skydyvr 0 #51 May 8, 2006 QuotePerhaps we should give everyone who buys a Harley free access to drug and alcohol counseling resources - get that shit out of their system before they kill somebody There, fixed it for you. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #52 May 8, 2006 QuoteEverybody who gets a zip bike should be allowed access to a closed airport and the opportunity to run it back and forth on the runway at 155mph until they get it out of their system or take themselves out without harming others. I know what you mean but it is difficult at best to teach every rider to stay within ones own limits. I had an awful experience years ago, with some unknown rider chasing me, then trying to race me out on US34 going towards I39. Well the guy seemed to not realize you need to lean a whole lot at those speeds. He bobbled it in a curve and went over the high side at a very high rate of speed....I stopped and called 911. I should have called the coroner I never knew that guy, and wish he had never ridden any motorcycle at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,521 #53 May 8, 2006 QuoteI know what you mean but it is difficult at best to teach every rider to stay within ones own limits. That was the main point of my comment. It's not unlike someone downsizing too soon and scaring themselves a bit into respecting their gear, motorcycle, etc. Kind of an adrenaline hypothalmus. You reach that point of "ah shit" once and you're more likely to respect that point before getting to it.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #54 May 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteI know what you mean but it is difficult at best to teach every rider to stay within ones own limits. That was the main point of my comment. It's not unlike someone downsizing too soon and scaring themselves a bit into respecting their gear, motorcycle, etc. Kind of an adrenaline hypothalmus. You reach that point of "ah shit" once and you're more likely to respect that point before getting to it. EXACTLY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #55 May 8, 2006 Sounds sadly familiar. My girlfriend is also a Barrister and we sometimes discuss interesting cases. She dealt with a case last week where a motorcyclist decided he needed to test some of the mods he'd just added to his drag bike. 'Course he doesn't own a racetrack so the local industrial estate with its generally quiet public roads would just have to suffice. Now, the police don't think he'd activated the NOS fitted to his heavily modified drag/race bike yet... but that didn't stop him getting up to about 100mph before noticing a small car pulling out of a junction some way ahead of him. The car he managed to T-bone was a little hatchback similar to that in the shots attached to the first post of this thread and despite the fact that race bikes really don't weigh all that much, Mr. Bike rider managed to spin the car a full 180 degrees on impact.. When the car had finished spinning, its occupant (who thankfully survived the smash) noticed that oddly the bike rider was still on the side of his car. I say oddly because normally you'd expect a rider to be thrown clear of the car as it spun violently around. This didn't happen in this case because the rider was now thoroughly attached to the car. See when I earlier said that the rider was still on the side of the car, what I ought to have perhaps said was that he was pretty well impaled on the car... or perhaps even more correctly; the car was impaled on him. His femurs had each managed to punch through the steel bodywork and anchored him where he hit. His head had made it most of the way through the roof as if it were some macabre can-opener. He's now suing the car driver for pulling out in front of him. Of course his Claim Form doesn't make any mention of the fact that when the car pulled out of the junction he was about a third of a mile away and doing a three digit speed, well out of sight of the car driver. He'll get some money for sure... just not anywhere near as much as he's asking for. To paraphrase Lawrocket – if you must shit in the street, don't be surprised if you yourself end up slipping in it... and it'll stink just as bad even though it's your own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #56 May 8, 2006 hmmmm sounds as if he is the worlds worst rider. 1760 feet and he couldn't stop a bike that was only doing 100mph? I am certain I can get my bike up to 100mph and back to zero in less that that distance. But that's my bike and me riding and I have had the thing since 1992 and its my fifth motorcycle as an adult. I have been riding since I was 8 yrs old, and I am 44 now....holy shit I never thought I would live to see 40! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #57 May 8, 2006 You have trouble with bad drivers. That's a good position. The rest is really jumbled. Do you consider going 155 mph on motorcycle 'bad driving'? It's pretty simple at that point. If so, I can't tell what you are arguing with these guys about? I can tell you I think any car going that speed in off a track is bad driving. Ditto on a bike. Especially on a stretch with an intersection. Seems pretty simple. What I'm getting is that you're saying motorcyclists can do any damn thing they want until every single other instance of bad driving is cleaned up first - especially those damn soccer mom's in their SUVs. I doubt that's your position in reality. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #58 May 8, 2006 It all depends when he managed to see the car for the first time. Remember he was out of sight to the car when the driver decided to pull out... If he only crested the rise 100yrds from the junction, at 100mph that gives him about 2 seconds to: 1) see the car, 2) decide to do something about it, 3) hit the brakes, 4) skid to a halt, 5) try to stay upright, So far as the crash investigators can tell, impact took place somewhere between 2) and 3)... certainly well before 4). