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billvon

Immigration solutions

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So there's a lot of discussions about how bad the problem is, how much illegal immigrants suck, how we're going to beat them up etc but not much on how to actually solve the problem. Here's my take on it:

1. Expand our H-2A migrant-worker visa program. Reduce requirements to 'prove' there are no other possible workers to fill the slot. People keep talking about a new migrant-worker program, but we already have one; we should just use it.

2. Massively and immediately increase funding of our border patrol. This is more a national security issue than an immigration issue, but it will help. Start funding UAV and UGV initiatives to automate some of the patrolling; install smart fences where appropriate.

3. Institute mandatory withholding on all H-2A wages, at the highest rate we use now (42%?) Refund 100% of the taxes to the migrant worker when he presents his pay stub and ID at any US embassy in Mexico. Any taxes unclaimed for 1 year go to the Border Patrol.

4. Open many more border checkpoints (with visa processing facilities) so immigrants have a more legal way to cross the border.

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1. Expand our H-2A migrant-worker visa program. Reduce requirements to 'prove' there are no other possible workers to fill the slot. People keep talking about a new migrant-worker program, but we already have one; we should just use it.

4. Open many more border checkpoints (with visa processing facilities) so immigrants have a more legal way to cross the border.



Agreed

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2. Massively and immediately increase funding of our border patrol. This is more a national security issue than an immigration issue, but it will help. Start funding UAV and UGV initiatives to automate some of the patrolling; install smart fences where appropriate.



I like it, but how do we pay for it?

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3. Institute mandatory withholding on all H-2A wages, at the highest rate we use now (42%?) Refund 100% of the taxes to the migrant worker when he presents his pay stub and ID at any US embassy in Mexico. Any taxes unclaimed for 1 year go to the Border Patrol.



Why refund 100%? While they are here they drive on the roads. If they get hurt, they get medical care. I hope you get my point. Why not give them back the difference between the 42% and the tax rate they would normally pay? The difference could go to the Border Patrol. I understand this would be taxation without representation, but they should pay something to use the facilities provided by the US taxpayer.

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>I like it, but how do we pay for it?

Cut current tax breaks for oil companies; that will give us $1.6 billion a year right there. That would double their current operating budget.

>Why refund 100%?

Because it gets them out of the US, and thus eliminates the support we would otherwise give them.

>Why not give them back the difference between the 42% and the
>tax rate they would normally pay?

That would work as well, if implemented in a simple fashion. (i.e. if it takes a 1040 to get any money back it's not going to work.)

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:o I completely agree with you! But I do think that giving ALL the tax back is too much, and I'd add that people on H2A visas who have children here do not get an instant citizen in the family. Of course that brings up more debates...
Oh, hello again!

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>I like it, but how do we pay for it?

Cut current tax breaks for oil companies; that will give us $1.6 billion a year right there. That would double their current operating budget.

>Why refund 100%?

Because it gets them out of the US, and thus eliminates the support we would otherwise give them.

>Why not give them back the difference between the 42% and the
>tax rate they would normally pay?

That would work as well, if implemented in a simple fashion. (i.e. if it takes a 1040 to get any money back it's not going to work.)



The problem I see with it is that all it would take is one "vacation" visit back home to Mexico, and they just got their taxes back. I think giving them back the difference is a better solution, added to Vinny's idea of taxing the wire transfers...
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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>The problem I see with it is that all it would take is one "vacation"
> visit back home to Mexico, and they just got their taxes back.

Correct. Which is a pretty good incentive to go back to Mexico legally, no?

>I think giving them back the difference is a better solution, added
>to Vinny's idea of taxing the wire transfers...

I think the basic idea of having an incentive to get them to follow the rules of a visa program is diluted by taxing everything associated with it. If you're going to add a few percent for the equivalent income tax, then fine. But if you're going to take much of what they made, then they're better off just working illegally an extra year.

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>The problem I see with it is that all it would take is one "vacation"
> visit back home to Mexico, and they just got their taxes back.

Correct. Which is a pretty good incentive to go back to Mexico legally, no?

>I think giving them back the difference is a better solution, added
>to Vinny's idea of taxing the wire transfers...

I think the basic idea of having an incentive to get them to follow the rules of a visa program is diluted by taxing everything associated with it. If you're going to add a few percent for the equivalent income tax, then fine. But if you're going to take much of what they made, then they're better off just working illegally an extra year.



Yes, it's an incentive for them to go back legally...but they don't have to STAY there...that's my point. They could work in the States all year, take a 1 week vacation back to mexico and get a free ride, tax-wise. That's the part I don't agree with.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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>They could work in the States all year, take a 1 week vacation back
> to mexico and get a free ride, tax-wise. That's the part I don't
> agree with.

If it makes them legal, gets them under the visa program, and gets them paying the same taxes an american would pay (which, at those pay levels, is either nothing or a very small percentage) I think it is big win overall.

The problem isn't that there are too many mexicans or anything. The problem is that many of them are here illegally. I think the basis of any immigrant/worker program should be:

1. keep illegal immigrants out
2. allow legal immigrants to come in and work
3. provide incentives to the immigrants on both sides of that equation

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>They could work in the States all year, take a 1 week vacation back
> to mexico and get a free ride, tax-wise. That's the part I don't
> agree with.

If it makes them legal, gets them under the visa program, and gets them paying the same taxes an american would pay (which, at those pay levels, is either nothing or a very small percentage) I think it is big win overall.

