SpeedRacer 1 #26 May 3, 2006 QuoteLets try gun control. Quote Libertarians, like other Americans, want to be able to walk city streets safely and be secure in their homes. We also want our Constitutional rights protected, to guard against the erosion of our civil liberties. In particular, Libertarians want to see all people treated equally under the law, as our Constitution requires. America's millions of gun owners are people too. Law-abiding, responsible citizens do not and should not need to ask anyone's permission or approval to engage in a peaceful activity. Gun ownership, by itself, harms no other person and cannot morally justify criminal penalties. Again, not exactly the position advocated by many DZ.Com Libertarians (Liberals) is it? Actually it is. I've seen very few people on this website who want to erode the 2nd Ammendment, & those that do, do not call themselves libertarians. I'm surprised that you wrote that actually. It seems to me that the vast majority of posts (re. guns)on this website FAVOR the right to bear arms. I have seen very few "gun grabbers" on this forum. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #27 May 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteLets try gun control. Quote Libertarians, like other Americans, want to be able to walk city streets safely and be secure in their homes. We also want our Constitutional rights protected, to guard against the erosion of our civil liberties. In particular, Libertarians want to see all people treated equally under the law, as our Constitution requires. America's millions of gun owners are people too. Law-abiding, responsible citizens do not and should not need to ask anyone's permission or approval to engage in a peaceful activity. Gun ownership, by itself, harms no other person and cannot morally justify criminal penalties. Again, not exactly the position advocated by many DZ.Com Libertarians (Liberals) is it? Actually it is. I've seen very few people on this website who want to erode the 2nd Ammendment, & those that do, do not call themselves libertarians. I'm surprised that you wrote that actually. It seems to me that the vast majority of posts (re. guns)on this website FAVOR the right to bear arms. I have seen very few "gun grabbers" on this forum. Socialized Healthcare is a better example, although John Rich might have a better perspective about detractors of the 2nd Amendment. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #28 May 3, 2006 I am a conservative, but have been known to vote liberal. Sometimes change is good. When one party stays in power too long, the chances of fraud and mismanagement get to high....in a limited party structure, it is time to vote for the other party... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #29 May 3, 2006 QuoteWhen one party stays in power too long, the chances of fraud and mismanagement get to high....in a limited party structure, it is time to vote for the other party. well, how about when TWO parties stay in power too long?? maybe it's time to vote for a third, especially if you feel that the dems & reps have had their time & seem to be continuing to expand the govenrment, each according to their own agendas. Maybe after all this time with the "Big Government" parties in power, it is now time to prune the government back a little bit. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #30 May 3, 2006 Quotewell, how about when TWO parties stay in power too long?? Then it is time to ensure that the leadership within a party changes significantly. Certainly not something that has happened in the current administration. It is almost completely a rehash of an earlier administration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,600 #31 May 3, 2006 QuoteIt is almost completely a rehash of an earlier administration.This is a very imperial administration. And people who like their leaders to exhibit the trappings of power (a significant number) kind of like it that way. It's kind of like they bask in the reflected glory or something, forgetting that the light is shining in their eyes. I'm not sure we can have something else. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #32 May 4, 2006 A Libertarians is not a Liberal. In the classical sence a liberatarain would be conservative. Of course this would mean that they would like to have a more literal interpretation as to what the constitution says. Where as Liberals are most likely to want more goverment programs to help people. More goverment programs means bigger goverment which is not a Libratarian ideal.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #33 May 4, 2006 UM, I thought a "classical" liberal believes in a laissez faire government. so many modern "liberals" are not "classical" liberals at all. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #34 May 4, 2006 Modern liberals are pussies.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #35 May 4, 2006 ..and the ants in my kitchen are a bunch of lazy freeloading illegal aliens. oops, wrong thread. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 644 #36 May 5, 2006 Good point. I prefer to think of libertarians as conservatives who like to think for themselves. For example, I may agree with many conservative opinions, but I stubbornly refuse to pay Rush Limbaugh to do my thinking for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 644 #37 May 5, 2006 No way. While I may have a "liberal" bias, I did not vote for the Liberal Party of Canada during the last two federal elections. A majority of Canadians voted against the Federal Liberals in an attempt to stop their miss-use of public funds. On the other hand, I voted for the BC Liberal Party during the last BC Provincial election because we had to stop the - incumbent - DP Party from spending public money faster than a drunken sailor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #38 May 5, 2006 Quote anway, I'm seriously thinking about switching to the Libertarian Party. Still trying to decide, but it looks like with the Republicans/Democrats we're just getting the same old crap. Big Bloated Government, both in foreign and domestic policies. I don't agree with absolutely everything in the Libertarian platform, but over all it seems to be a bit closer to what I believe than the two big fat parties. That's how I ended up there. My order of preference is libertarian > democrat > republican, with votes going to each of those parties and occasional bones to independents. Edit to answer the question: I guess most folks would call me disloyal to any particular political party. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #39 May 5, 2006 It seems to me that a LOT of people are not in complete Lock-step agreement with their political parties on absolutely EVERY issue. Often it is impossible to be that way: Among the Democratic leaders, there is no one consensus on Iraq: Dean was against the invasion, Lieberman for it, Kerry was for it, but would have waited for inspectors to finish, Clinton is for it... anyway, don't wanna go off on a tangent about Iraq, it's just to prove the point how unlikely it is to find ANY party in which you're going to get everyone to agree about EVERYTHING. