US Health Care Sucks

[Zipp0 1]

From the article:

"At every point in the social hierarchy there is more illness in the United States than in England and the differences are really dramatic," said study co-author Dr. Michael Marmot, an epidemiologist at University College London in England.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060502/ap_on_he_me/sick_america

Zipp0

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[jkm2500 0]

I think that "people are less healthy is the US" is a better tag line.

US health care is excellent. The problem is that people over-eat, under exercise, drink too much, smoke too much. Another problem, and the reason that so much money is spent per capita in the US, is the amount of medical malpractice insurance. Another problem is that more and more people use the ER as primary care, so that they dont have to take time off of work to go to the doctor. The ER is a lot more expensive than going to an office visit. ANd then to top it off, the high cost of drugs. But, that isnt all the reasons, just a few. Bottom line is that US health care doesnt suck.

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[kelpdiver 2]

guess they skipped over dental health.

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weird study - only looked at whites in the near retirement age bracket. Nothing in the results is really remarkable.

[Zipp0 1]

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guess they skipped over dental health.

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LOL. Harsh.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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US health care is excellent. The problem is that people over-eat, under exercise, drink too much, smoke too much.

When the model was adjusted for those factors (ie smoking rates or similar, americans are more obese, yet Brits drink more) the americans were still less healthy.

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Another problem, and the reason that so much money is spent per capita in the US, is the amount of medical malpractice insurance.

Which could be an indication that US doctor's make more mistakes

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Another problem is that more and more people use the ER as primary care, so that they dont have to take time off of work to go to the doctor. The ER is a lot more expensive than going to an office visit. ANd then to top it off, the high cost of drugs.

Right, those all have to do with money. Yet theyhave no immeiate bearing on the level of health care.

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Bottom line is that US health care doesnt suck.

A scientific study doesn't really agree with your non-scientific rant.

[lawrocket 3]

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Another problem is that more and more people use the ER as primary care, so that they dont have to take time off of work to go to the doctor. The ER is a lot more expensive than going to an office visit. ANd then to top it off, the high cost of drugs.

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Right, those all have to do with money. Yet theyhave no immeiate bearing on the level of health care.

Actually, it may have more of an effect than you think. Part of the issue with health care is seeing the same doctor every time. When you have your own general practitioner, that doctor can monitor your progress over the years.

When the ER is the treating physician, you only go to the ER when there is a fairly big problem, i.e., sore throat, broken bone, etc. You dont' get a yearly physical at the ER. You don't have your blood sugars monitored. You do get treatment for your sore throat, though.

As a result, preventive care and health maintenance is tossed aside. Marginal conditions that, if treated, would not be so tough become major problems when undiagnosed and untreated. Often, people don't find out they are diabetic, for example, until they are wheeled in in an ambulance after having suffered sudden loss of consciousness - maybe while driving a car. Or, when they have that wound that wouldn't heal and now needs an amputation. at the very least, that person may have developed associated kidney problems and neuropathy that are severe.

ER's get to deal with that stuff, and it adds to the expense. Maybe had the person had a physical five years previously then the problem could have been identitified and easily treated at that time.

But, people don't want to pay for the doctor (another reason for ER's - they HAVE to treat you and hopefully get paid.

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Another problem, and the reason that so much money is spent per capita in the US, is the amount of medical malpractice insurance.

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Which could be an indication that US doctor's make more mistakes (I don't think that is teh case, but the amount of mal practice insurance really has no measure on the level of health care)

Or, it could also be an indicator of more advanced and more expensive technologies, more availability of treatment to people, or it could be issues with the massive administrative requirements for payment.

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Bottom line is that US health care doesnt suck.

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A scientific study doesn't really agree with your non-scientific rant.

It doesn't mean it sucks or doesn't. Another reason for our health issues may be the lack of proactive approach to health, or even a more rigorous work ethos. All of these take their tolls.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Actually, it may have more of an effect than you think. Part of the issue with health care is seeing the same doctor every time. When you have your own general practitioner, that doctor can monitor your progress over the years.

When the ER is the treating physician, you only go to the ER when there is a fairly big problem, i.e., sore throat, broken bone, etc. You dont' get a yearly physical at the ER. You don't have your blood sugars monitored. You do get treatment for your sore throat, though.

As a result, preventive care and health maintenance is tossed aside. Marginal conditions that, if treated, would not be so tough become major problems when undiagnosed and untreated. Often, people don't find out they are diabetic, for example, until they are wheeled in in an ambulance after having suffered sudden loss of consciousness - maybe while driving a car. Or, when they have that wound that wouldn't heal and now needs an amputation. at the very least, that person may have developed associated kidney problems and neuropathy that are severe.

