws against...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

You know, it was presented in 1997. The court said that no one can expect the numbers data to be private.

You can do a google search and buy the same type of records.

This issue is a political gotcha story only for the Bush haters and those that do not like the new CIA canidate. Aparently you have bought into this illusion......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,111]

>You can do a google search and buy the same type of records.

Then why block the court cases? Why not let our justice system work and show that there is no problem with his actions?

>This issue is a political gotcha story only for the Bush haters . . .

. . . which now make up 65% of the country. (If, of course, you equate Bush haters with people who do not obey him 100% - which you clearly do.)

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>Where's the gullibility, again?

Ach, you're right. How foolish of us to question our government. I'm sure our rights will be protected if we simply afford them enough power to protect them. Heck, I'll be those WMD's will be found any day, the deficit will disappear real soon now, and the media will admit that Iraq is actually more peaceful than Salt Lake City. All that's left to do is click your heels together three times, vote republican and everything will work out fine.

(At least we know where that 29% is coming from . . .)

Where am I saying that, Bill? Argue the point.

I'm saying that it is a well known fact that Echelon has been in operation for DECADES - so, how much of this is actual fact, and how much overblown hype to "get Bush?"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706