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbo 0 #40 May 5, 2006 I love when the "liberals" on TV refer to Libertarians and "Conservative - Libertarians" and the Conservatives refer to us as "Liberal-Libertarians". I have been oriented towards this party since the mid late 70's and have not voted for a national candidate from the other parties since that time. Anyone who agrees lockstep with all the issues as espoused by any party needs to learn to think for themselves a little more. Something most Americans have lost the ability to do some time ago. So come join our "party" and feel welcome, just remember you gotta share what you bring Rainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #42 May 6, 2006 Taken this quiz yet? http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html Only 10 questions-- "Take the Quiz now and find out where you fit on the political map!"Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #43 May 6, 2006 QuoteTaken this quiz yet? http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html Only 10 questions-- "Take the Quiz now and find out where you fit on the political map!" Uh, oh.. It says I'm a Libertarian 60% Personal, 90% Economic. Can't be true, everyone knows I'm an Ultra-Righty. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niolosoiale 0 #44 May 6, 2006 QuoteA Libertarians is not a Liberal. In the classical sence a liberatarain would be conservative. Of course this would mean that they would like to have a more literal interpretation as to what the constitution says. Where as Liberals are most likely to want more goverment programs to help people. More goverment programs means bigger goverment which is not a Libratarian ideal. Libertarians are inherently liberal when it comes to rights. Pro-Choice <> Compassionate Conservative. I'm liberal in my human rights standpoint and moderate when it comes to government. I don't want big government, I want effective government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #45 May 7, 2006 QuoteLibertarians are inherently liberal when it comes to rights. Pro-Choice <> Compassionate Conservative. I'm liberal in my human rights standpoint and moderate when it comes to government. I don't want big government, I want effective government. Actually, "social liberal" is not a valid example of the Libertarian ideal. A social liberal (eg "liberal") would want a law saying "abortion is legal", a social conservative would want a law saying "abortion is illegal". A Libertarian would say that there should be no law on the matter at all, and that you should mind your own f**k**g business. That's the real difference.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #46 May 7, 2006 Quote(A) A social liberal (eg "liberal") would want a law saying "abortion is legal", (B) a social conservative would want a law saying "abortion is illegal". (C) A Libertarian would say that there should be no law on the matter at all, and that you should mind your own f**k**g business. That's the real difference. I disagree with your analysis. The libertarian would definitely want a guarantee for the legality of abortions. It might not be a narrow proscription against making abortion itself illegal. Instead it would speak more broadly to the legality of most things. The liberal wants a narrow law so they can write lots of other narrow laws without the hindrance of principle. The conservative is exactly the same. Speaking just of abortion however, the practical result is interesting: (A) Liberal: Everyone can have abortions (B) Conservative: No one can have abortions (C) Libertarian: Everyone can have abortions Which seems to support the original contention that the libertarian and the social liberal have much in common. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #47 May 7, 2006 QuoteQuote(A) A social liberal (eg "liberal") would want a law saying "abortion is legal", (B) a social conservative would want a law saying "abortion is illegal". (C) A Libertarian would say that there should be no law on the matter at all, and that you should mind your own f**k**g business. That's the real difference. I disagree with your analysis. The libertarian would definitely want a guarantee for the legality of abortions. A Libertarian does not want any legislation from the federal government short of National Defense and International Relations/Trade. A Libertarian wants the government out of the whole picture. State laws would be more prevalent and even then, I think many would prefer the states stay out of it too, let localities do it themselves. QuoteWhich seems to support the original contention that the libertarian and the social liberal have much in common. In a "practical" sense yes, but not "political" sense. No one's going to be gathering with another to roast marshmallows on the fire together.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #48 May 7, 2006 QuoteA Libertarian does not want any legislation from the federal government short of National Defense and International Relations/Trade. A Libertarian wants the government out of the whole picture. State laws would be more prevalent and even then, I think many would prefer the states stay out of it too, let localities do it themselves. I'm going to patiently try one more time even though your behavior recently has diminished my confidence that you're sincere. The law the libertarian would desire would prohibit government(s) from claiming jurisdiction in the future. Much like the oft-ignored tenth amendment. Libertarian ideals have no objection to laws which prohibit governments from claiming anti-libertarian perogatives. To claim otherwise is just pedantic. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #49 May 7, 2006 I dunno, Gawain... I think this Quote(C) A Libertarian would say that there should be no law on the matter at all, and that you should mind your own f**k**g business. ..would be closer to: (c) Do it if you want, don't do it if you want, but don't try to tell anyone else they can or can't... It's a small difference, but an important one, I think..Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #50 May 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteA Libertarian does not want any legislation from the federal government short of National Defense and International Relations/Trade. A Libertarian wants the government out of the whole picture. State laws would be more prevalent and even then, I think many would prefer the states stay out of it too, let localities do it themselves. I'm going to patiently try one more time even though your behavior recently has diminished my confidence that you're sincere. Before you decide to snub me with your arrogance and patronization, why don't you read what I wrote: "would prefer the states stay out of it too, let localities do it themselves." Libertarian positions believe in individual sovereignty over all else, free from government interference. If you read the Platform of the Libertarian Party at www.lp.org, you'll notice that the transitional action they'd take if elected state things like "end of" and "repeal all laws" and so on. QuoteLibertarian ideals have no objection to laws which prohibit governments from claiming anti-libertarian perogatives. To claim otherwise is just pedantic. Some may see it as interference from government though. The very preamble of the Party platform states the very ideal.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