Couldn't agree with you more. So how come the health care system in the wealthiest country in the world faires so poor against a pink commy health care system?

The richest class in the US barely measured up against the low income segment of the brittish sample. I would think the richest in america have the funding for a family doctor as well as executive physicals. Even I get one of those up here in the Canadian commy health care system.

[jkm2500 0]

Another reason why healthcare costs so much in the UShttp://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=2537000&nav=menu135_2_5

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At Senator Jon Kyle's request, his organization calculated the cost to Arizona hospitals for treating illegal immigrants at 31 million dollars in just one year.

That $31 million would pay for more than the cost of a new trauma center here in the valley.

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

great, but the question isn't why is american healthcare so expensive.

[penniless 0]

Americans have been brainwashed by the US medical establishment to denigrate the healthcare systems in Canada, UK, Sweden, etc. Our healthcare system works primarily to enrich MDs and insurance companies.

Another measure (besides the ones used in this study) is infant mortality. The US compares favorably only with third world countries in infant mortality, and the US is way behind western Europe.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Another measure (besides the ones used in this study) is infant mortality. The US compares favorably only with third world countries in infant mortality, and the US is way behind western Europe.

hyperbole alert

[kelpdiver 2]

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US health care is excellent. The problem is that people over-eat, under exercise, drink too much, smoke too much.

When the model was adjusted for those factors (ie smoking rates or similar, americans are more obese, yet Brits drink more) the americans were still less healthy.

It attempted to correct for some factors. It didn't appear to correct for our bad working habits. And given the narrow spectrum examined, most conclusions would be reaching ones.

Without a doubt the US has the most expensive medical system out there. But there's nothing wrong with the quality of care. The problems lie with the patients. This study attempted to prove otherwise, but it's at best an invitation to investigate further.

It probably points out a long known belief - that the West (and the US in particular) is very good at acute care, rather than long term health care.

[lawrocket 3]

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So how come the health care system in the wealthiest country in the world faires so poor against a pink commy health care system?

I guess the simplest explanation of it from my post is, "Patient attitudes." Here in the US, there is not the same level of protection as in western Europe for a number of things. We have private insurance to cover lost income due to injury. There is government disability but it doesn't pay much. As a result, people have a tendency to check out early and against medical advice. They've got a mortgage to pay, etc., and they simply cannot afford the time off from work. So they go in.

Or, they do not want to take 90 minutes off to go to the doctor.

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I would think the richest in america have the funding for a family doctor as well as executive physicals

We do. And we have the funding for insurance. And we have people who make enough money so that they don't have to use credit cards to get by. It's a matter of choices by the American public how to spend their money. And the American public is notriously short-sighted with things.

It's not the quality of the care given. That's top notch. The problem is with the reception of care.

Quarterbacks take a statistical hit when the receivers drop balls. The QB rating makes the quarterback look worse than he is. But put in some guys who can catch the ball, and the quarterback looks impressive.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,120]

>When the ER is the treating physician, you only go to the ER when
>there is a fairly big problem, i.e., sore throat, broken bone, etc. You
>dont' get a yearly physical at the ER. You don't have your blood sugars
> monitored. You do get treatment for your sore throat, though.

I would also add that since ER's do not turn people away based on inability to pay, many low income people use this as a way to get free (i.e. socialized) medicine. It results in us effectively having a two-tier system - a socialized system for low income people who don't mind giving fake names to the triage nurse, and a capitalistic system for everyone else.

[Hawkins121 0]

The best doctors from canada tend to come to the US to make $$$$$$$$

[Gawain 0]

Written by a Brit...geez.

US healthcare is the best on the planet. The costs are high, but it works. The University Medical schools are rivaled by no one.

Now, the health of US population, that's a whole new story. Yep, there are a bunch of fat-asses around and I hope they get a wake call soon. Discovery Health Channel has enough material to run full hour documentaries on the "morbidly obese". It's absolutely amazing and sad. It's pitiful too, but I have none for the individuals that choose to live that way.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[penniless 0]

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Another measure (besides the ones used in this study) is infant mortality. The US compares favorably only with third world countries in infant mortality, and the US is way behind western Europe.

hyperbole alert

From the US Department of Health and Human Services. See how all those nasty socialized medicine countries fare better than the USA. Even CUBA for goodness sakes. Any claim that the US has the best healthcare in the world is absurd.