The problem isn't that there are too many mexicans or anything. The problem is that many of them are here illegally. I think the basis of any immigrant/worker program should be:

1. keep illegal immigrants out
2. allow legal immigrants to come in and work
3. provide incentives to the immigrants on both sides of that equation



I certainly don't disagree with getting them out from under the radar. But you're arguing against yourself with what you've stated about a tax refund and "gets them paying the same taxes an American would pay".

Give them the H2, tax them, then give them the difference in taxes (not 100%!!) at the end of their visa when they present the expired visa and paystub at the US Consulate in Mexico.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Might want to increase the number of skilled workers we allow in, too:

Forty thousand visas are available in the first preference, EB-1, which covers international managers and executives, outstanding professors and researchers, and people of extraordinary ability.

Why have lower limits for these folks than for grape-pickers?

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> Cut current tax breaks for oil companies; that will give us $1.6 billion a year right there. That would double their current operating budget.

So far you are coming up with some of the best solutions I've heard from any politician. However to the above referenced comment, why can't we also look at cutting the taxes imposed on a gallon of gas by local, state and federal, that would increase our current operation budget.

An excellent post, looking forward to the responses, I also would like to see the cost of putting up a fence that covers the border from Texas to California.

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2. Massively and immediately increase funding of our border patrol. This is more a national security issue than an immigration issue, but it will help. Start funding UAV and UGV initiatives to automate some of the patrolling; install smart fences where appropriate.



That's been done, and it doesn't work. Workplace enforcement with stiff penalties for hiring illegals is the best solution, IMO (the Klinton Administration reduced workplace enforcement to nearly zero, and shifted it to the border - it's been a mess ever since; the illegals know that once they make it past the border, they're home free).

In other words, the Klinton Administration is largely (though not exclusively) to blame for the torrent of illegals that came into my area starting in 1998.

Largely but not entirely to blame. Businesses have been hiring illegals because they're cheap.

They've also been exporting high-payng jobs.

The Middle Class will be non-existent in the USA within a generation unless these two issues are addressed.

mh
"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

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So there's a lot of discussions about how bad the problem is, how much illegal immigrants suck, how we're going to beat them up etc but not much on how to actually solve the problem. Here's my take on it:

1. Expand our H-2A migrant-worker visa program. Reduce requirements to 'prove' there are no other possible workers to fill the slot. People keep talking about a new migrant-worker program, but we already have one; we should just use it.

2. Massively and immediately increase funding of our border patrol. This is more a national security issue than an immigration issue, but it will help. Start funding UAV and UGV initiatives to automate some of the patrolling; install smart fences where appropriate.

3. Institute mandatory withholding on all H-2A wages, at the highest rate we use now (42%?) Refund 100% of the taxes to the migrant worker when he presents his pay stub and ID at any US embassy in Mexico. Any taxes unclaimed for 1 year go to the Border Patrol.

4. Open many more border checkpoints (with visa processing facilities) so immigrants have a more legal way to cross the border.


___________________________________

Seriously! Have you considered sending your ideas to your Congressman? I would add: Enforce 'stiff' fines for hiring illegals. After X number of offenses by an employer, mandatory 5-yrs. prison sentence. Get rid of our present 'catch/release system we have now.
I think that your ideas are more reasonable than anything I've heard out of the Congress or Senate.
No matter what the end result of any 'new' immigration laws, someone is going to be up-set. That's the way it goes. What it boils down to is, we have to do something about the long ignored problem and tighten border security.


Chuck

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There's an article in this month's Texas Monthly about how the Del Rio/Eagle Pass area has cut down on illegal immigrants. I haven't finished it yet, but I'll post a synopsis when I do.

Basically they're enforcing the law; they are using the jails, and keeping people in jail until deported, rather than the "catch and release" program. While at first there was a problem with capacity, the flow has gone down very significantly. Of course, there are other areas with an increase right now, but they're not necessarily adjacent.

It's not a punish-them approach; it's simply an enforcement of the law, and making sure that people realize that there are long-term consequences if they're caught more than once.

The current quotas are pretty tough, though. My hairdresser is Vietnamese; she's been here for a long time. She has had her sister on the list for sponsored immigration for 18 years now. It's not that surprising that people would lose hope eventually.

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Good for her! Sure, she has been waiting, all these years but, she is going about it the right way. I just think it is so wrong for folks to enter illegally and demand 'their rights' in this country. I've listened to the speeches made by illegals at their rallies, lately. They really twist the truth. The laws are there... they need to be enforced. Like you stated... none of this 'catch and release' stuff. This isn't about bass fishing.


Chuck

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or how about kill income tax and increase sales tax to say 10-13 % , increase spending on education so people americans won't feel threatened about losing minimum wage jobs , and stop government funding of the war in irag, let the parties that support the war( bussines and private).

the fence idea is cute...ask the chinese and germans about the wall thing and how well it works..... and the jews in 10 years.

or we could just deport anyone in this country who can not trace their family back to being here at the signing of the decleration of independance....
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people see me as a challenge to their balance

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>I would add: Enforce 'stiff' fines for hiring illegals.

Yeah, those laws are on the books now but are not being enforced. More effort there would help as well. Problem will be that that's a huge voting bloc that no one wants to anger (small business owners.) It will also, at least in the short term, result in higher food prices.

But the solution to this problem is going to require a multi-pronged approach; enforcing labor laws will probably have to be part of it, even if it is politically difficult.

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Agreed!

Immigration should be "easy in and easy out."

Short term visas should be easy to get, with little more than a quick check for criminal records.

Maybe double-tax legal immigrants, but only remit half when they surrender their visa to an American embassy (outside the USA).
The first time they are late in surrendering their visa, they should be banned - from re-entering the USA - for two years. The second visa offense would entail a five year penalty and the third offense should include a life-time penalty.

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