Immigration solutions

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

IIRC US unemployment rate is around 4.7% which is in essence considered 0% unemployment because there are always people changing jobs

If that is truly the case, then just simply kicking out the illegals would pose an incredible problem. If that rate truly relates back to 0% and we estimate on the low end that only 500,000 illegals are employed in the US.....who is going to take those 500,000 jobs?

If those numbers are correct, then kicking out the illegals would be one of the worst options.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

So why isn't the economy better with all these resources?

I am no economist, but crooked politicians come to mind (i.e., corruption, as you well said). Individualistic thinking... the lack of a Master Plan to run the Country (every political party has their own agenda, and every time they are in office, they throw down most of what the opposition party did and starts with their own "fresh" idea).

Then why run across the border to the US instead of staying and trying to invoke a change?

Why come here illegally and then hurl charges of racism in the US when our immigration policies are some of the most accommodating anywhere? We just want people to follow our laws.

You will probably see what happens to politicians in the US who go against the will of the people in the elections in coming years.

-

[billvon 3,111]

>Then why run across the border to the US instead of staying and trying to invoke a change?

Because trying to invoke a change is a noble cause, but getting a job in the US feeds your kids.

[Enrique 0]

Quote

Then why run across the border to the US instead of staying and trying to invoke a change?

The last time someone tried something of the sort was 1968 and many people died. (See: La Noche de Tlatelolco)

Quote

We just want people to follow our laws.

And I agree with you. Laws, however strict they are, should be observed by everyone, regardless of their origin. However, walls and guns will not have that effect. I believe converting immigrants into criminals is also not the solution.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

IIRC US unemployment rate is around 4.7% which is in essence considered 0% unemployment because there are always people changing jobs

If that is truly the case, then just simply kicking out the illegals would pose an incredible problem. If that rate truly relates back to 0% and we estimate on the low end that only 500,000 illegals are employed in the US.....who is going to take those 500,000 jobs?

If those numbers are correct, then kicking out the illegals would be one of the worst options.

I disagree. A country that cannot control it's borders is in very deep trouble. I don't personally know of anyone who wants to deny legal immigration from Mexico or SA or any other country for that matter. We just want them to respect and obey our laws.

When the first act someone commits when crossing our borders is to break the law, we must react in such a way as to let them know this won't be tolerated.

For too long our politicians have ignored this problem and many continue to do so even today, even as Americans overwhelmingly object to illegal immigration. Those politicians are going to pay a heavy price during the next elections.

I have written both my Senators, and my House Rep. to let them know I am watching their actions on this matter very closely and that how they vote on this issue is the deal breaker for my vote. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

-

-

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

I disagree. A country that cannot control it's borders is in very deep trouble. I don't personally know of anyone who wants to deny legal immigration from Mexico or SA or any other country for that matter. We just want them to respect and obey our laws.

When the first act someone commits when crossing our borders is to break the law, we must react in such a way as to let them know this won't be tolerated.

For too long our politicians have ignored this problem and many continue to do so even today, even as Americans overwhelmingly object to illegal immigration. Those politicians are going to pay a heavy price during the next elections.

I have written both my Senators, and my House Rep. to let them know I am watching their actions on this matter very closely and that how they vote on this issue is the deal breaker for my vote. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Different things. You are mostly talking about future illegals. I was talking about current illegals. I agree that you want control of your borders and who enters your country. That is one issue.

Secondly there are illegals currently in the US. Of those a fair share actually work. from the numbers taken above, it looks like you have a problem with filling those jobs. I.e. if you kick them all out today, your economy would take a huge hit, since there aren't enough human resources to take over.

Yes, I understand that the sudden demand for labour is going to increase wages, possibly enticing some to enter the labour force again. But do you really think that would happen in enough quantity to fill all the jobs left behind? They aren't the most sought after jobs, no matter what wage.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Then why run across the border to the US instead of staying and trying to invoke a change?

The last time someone tried something of the sort was 1968 and many people died. (See: La Noche de Tlatelolco)

Quote

We just want people to follow our laws.

And I agree with you. Laws, however strict they are, should be observed by everyone, regardless of their origin. However, walls and guns will not have that effect. I believe converting immigrants into criminals is also not the solution.

I believe if we start enforcing our laws and putting criminals in jail instead of just returning them to Mexico for them to try it again and again will have a better effect than rewarding them for breaking our laws by making them citizens. If someone illegal knows they are going to jail for a couple of years, they will think twice about it and if they are coming here illegally to support their families, then going to jail isn't going to be as attractive. Thats the only deterrent to a criminal that seems to have any effect on their behavior.

-

[Enrique 0]

Quote

I believe if we start enforcing our laws and putting criminals in jail instead of just returning them to Mexico for them to try it again and again will have a better effect than rewarding them for breaking our laws by making them citizens.

I agree. You should not make them citizens. Putting them in jail would not suffice.

Quote

If someone illegal knows they are going to jail for a couple of years, they will think twice about it and if they are coming here illegally to support their families, then going to jail isn't going to be as attractive. Thats the only deterrent to a criminal that seems to have any effect on their behavior.

Not when you are hungry. If your family is starving, you are very likely to take the risk, no matter what.



-

[billvon 3,111]

>I believe if we start enforcing our laws and putting criminals in jail
>instead of just returning them to Mexico for them to try it again and again . . .

Who will pay the billions we will need for the hundreds of new jails required?

> will have a better effect than rewarding them for breaking our laws by
>making them citizens.

We don't do that now. Immigration violations count _against_ citizenship.

[Gravitymaster 0]

I'm not suggesting we round up 12 million illegals all at once and ship them back. If we do it in stages and then allow them back in on a guest worker basis as needed, it would work out well.