[miked10270 0]

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Written by a Brit...geez.

US healthcare is the best on the planet. The costs are high, but it works.

Do you REALLY think that US Health care gives good value?

Look out your medical insurance & pop down to the company office. Admire the big glass skyscraper. Drool over the Mercedes' Lexus & Cadillacs in the senior executives parking lot. Look at how full the parking lot is. Loads of folk working there.

You bought all that. Bought it with the money that the private insurance company took off you and DIDN'T spend on your health!

Imagine the level of health care you COULD have if there wasn't someone in the middle of the patient/medicine market taking a big slice of the money for their own personal profit!

EVERY socialised medical program in the world runs it's equivalent service at less cost per capita than the US - half or less is commonly quoted.

Plus, they don't try and dodge expensive care programs like geriatric care!

Plus, you don't have to worry about if your insurance will pay out (agree) to a course of treatment. That's properly a decision for your doctor, NOT some bloke with his eye on the quarterly profit figures.

Plus, you don't have to worry about losing your health cover along with your job.

Being ill is a singularly crap time to worry about whether the money'll be there to cure you! With Socialised Medicine that question never arises!
Mike.

PS: Personal Example.

Some years ago I broke my ankle skydiving! I later got the treatment I received (at ZERO direct cost) valued by a relevant friend in The US. It came out at $100,000+. What did concern me was that a fair proportion of it (like the 3 ops over 2 years to remove the pins & stuff put in at the first op & the resulting returns to physio) simply wouldn't have been covered by any american insurer! There'd have been enough of a lottery getting most US Health Insurers to pay out on the fact it was a skydiving injury in the first place!

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[kelpdiver 2]

and...? your graph doesn't support the claims you made earlier.

The US is mediocre, not trailing badly, in the first world on this metric. And well ahead of the developing world. As stated elsewhere, we don't live healthy lives. Too many crack babies. (If you compared just the whites of the US to the predominantly white European countries, you'd see the same numbers) Too many people living not very healthy lives and not seeing the doctor. Too many teenage pregnancies. Again, the fault of the people, not of the medical system.

When a friend went into labor at 7 months, I was quite happy that she had our medical system to take care of her.

[Hawkins121 0]

They can drive whatever the fuck they want as long as I pay $10 for the doctor visit and $20 for name brand prescriptions....

[kelpdiver 2]

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US healthcare is the best on the planet. The costs are high, but it works.

Do you REALLY think that US Health care gives good value?

[Lindsey 0]

Honestly. I think it just depnds on who you are. Some folks in the US have access to the BEST healthcare available (you don't see those with means going off to Canada for healthcare). Other people have access to emergency care only.... There are a lot of crack heads out there who definitely skew the results. There are a lot of crackheads who don't get prenatal care who also skew those infant mortality numbers.

I'd still rather be a person with access to healthcare here than the average joe elsewhere.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[miked10270 0]

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They can drive whatever the fuck they want as long as I pay $10 for the doctor visit and $20 for name brand prescriptions....

Bear in mind that under our system, I pay $0 for doctor visits & $0 for prescriptions. $0 for hosptial visits. $0 for operations. $0 for CT & MRI Scans. Etc...

And... Given that my present condition is perhaps chronic, I DON'T have to worry about my "Medical Insurance" NOT BEING RENEWED!!!

I only have to worry about getting better. Not whether I can afford treatment or medication I need! Not whether my insurance company will continue to make a loss on me year after year!

Like I said, being ill is a singularly crap time to have to worry about money!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Here's my explanation:

Americans don't walk enough.


In the UK & Europe, you can often walk to get your daily errands done, or to go to the pub, store, whatever. In much of the USA, you gotta get your fat ass in the car to get anything done.

Key to health = Walking.


Probably more significant than any healthcare disparity. After all, you're already sick when you go to the doctor, aren't you?

Speed Racer
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[mnealtx 0]

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They can drive whatever the fuck they want as long as I pay $10 for the doctor visit and $20 for name brand prescriptions....

Bear in mind that under our system, I pay $0 for doctor visits & $0 for prescriptions. $0 for hosptial visits. $0 for operations. $0 for CT & MRI Scans. Etc...

And... Given that my present condition is perhaps chronic, I DON'T have to worry about my "Medical Insurance" NOT BEING RENEWED!!!

I only have to worry about getting better. Not whether I can afford treatment or medication I need! Not whether my insurance company will continue to make a loss on me year after year!

Like I said, being ill is a singularly crap time to have to worry about money!

Mike.

And how much of your current tax burden goes to pay for that?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
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