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #59 May 8, 2006 One thing I rarely see is someone riding as I do...covering the clutch and brake with your fingers always in an urban area... damn does it cut reaction time!you want a sport bike or any bike?... take a WERA or similar course and learn it until it's all reflex. I did AMA superbike school in Riverside back in 83 and I did WERA back in 92 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #60 May 8, 2006 QuoteOne thing I rarely see is someone riding as I do...covering the clutch and brake with your fingers always in an urban area... damn does it cut reaction time! Most riding instructors advice against that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #61 May 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteOne thing I rarely see is someone riding as I do...covering the clutch and brake with your fingers always in an urban area... damn does it cut reaction time! Most riding instructors advice against that. I will take Alive and Wrong, over Dead and Right any day of the week. there are many factors to consider in doing so: Coordination Hand Size Lever Distance Experience it is much akin to teaching students to use russian radar,never ever taking your hands out of the toggles, practicing riser turns, braking, cross contol etc. learn everything you can for someday you will need it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #62 May 8, 2006 QuoteYou have trouble with bad drivers. That's a good position. The rest is really jumbled. Allow me to quote from my earlier post: QuotePlace the blame where it truly belongs: on the dipshit behind the wheel - or the handlebars as the case my be. I don't know what your definition of jumbled is but, to me, that statement is very concise and to the point. My point is quite simple: Driving beyond ones control range in -ANY- vehicle, be it a Honda, a Harley, or a Hummer, can have very serious consequences. The difference is that no matter who's at fault, it's -normally- the dude on the scooter that ends up splattered across three lanes of traffic. My gripe is with the use of this very rare (yet no less tragic) incident, to further the generalization that motorycylists are inherently irresponsible, crazy, and unpredictable, drivers, because that is simply not true. Peace, Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #63 May 8, 2006 There ought to be a LAW! we should outlaw every activity that can result in death. If we all call our legislators we can outlaw death itself! Live life like you know you are going to die. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zee 0 #64 May 8, 2006 QuoteThat was the main point of my comment. It's not unlike someone downsizing too soon and scaring themselves a bit into respecting their gear, motorcycle, etc. Kind of an adrenaline hypothalmus. You reach that point of "ah shit" once and you're more likely to respect that point before getting to it. Very well put - As someone who has done that very thing with both parachutes and motorcycles, I completely agree. If I misunderstood your post, I apologize. Peace, Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #65 May 8, 2006 QuoteMy point is quite simple: Driving beyond ones control range in -ANY- vehicle, be it a Honda, a Harley, or a Hummer, can have very serious consequences. My bad, I read some sarcasm in a couple posts where you were actually being sincere. I shouldn't have put you in the category with posters from another thread that try to rationalize this type of driving. you and I are in strong agreement ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zee 0 #66 May 8, 2006 QuoteMy bad, I read some sarcasm in a couple posts....... Sarcasm? In my posts? You've got to be shittin' me Keep the shiny side up, Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,521 #67 May 9, 2006 No worries, mate... sometimes the written word does not comunicate the total intent.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeiber 0 #68 May 9, 2006 Quote In January, a jury found Butler not guilty of three counts of vehicular homicide and two counts of serious injury by vehicle. A judge then found Butler guilty of the two traffic violations and on February 5 fined him $70. So, are you going to share the rest of the story? What were the circumstances that convinced a jury that he was innocent? Sounds like the typical media telling half the story, once again. I bet if we hear the rest of the story, it might not sound so obsurd... Then again, the full story wouldn't support your point of view, so why cloud the issue with facts? JShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zee 0 #69 May 10, 2006 QuoteSo, are you going to share the rest of the story? What were the circumstances that convinced a jury that he was innocent? I have no idea what convinced a jury of his innocence. Then again, I don't know what convinced a jury to let O.J walk either. The American justice system is riddled with absurd judgments. Here's the rest of the story: Tama County Attorney Brent Heeren, who prosecuted the case, was outraged over the fines and believes the judge could have imposed as much as 60 days in jail and $1,000 in fines for the two traffic infractions. He pushed to have the decision considered by the Iowa Supreme Court. “I don’t think two $35 fines where three people are dead and two seriously injured was justice,’’ Heeren told the Des Moines Register. Meanwhile, several civil suits have been filed in the case. Quote Then again, the full story wouldn't support your point of view, so why cloud the issue with facts? How much of the story do you think we heard from Billy? No media hype there? Buy hey, since you're the Guru here, feel free to enlighten me. Tell me exactly what part of my position that you disagree with, and why? Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #70 May 10, 2006 QuoteHow much of the story do you think we heard from Billy? No media hype there? Quick websearch brings the story Billy mentioned up several times. Billy posted everything that was stated in the story.