-

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>I believe if we start enforcing our laws and putting criminals in jail
>instead of just returning them to Mexico for them to try it again and again . . .

Who will pay the billions we will need for the hundreds of new jails required?

> will have a better effect than rewarding them for breaking our laws by
>making them citizens.

We don't do that now. Immigration violations count _against_ citizenship.

Ah, the old "If we can't jail them all, then we can't jail any, huh?

That Sheriff out in Arizona has a pretty good idea about just using tents and putting more up as needed.

-

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Why is it the United States problem that Mexico is such a shithole of corruption and we need to straighten them out? Fuckem!

Because some of our policies, like NAFTA help create the shit hole. For example, they can't farm profitably down there because they can't compete with the US farmers who are subsidized by our Federal government.

[billvon 3,111]

>Ah, the old "If we can't jail them all, then we can't jail any, huh?

Nope, never said that. You're doing the old "if you can't argue the issue, change it before replying" thing.

>That Sheriff out in Arizona has a pretty good idea about just using
>tents and putting more up as needed.

You know, that's a great idea! Build tent cities in the canyons around here. Heck, put em close to farms; then they can work for their room and board. After a while you could cut down on those costly guards (which are the primary cost in a prison) and just have trustees keep an eye on things.

Of course, that's pretty much what we have now, with a lot of added paperwork. But I bet it would make a lot of people feel good that we're kicking those immigrants asses!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

I'm not suggesting we round up 12 million illegals all at once and ship them back. If we do it in stages and then allow them back in on a guest worker basis as needed, it would work out well.

Why not just keep the employed ones and give them a guest worker visa? WOuld prevent some major hiccups in your economy.

[aprilcat 0]

Okay, now that we have reasonable solutions (they make sense to me and seem to be relatively well thought out and fair) what do you propose to do about the illegal Asians and Europeans here?

In Brighton Beach, Brooklyn there are thousands of 'unseen' immigrants. They aren't hard to spot. They are on the schoolyards doing the 'nanny' gig. They do not speak english and for all intents and purposes don't need to learn because the neighborhood is Russian and they can work off the books and collect welfare. You can marry a citizen or have a baby in this country and part ways with your fake SO at the door and go open a restaurant. There is gang activity and you'd damned sure better know where you're going because you can be hurt for being 'American'.

Chinatown is another planet altogether. I just don't patronize the place because it is notorious for keeping their 'serfs' in sweatshops and again, gang violence here is common.

Where are the 'border guards' for these illegals? Do we believe that Mexicans are the only illegals here because they had (the) '___' (fill in the noun or adjective of your choice) to show their faces and be counted when they boycotted their jobs? And what about their jobs? Why not go directly after the companies, hotels, franchises who are hiring these peolpe and fine the DAYLIGHTS out of them for not requiring documentation?

Is this thread or train of thought just 'Mexican Solutions'? Just asking.~~April

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[billvon 3,111]

>what do you propose to do about the illegal Asians and Europeans here?

Basically the same thing. Allow them a means to enter legally more easily. Beef up port security; in places like NYC that means coast guard, harbor patrol and police. Increase enforcement of existing immigration laws, including laws against employing illegal immigrants.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>Ah, the old "If we can't jail them all, then we can't jail any, huh?

Quote

Nope, never said that. You're doing the old "if you can't argue the issue, change it before replying" thing.

Oh, I'm sorry. Just what exactly did you mean when you asked who would pay the billions for new jails?

>That Sheriff out in Arizona has a pretty good idea about just using
>tents and putting more up as needed.

Quote

You know, that's a great idea! Build tent cities in the canyons around here. Heck, put em close to farms; then they can work for their room and board. After a while you could cut down on those costly guards (which are the primary cost in a prison) and just have trustees keep an eye on things.

Yep. After a while when word gets out about the conditions, it might just start to have some effect on whether someone chooses to violate our laws. Isn't that what jail is for? A deterrent to crime?

Quote

Of course, that's pretty much what we have now, with a lot of added paperwork. But I bet it would make a lot of people feel good that we're kicking those immigrants asses!

It would make me feel good to know our laws are being respected. Of course doing it your way plays right into the hands of those who want to eliminate borders all together and instead of having North America, South America etc. just have the continent of America.

-

• Quote

[Gravitymaster 0]

Good post April.

Allowing people into this country illegally leads to them forming a sub culture where they never fully intergrate into American Society because they can obtain employment within their own culture. To me this is one of the biggest problems facing our country in the future. Eventually the sub-cultures become so splintered that it may very well be the downfall of the US as they vote for politician who serve their society.

And yes, I am for controls on ALL Illlegal Immigration. I'm also for drastically raising the penalties for all who employ illegals.


-

[Enrique 0]

Quote

Of course doing it your way plays right into the hands of those who want to eliminate borders all together and instead of having North America, South America etc. just have the continent of America.

We DO just have the continent of America!

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

Of course doing it your way plays right into the hands of those who want to eliminate borders all together and instead of having North America, South America etc. just have the continent of America.

We DO just have the continent of America!

Actually we have two they are called north and south remarkably

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Of course doing it your way plays right into the hands of those who want to eliminate borders all together and instead of having North America, South America etc. just have the continent of America.

We DO just have the continent of America!

I prefer the United States of America.

C'mon Enrique admit it. Many Mexicans want the borders removed because they think the US stole land from them.

-

[Enrique 0]

Quote

C'mon Enrique admit it. Many Mexicans want the borders removed because they think the US stole land from them.

Forget about California, I'll settle for Texas... give it back!

Aprilcat has a good point, though. The only difference is that latinos (not only Mexicans) represent a very large percentage of immigrants in your Country.