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zee 0 #71 May 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteHow much of the story do you think we heard from Billy? No media hype there? Quick websearch brings the story Billy mentioned up several times. Billy posted everything that was stated in the story. My comment was not aimed at Billy, personally - our friend J here was insinuating that media hype was only used to support my position, and not the other way around. The media will blow anything out of proportion just to sell a few extra copies. Peace, Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #72 May 10, 2006 im sure if the guy had a cam on the bike and had pulled it off you would think it were a cool video.. Just look at ghostrider.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeiber 0 #73 May 10, 2006 QuoteBuy hey, since you're the Guru here, feel free to enlighten me. Tell me exactly what part of my position that you disagree with, and why? No, actually, I'm far from a Guru here. But I do know bullshit when I smell it. Sorry, there's something significant being left out of this article; no, I don't know what. I do know that if this were the van drivers's fault, he would be up on multiple counts of vehicular homicide. Sounds alot to me like the author had an agenda... You know... a jury found the dead motocyclists responsible for their own actions, so use the media as vigilante justice. What were the motorcyclists doing, besides minding their own business and obeying the law? Not all motorcyclists are wreckless, but this article really discredits responsible riders (in my eyes), by saying even when they are at fault, they're going to try to pin it on auto drivers without accepting responsibility for their actions. Nothing personal against you dude, I just can't stand seeing people post information out of context, only for purposes of supporting their own argument. I'll try to do some searching on the Internet to see what I can find. I'm actually curious to learn the rest of the story. What do I disagree with? I suspect that the motorcyclists were doing something seriously wrong and it's intentionally being left out of the article, so the van driver looks like a criminal, and the bikers look like innocent victims. I'm not buying it... As for the initial article... I really disagree with your statement about pushing yourself. Yes, I believe everybody should always push themselves, but not at the cost of others... JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeiber 0 #74 May 10, 2006 QuoteThe media will blow anything out of proportion just to sell a few extra copies. Agreed. They'll do this for any 'position', whatever sells their product. I just think the article you posted was grossly one sided. More so than the norm... JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zee 0 #75 May 10, 2006 QuoteAs for the initial article... I really disagree with your statement about pushing yourself. Yes, I believe everybody should always push themselves, but not at the cost of others... Well, for starters, it is readily apparent that you never bothered to actually read any of my posts in this thread. Had you done so, you would have found that I never said a single word either about, or in support of, people pushing themselves in traffic. Not one single word. QuoteI do know that if this were the van drivers's fault, he would be up on multiple counts of vehicular homicide. Sounds alot to me like the author had an agenda... It's quite comforting that you know this. Had you bothered to read the article, you would know that the guy in fact -was- brought up on multiple charges of vehicular homicide and two charges of serious injury by vehicle. Maybe the author did have an agenda - or maybe the guy had a good attorney. So you think the story was skewed to support my position - All of the available information was provided in the story -Date and time of the original incident. Age, home town, first and last name of each victim, and the source of the story ( the Des Moines Register). Feel free to do some research on the story if you like - I didn't hide or skew anything. So I'll ask you again (and feel free to actually read the fucking thread before you answer this time), what part of my position do you disagree with, and why? Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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Zee 0 #64 May 8, 2006 QuoteThat was the main point of my comment. It's not unlike someone downsizing too soon and scaring themselves a bit into respecting their gear, motorcycle, etc. Kind of an adrenaline hypothalmus. You reach that point of "ah shit" once and you're more likely to respect that point before getting to it. Very well put - As someone who has done that very thing with both parachutes and motorcycles, I completely agree. If I misunderstood your post, I apologize. Peace, Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #65 May 8, 2006 QuoteMy point is quite simple: Driving beyond ones control range in -ANY- vehicle, be it a Honda, a Harley, or a Hummer, can have very serious consequences. My bad, I read some sarcasm in a couple posts where you were actually being sincere. I shouldn't have put you in the category with posters from another thread that try to rationalize this type of driving. you and I are in strong agreement ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #66 May 8, 2006 QuoteMy bad, I read some sarcasm in a couple posts....... Sarcasm? In my posts? You've got to be shittin' me Keep the shiny side up, Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,521 #67 May 9, 2006 No worries, mate... sometimes the written word does not comunicate the total intent.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #68 May 9, 2006 Quote In January, a jury found Butler not guilty of three counts of vehicular homicide and two counts of serious injury by vehicle. A judge then found Butler guilty of the two traffic violations and on February 5 fined him $70. So, are you going to share the rest of the story? What were the circumstances that convinced a jury that he was innocent? Sounds like the typical media telling half the story, once again. I bet if we hear the rest of the story, it might not sound so obsurd... Then again, the full story wouldn't support your point of view, so why cloud the issue with facts? JShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #69 May 10, 2006 QuoteSo, are you going to share the rest of the story? What were the circumstances that convinced a jury that he was innocent? I have no idea what convinced a jury of his innocence. Then again, I don't know what convinced a jury to let O.J walk either. The American justice system is riddled with absurd judgments. Here's the rest of the story: Tama County Attorney Brent Heeren, who prosecuted the case, was outraged over the fines and believes the judge could have imposed as much as 60 days in jail and $1,000 in fines for the two traffic infractions. He pushed to have the decision considered by the Iowa Supreme Court. “I don’t think two $35 fines where three people are dead and two seriously injured was justice,’’ Heeren told the Des Moines Register. Meanwhile, several civil suits have been filed in the case. Quote Then again, the full story wouldn't support your point of view, so why cloud the issue with facts? How much of the story do you think we heard from Billy? No media hype there? Buy hey, since you're the Guru here, feel free to enlighten me. Tell me exactly what part of my position that you disagree with, and why? Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #70 May 10, 2006 QuoteHow much of the story do you think we heard from Billy? No media hype there? Quick websearch brings the story Billy mentioned up several times. Billy posted everything that was stated in the story.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #71 May 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteHow much of the story do you think we heard from Billy? No media hype there? Quick websearch brings the story Billy mentioned up several times. Billy posted everything that was stated in the story. My comment was not aimed at Billy, personally - our friend J here was insinuating that media hype was only used to support my position, and not the other way around. The media will blow anything out of proportion just to sell a few extra copies. Peace, Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #72 May 10, 2006 im sure if the guy had a cam on the bike and had pulled it off you would think it were a cool video.. Just look at ghostrider.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #73 May 10, 2006 QuoteBuy hey, since you're the Guru here, feel free to enlighten me. Tell me exactly what part of my position that you disagree with, and why? No, actually, I'm far from a Guru here. But I do know bullshit when I smell it. Sorry, there's something significant being left out of this article; no, I don't know what. I do know that if this were the van drivers's fault, he would be up on multiple counts of vehicular homicide. Sounds alot to me like the author had an agenda... You know... a jury found the dead motocyclists responsible for their own actions, so use the media as vigilante justice. What were the motorcyclists doing, besides minding their own business and obeying the law? Not all motorcyclists are wreckless, but this article really discredits responsible riders (in my eyes), by saying even when they are at fault, they're going to try to pin it on auto drivers without accepting responsibility for their actions. Nothing personal against you dude, I just can't stand seeing people post information out of context, only for purposes of supporting their own argument. I'll try to do some searching on the Internet to see what I can find. I'm actually curious to learn the rest of the story. What do I disagree with? I suspect that the motorcyclists were doing something seriously wrong and it's intentionally being left out of the article, so the van driver looks like a criminal, and the bikers look like innocent victims. I'm not buying it... As for the initial article... I really disagree with your statement about pushing yourself. Yes, I believe everybody should always push themselves, but not at the cost of others... JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #74 May 10, 2006 QuoteThe media will blow anything out of proportion just to sell a few extra copies. Agreed. They'll do this for any 'position', whatever sells their product. I just think the article you posted was grossly one sided. More so than the norm... JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #75 May 10, 2006 QuoteAs for the initial article... I really disagree with your statement about pushing yourself. Yes, I believe everybody should always push themselves, but not at the cost of others... Well, for starters, it is readily apparent that you never bothered to actually read any of my posts in this thread. Had you done so, you would have found that I never said a single word either about, or in support of, people pushing themselves in traffic. Not one single word. QuoteI do know that if this were the van drivers's fault, he would be up on multiple counts of vehicular homicide. Sounds alot to me like the author had an agenda... It's quite comforting that you know this. Had you bothered to read the article, you would know that the guy in fact -was- brought up on multiple charges of vehicular homicide and two charges of serious injury by vehicle. Maybe the author did have an agenda - or maybe the guy had a good attorney. So you think the story was skewed to support my position - All of the available information was provided in the story -Date and time of the original incident. Age, home town, first and last name of each victim, and the source of the story ( the Des Moines Register). Feel free to do some research on the story if you like - I didn't hide or skew anything. So I'll ask you again (and feel free to actually read the fucking thread before you answer this time), what part of my position do you disagree with, and why? Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
